How to Qualify for Olympic Team Event?

Right my turn to ask a question. I love looking at URs, counting rotations, checking edges etc, but when it comes to spot assignments, I have a devil of a time keeping the numbers straight.

What does Team Australia need to do to get direct-entry spots to the Olympics and not go through Nebelhorn to qualify?

Also, do we know if there is an updated standings list for the Team Event somewhere or do we think this won't be looked at until next year when we actually have to start looking at it? Because I'm actually thinking #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent is a very good possibility (and we were darned closed last time).

karne said:

... What does Team Australia need to do to get direct-entry spots to the Olympics and not go through Nebelhorn to qualify? ...

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Caveat that the ISU has not yet designated which specific international will be used for Olympic qualifying. (Has not named it as Nebelhorn, in other words.)

I think the only possible ways for any country to qualify for Olympic spots are via 2017 Worlds or via the Autumn 2017 international.

karne said:

... Also, do we know if there is an updated standings list for the Team Event somewhere or do we think this won't be looked at until next year when we actually have to start looking at it? Because I'm actually thinking #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent is a very good possibility (and we were darned closed last time).

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No comps so far will count toward Olympic Team Event qualification, AFAIK.

The ones that will count:

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karne said:

... ... I used stuffedwithplushtoys.com to get my plush Black Swan for Max at Worlds. ...

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OMG ... if you mentioned it at the time, I am embarrassed :hopelessness: to say that I didn't notice it. So sweet :luv17:.

I'm trying to figure out minimum placement - so where Brendan, Kailani/Brooklee, Katia and Harley et al need to finish at Worlds. This is very confusing because it depends on the number of spots that the other countries have? Beyond confused now.

ice coverage said:

Caveat that the ISU has not yet designated which specific international will be used for Olympic qualifying. (Has not named it as Nebelhorn, in other words.)

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They had a meeting at Nebelhorn about the qualification event, I have to admit though, that I did not follow the presentation much. But waiting for an official announcement is clearly the best choice.

karne said:

I'm trying to figure out minimum placement - so where Brendan, Kailani/Brooklee, Katia and Harley et al need to finish at Worlds. This is very confusing because it depends on the number of spots that the other countries have? Beyond confused now.

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Yes, my understanding is that it will depend on how many spots in the quota are used up by other countries who earn three spots or two spots.

Two hypothetical examples, if I understand correctly:

The quota for OWG pairs spots via 2017 Worlds is 16 pairs.
So hypothetically, if we pretend that 2017 Worlds results for pairs end up being identical to 2016 (see below), then all 16 spots in the quota via Worlds would be used up.

3 spots each for Canada and Russia = 6 spots
2 spots each for China, Germany, USA, France, Italy = 10 spots

But we obviously cannot assume that 2017 Worlds results will be identical to 2016.




http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028358.htm

But the quota for OWG men's spots via 2017 Worlds is 24.
So hypothetically, if we pretend that 2017 Worlds results for men end up being identical to 2016 (see below), then only 15 of 24 spots in the quota via Worlds would be used up by countries that earn three slots or two slots.

3 spots for Japan
2 spots each for Spain, China, Russia, Canada, USA, Czech Republic = 12 spots

The remaining 9 spots would go to (in order):
Kazakhstan, Italy, Israel, Latvia, Uzbekistan, Belgium, Australia, Philippines, France.

But we obviously cannot assume that 2017 Worlds results will be identical to 2016.




http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028356.htm

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Alex D said:

They had a meeting at Nebelhorn about the qualification event, I have to admit though, that I did not follow the presentation much. But waiting for an official announcement is clearly the best choice.

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Good to know. Thx, Alex .

This is too interesting leave as a reference question!

Wow, the idea that there would only be five or six countries at the pairs event makes me really angry. The Olympics is supposed to be a worldwide thing, not for the elites only.

Don't mind me, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. But humph!

Princessroja said:

Wow, the idea that there would only be five or six countries at the pairs event makes me really angry. The Olympics is supposed to be a worldwide thing, not for the elites only.

Don't mind me, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. But humph!

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That's the spots via Worlds. There's also the qualifying event. There's a total of 20 pairs (40 athletes), a max of which 16 can come from Worlds.

ETA: I checked back at the last 4 Olympics and there's been 12 countries represented in Pairs each year (2014, 2010, 2006, 2002)

Princessroja said:

Wow, the idea that there would only be five or six countries at the pairs event makes me really angry. The Olympics is supposed to be a worldwide thing, not for the elites only.

Don't mind me, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. But humph!

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Uhm, I'm somewhat confused about the intent of this thread.

The title and OP indicate the original reference question concerned the team event at the Olympics. This would be distinct from how many individuals or pairs or dance teams a given country can send which added up together will determine the size of the overall "team" of competitors that represent that country at the Olympics.

Both are important issues. And I agree that the IOC has put at risk the global representativeness of some events to keep down the number of athletes to be housed by host countries. For me, the exclusion of Canada's synchro swim team, the hemispheric champions, in order to give the Americas spot to Brazil as host country was particularly egregious. But I can really get behind the idea that qualifying standards should encourage rather than discourage broader global uptake of various sports.

On the team FS event, I'd like to stress the point that one of the ISU's original objectives in creating the team event was to incent countries to develop strength in all 4 FS disciplines. So, there was a provision in 2014 that allowed countries to include team members that did not qualify for the individual events. I believe that the UK benefitted from this. Not having a pairs team in the pairs event would not necessarily be a barrier, for example, participation in the team event.

And my hope would be that more countries respond to the ISU's encouragement to develop the full set of FS disciplines. (And IMO synchro should be there too. )

Pairs is acknowledged by many to be the most difficult and dangerous of the FS disciplines. The magic of mirroring and simultaneity takes years to develop from all I've read. In this case, it's not unexpected that it would be the discipline with the fewest countries that qualify.

I would note that most of the leading pairs countries have well developed ice dance programs which encourage young skaters to get the experience of skating with a partner (not just a coach) well before they are physically ready for many of the pairs elements. As well, when they are ready for pairs, kids can get the experience of competing in a pairs team as well as individually. In countries like Canada there are a significant number who do both until juniors. (e.g. Julianne Seguin).

I really like that Australia is working to develop all four disciplines in parallel. IMO it it likely to have positive feedback over time that will strengthen all four disciplines. In the long view, countries with this approach it make me positive about pairs. Frankly, I'm more puzzled by some of the leading skating countries that have not put priority on bringing pairs or ice dance up to the levels of their singles.

dorispulaski said:

This is too interesting leave as a reference question!

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TGee said:

Uhm, I'm somewhat confused about the intent of this thread.

The title and OP indicate the original reference question concerned the team event at the Olympics. This would be distinct from how many individuals or pairs or dance teams a given country can send which added up together will determine the size of the overall "team" of competitors that represent that country at the Olympics. ...

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Re the origin of this thread:

karne's post came from the Figure Skating Questions thread.
It was not her intent for it to serve as the OP of a stand-alone thread.

karne's post has two separate questions re the Olympics.

Seems that Doris brought karne's two-pronged post to The Edge for additional discussion.
The thread title -- "How to Qualify for Olympic Team Event?" -- covers the second of the two prongs.
The thread already has had some new discussion of the first prong as well .

Chemistry66 said:

That's the spots via Worlds. There's also the qualifying event. There's a total of 20 pairs (40 athletes), a max of which 16 can come from Worlds.

ETA: I checked back at the last 4 Olympics and there's been 12 countries represented in Pairs each year (2014, 2010, 2006, 2002)

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Thanks Chemistry66. I read the above info as 16 pairs would be it, total, and all of them came from Worlds unless there were extra spots. If there's chances for others to qualify, then I'm content. I wish it were more, but I know there's an athlete limit. I should have remembered that there was 20 pairs last time, but that Olympics was my first foray into the ice skating world, and I knew absolutely nothing at the time!

And TGee, I was just responding to the qualification discussion, not the original post.

Just to super-clarify, my two questions were basically:

1. What do Brendan, Brooklee/Kailani and Katia/Harley need to do in Helsinki to qualify for the Olympics straight up and avoid having to go to Nebelhorn (or whatever the qualifying comp is) next year?

2. The second question was more if we had a current standings of where the various countries were at in regards to the team event at the Olympics (I am not thinking about WTT). Last time round we were the first reserve team. I am hoping we go one better this year. #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

karne said:

Just to super-clarify, my two questions were basically:

1. What do Brendan, Brooklee/Kailani and Katia/Harley need to do in Helsinki to qualify for the Olympics straight up and avoid having to go to Nebelhorn (or whatever the qualifying comp is) next year?

2. The second question was more if we had a current standings of where the various countries were at in regards to the team event at the Olympics (I am not thinking about WTT). Last time round we were the first reserve team. I am hoping we go one better this year. #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

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Do you feel your questions were answered?

ice coverage's replies seemed thorough to me (and gave me some good sources and details) but I could understand some of the details being confusing.

I think Australia has a chance, especially given Great Britain's lack of strong singles skaters (no Jenna McCorkell this time) which may make it difficult to qualify entries in at least three disciplines, which is necessary to make it to the team event.

I do understand now - that basically, we won't know where they have to finish until we actually get to Helsinki (which is kind of unhelpful).

Also that we won't have any idea about who's where for team event until next year.

Last time we were edged out by the Brits, but this time around I feel we are in a much stronger position with more depth in each of the divisions, while the Brits have less. So I'm more optimistic that #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent could be a reality.

was korea ahead of australia for sochi? i doubt so... they probably could be this time around, and anyways will qualify as home team so that's one less spot... I think you are correct that UK may not be a big threat for 2018, but you have to look at the other countries that weren't there and making their moves.... What about Kazhakstan for instance? etc etc

karne said:

I do understand now - that basically, we won't know where they have to finish until we actually get to Helsinki (which is kind of unhelpful).

Also that we won't have any idea about who's where for team event until next year.

Last time we were edged out by the Brits, but this time around I feel we are in a much stronger position with more depth in each of the divisions, while the Brits have less. So I'm more optimistic that #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent could be a reality.

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ETA I checked... Korea wasn't in Sochi. So indeed, now Australia is one team further down. From looking at wiki

Canada
China
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Japan
Russia
Ukraine
United States

those were the teams that made it... From there, UK may be out... but I think that all the other teams are still ahead of Australia, except perhaps Ukraine.

Now, all you need to do is check about some other teams who may be stronger this time around like Kazhakstan or Israel as mentioned.

Then pray very hard for helsinki

4everchan said:

was korea ahead of australia for sochi? i doubt so... they probably could be this time around, and anyways will qualify as home team so that's one less spot... I think you are correct that UK may not be a big threat for 2018, but you have to look at the other countries that weren't there and making their moves.... What about Kazhakstan for instance? etc etc

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Yes, South Korea was ahead of Australia for Sochi in terms of total points. However, a country has to qualify spots in at least 3 disciplines to compete in the team event (which they did not in Sochi) and it remains to be seen if Korea can qualify a pairs or dance team. Even if they got host-country spots in those disciplines, they don't get a Team Event spot unless they outright qualify for it by the normal procedures, via the qualification rules.

These “host country place” skaters will only compete in the individual events. It is important to note
that these host country places do not automatically constitute a team for the host country in the
Team event unless the host country qualifies for the Team event through the normal qualification
process as described in D.3

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Kazakhstan could fall victim to the same issue. They have some strong singles skaters in Ten and Tursynbaeva, but pairs and dance?

Australia's still not in for sure, but given Alexandrovskaya/Windsor's recent success I could see them in contention for one of the spots if they progress over the rest of this season and next.

Of course, Korea and Kazakhstan (and/or other countries) could continue to develop pairs and dance. But right now it's a game of "wait and see"

thanks, i thought Korea would get automatically in as a host country like it happens usually.

They have at least one promising pair team which I saw at ACI.
Israel seems most likely I guess.

Chemistry66 said:

Yes, South Korea was ahead of Australia for Sochi in terms of total points. However, a country has to qualify spots in at least 3 disciplines to compete in the team event (which they did not in Sochi) and it remains to be seen if Korea can qualify a pairs or dance team. Even if they got host-country spots in those disciplines, they don't get a Team Event spot unless they outright qualify for it by the normal procedures, via the qualification rules.



Kazakhstan could fall victim to the same issue. They have some strong singles skaters in Ten and Tursynbaeva, but pairs and dance?

Australia's still not in for sure, but given Alexandrovskaya/Windsor's recent success I could see them in contention for one of the spots if they progress over the rest of this season and next.

Of course, Korea and Kazakhstan (and/or other countries) could continue to develop pairs and dance. But right now it's a game of "wait and see"

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4everchan said:

thanks, i thought Korea would get automatically in as a host country like it happens usually.

They have at least one promising pair team which I saw at ACI.
Israel seems most likely I guess.

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Does Israel have a lady who will qualify? Granted, it's early in the morning so my brain may be blocking information, but I'm not sure?

You seem to be looking for ways to keep Australia out at all costs. What are you afraid of?

karne said:

Does Israel have a lady who will qualify? Granted, it's early in the morning so my brain may be blocking information, but I'm not sure?

You seem to be looking for ways to keep Australia out at all costs. What are you afraid of?

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LOL!!! I am afraid you may be disappointed!!!! Especially since you are out of vegemite! The only thing that will really disappoint me is if Canada doesn't win a medal...

Israel went to worlds in pairs, dance and men last year. Their dance and men would collect good points if they do as well as expected... pairs, should be around the same as the Australian pair that did so well this weekend. Ladies, Aimee Buchanan placed 31st at Europeans... so yeah.. it may be a long shot for them... from looking quickly, the Czechs may have a chance.

ETA : I think it would be more interesting to have a team from Australia rather than another European team. It's good for the sport to expand its geographic horizons. I am just looking at what team would possibly be in the way of a qualification as it is a tough field. Who knows, perhaps Japan won't even have a pairs team and will not be there???? That would open a big door!

karne said:

Does Israel have a lady who will qualify? Granted, it's early in the morning so my brain may be blocking information, but I'm not sure?

You seem to be looking for ways to keep Australia out at all costs. What are you afraid of?

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Israel has a few ladies that theoretically could, though how likely it is remains to be seen. Here's a list of the female skaters representing Israel currently... a few of them are decent. I don't think any of them has a real hope of qualifying outright at the WC but is there an outside chance one of them could qualify at nebelhorn (or whatever the ISU decides is the qualifying event?) Yeah, I think so. http://www.goldenskate.com/directories/skater-directory/figure-skaters-and-ice-dancers-from-israel/