Gracie Gold's coaching/choreography

skylark · Jul 21, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
Really it seems that this is more of the same thing we saw last year... just repainted. Did last year really work that well that they want stick with THAT formula? I mean it was better than the 2014-2015 season, but that is not saying much.

The thing that I find with Gracie is that she doesn't make the music her own. The closest I've seen her come is with her 2014 national & olympics programs, the Grieg, which Lori choreographed, and Sleeping Beauty, which Marina choreographed. I've seen so many posts blaming Gracie's problems on Lori's choreography, and by implication Frank's choices. I don't see that at all. She just isn't an expressive skater unless she's doing perfect jumps.

On the triple loop thread, I haven't watched every video but I noticed that with Carolina's Ave Maria and Secret Garden and with Ilia's Liebestraume, it's all about making the music their own.

This is part of why I uber :love:

Ashley. She pretty much makes every piece of music she skates to her own. So much emotional power.

Tolstoj · Jul 24, 2016

skylark said:
The thing that I find with Gracie is that she doesn't make the music her own. The closest I've seen her come is with her 2014 national & olympics programs, the Grieg, which Lori choreographed, and Sleeping Beauty, which Marina choreographed. I've seen so many posts blaming Gracie's problems on Lori's choreography, and by implication Frank's choices. I don't see that at all. She just isn't an expressive skater unless she's doing perfect jumps.

On the triple loop thread, I haven't watched every video but I noticed that with Carolina's Ave Maria and Secret Garden and with Ilia's Liebestraume, it's all about making the music their own.

This is part of why I uber Ashley. She pretty much makes every piece of music she skates to her own. So much emotional power.

I'm pretty convinced this is Frank/Lori's fault, and after rewatching TSL interviews, Alex was right on so many things about Gracie: they wanted to make Gracie a princess but she is not that kind of girl.

She liked her 2013 Gershwin's SP, and she made that piece her own. (but Frank hated so much)

Arriba627 · Jul 24, 2016

Tolstoj said:
I'm pretty convinced this is Frank/Lori's fault, and after rewatching TSL interviews, Alex was right on so many things about Gracie: they wanted to make Gracie a princess but she is not that kind of girl.

She liked her 2013 Gershwin's SP, and she made that piece her own. (but Frank so much)

I just re-watched that TSL interview with Alex about a week ago and found myself wishing Gracie would go back to Alex. Very insightful interview.

skylark · Jul 24, 2016

Tolstoj said:
I'm pretty convinced this is Frank/Lori's fault, and after rewatching TSL interviews, Alex was right on so many things about Gracie: they wanted to make Gracie a princess but she is not that kind of girl.

She liked her 2013 Gershwin's SP, and she made that piece her own. (but Frank so much)

She's said she loved her Grieg SP program that year too. But you and Arriba have made me curious to watch the interview with Alex.

skylark · Jul 24, 2016

Arriba627 said:
I just re-watched that TSL interview with Alex about a week ago and found myself wishing Gracie would go back to Alex. Very insightful interview.

I'm looking for it and can't find it. You're not talking about the 4 min. with Tomoki, are you? I'm sure not. Could you post a link please?

Tavi... · Jul 24, 2016

skylark said:
I'm looking for it and can't find it. You're not talking about the 4 min. with Tomoki, are you? I'm sure not. Could you post a link please?

Alex was TSL's guest commentator for the 2015 World Team Trophy Men's/Ladies' recap, and talked a lot about Gracie (among others) - perhaps that's what they're referring to?

Tolstoj · Jul 24, 2016

Arriba627 said:
I just re-watched that TSL interview with Alex about a week ago and found myself wishing Gracie would go back to Alex. Very insightful interview.

Same feelings.

Especially when he wondered why Frank didn't add (at least) the rippon lutz in her programs (and keep in mind that interview was after 2015 WTT), considering how much judges are rewarding this kind of variations nowadays.

Also her jumps were a little higher before the coach change (you can see clearly on the 3F) and she was able to do different combos like the 3F-3T.

Tolstoj · Jul 24, 2016

skylark said:
I'm looking for it and can't find it. You're not talking about the 4 min. with Tomoki, are you? I'm sure not. Could you post a link please?

(At 20:50 they talks about Gracie)
https://fpdl.vimeocdn.com/vimeo-pro...a9_0x647c0c7c4f32ce7424918f1b3e20e9299f13bd16

Also Gracie thoughts about Alex
https://youtu.be/TKkHA7jIsZg?t=1398

Blades of Passion · Jul 24, 2016

Tolstoj said:
She liked her 2013 Gershwin's SP, and she made that piece her own.

How did she make that piece her own? The music orchestration was annoying, the choreography missed too many of the accents, and her performance to it was generic. The music is constantly going extremely fast, but not so much her (and even at the start when the music has a hold she's doing the opposite and flailing for no apparent reason). There isn't enough character to her movement even aside from not following the music. She's just randomly throwing her arms around and doing the steps as she has been told, without presenting a rhythm or an idea or finishing off many of the movements. The concept of that music might be a better direction for her, but definitely not that choreography and version of it.

skylark · Jul 24, 2016

Tavi... said:
Alex was TSL's guest commentator for the 2015 World Team Trophy Men's/Ladies' recap, and talked a lot about Gracie (among others) - perhaps that's what they're referring to?

thank you for your answer! I'll look at it.

- - - Updated - - -

Tolstoj said:
(At 20:50 they talks about Gracie)
https://fpdl.vimeocdn.com/vimeo-pro...a9_0x647c0c7c4f32ce7424918f1b3e20e9299f13bd16

Also Gracie thoughts about Alex
https://youtu.be/TKkHA7jIsZg?t=1398

thank you!

Arriba627 · Jul 24, 2016

Tolstoj said:
(At 20:50 they talks about Gracie)
https://fpdl.vimeocdn.com/vimeo-pro...a9_0x647c0c7c4f32ce7424918f1b3e20e9299f13bd16

Also Gracie thoughts about Alex
https://youtu.be/TKkHA7jIsZg?t=1398

That's the one. Sorry for my confusing post

Arriba627 · Jul 24, 2016

Tolstoj said:
Same feelings.

Especially when he wondered why Frank didn't add (at least) the rippon lutz in her programs (and keep in mind that interview was after 2015 WTT), considering how much judges are rewarding this kind of variations nowadays.

Also her jumps were a little higher before the coach change (you can see clearly on the 3F) and she was able to do different combos like the 3F-3T.

I did notice the difference in her jumps and wondered if possibly she had a small growth spurt or weight gain and could it have affected her jumps. I know Alex is known as an excellent jump technician. (I am anxious to see if he has helped to improve Shoma's jumps).

skateluvr · Jul 24, 2016

skylark said:
The thing that I find with Gracie is that she doesn't make the music her own. The closest I've seen her come is with her 2014 national & olympics programs, the Grieg, which Lori choreographed, and Sleeping Beauty, which Marina choreographed. I've seen so many posts blaming Gracie's problems on Lori's choreography, and by implication Frank's choices. I don't see that at all. She just isn't an expressive skater unless she's doing perfect jumps.

On the triple loop thread, I haven't watched every video but I noticed that with Carolina's Ave Maria and Secret Garden and with Ilia's Liebestraume, it's all about making the music their own.

This is part of why I uber Ashley. She pretty much makes every piece of music she skates to her own. So much emotional power.

She's a great athlete and beautiful performer. One of the very best America has produced- world class champion who has gotten better every year. If she were a better competitor she would have tons of hardware like Kwan.

skylark · Jul 24, 2016

Arriba627 said:
I just re-watched that TSL interview with Alex about a week ago and found myself wishing Gracie would go back to Alex. Very insightful interview.

Very insightful indeed. He's charming and also so honest. I particularly enjoyed his remarks about Jason. I also enjoyed Jenny's questions about Ashley and Gracie, as she suggested the two may actually be more alike than is commonly thought. The media or the USFSA did promote the differences between the two pretty aggressively.

:eek:

topic: sorry, I'm interested in discussing the interview more but I'll see if I can figure out a more appropriate place.

Spiral · Jul 25, 2016

Tolstoj said:
I'm pretty convinced this is Frank/Lori's fault, and after rewatching TSL interviews, Alex was right on so many things about Gracie: they wanted to make Gracie a princess but she is not that kind of girl.

She liked her 2013 Gershwin's SP, and she made that piece her own. (but Frank hated so much)

It was my favorite of all of Gracie's programs. I could never understand why she changed it or why she changed coaches.

skylark · Jul 25, 2016

Tolstoj said:
(At 20:50 they talks about Gracie)
https://fpdl.vimeocdn.com/vimeo-pro...a9_0x647c0c7c4f32ce7424918f1b3e20e9299f13bd16

Also Gracie thoughts about Alex
https://youtu.be/TKkHA7jIsZg?t=1398

Watched both all through. What struck me was the minute or so in K&C with Alex; she really was a different person. It may be partly that Frank, expectations and fame changed her persona. OR it might be what many adolescent girls go through, a change in self-perception and need to be who others want to see. Also when she talks about making programs their best, it's all tech. Never mentions performance, interpretation, feelings.

mrrice · Jul 25, 2016

I absolutely love listening to Gracie's voice. They can try and try to make her into a princess but, she sounds like one of my dance students. Just a cool, normal young woman. I still don't know which music would be the best for Gracie. IMO, Gracie's performances are linked directly to how she performs technically. When she skates well, she performs like a star. Unfortunately, when she doesn't skate well she doesn't perform well. Like many elite performers, she's a classic perfectionist.

This was one of my favorite performances of Gracie's. She didn't win a medal but, she was so far away from the podium that she could have just tanked and given up and she didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgWWbAktR-w

lyndichee · Jul 25, 2016

mrrice said:
I absolutely love listening to Gracie's voice. They can try and try to make her into a princess but, she sounds like one of my dance students. Just a cool, normal young woman.

Yeah, apart from her figure skating it would hard to discern her instagram from any other teenage/young woman's posts. She likes to sing along to popular music, try new food, take funny pictures with friends, take some nice headshots etc. She's not really a disney princess.

My theory is that Olympic season will be Beauty and the Beast since the movie comes out next year; there will be a whole new soundtrack for Lori to chop up for Gracie. I am a die hard Yuna fan however I think Gracie might be able to pull off a Bond program with her youthful exuberance. I think Gracie just needs some modern and a piece that would be okay for her to smile throughout.

Princessroja · Jul 25, 2016

Oh my goodness, I love that Gershwin program. She looks like a completely different skater and so much happier and freer. I'd love to see that again from her now!

mrrice · Jul 25, 2016

Princessroja said:
Oh my goodness, I love that Gershwin program. She looks like a completely different skater and so much happier and freer. I'd love to see that again from her now!

Can you please post Gracie's Gershwin program. :thank:

Gracie Gold's coaching/choreography

skylark

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Tolstoj

Arriba627

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skylark

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Tavi...

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Blades of Passion

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Arriba627

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lyndichee

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