Half of World Top Ten Out of Ladies Worlds

zanadude · Feb 19, 2017

A whopping five out of ten of the ladies in the top ten of the ISU standings will not be invited to compete in the World Championships, leading me to wonder just what world they're living in.

I'd like to see World Championships modified so that all of the Top 10 are given wildcards to compete if they do not qualify for any other reason, and compel nations to put top ten competitors on their national teams.

TontoK · Feb 19, 2017

Interesting, but here's another take on it.

Skaters rise to the Top 10 on the basis of consistent scoring and results over the course of a couple of years (if I am remembering correctly).

If you reserve spots for them, you are denying up-and-comers who do not have long international senior careers, but are perfectly capable of beating them like a drum.

If they''re good enough to be Top 10 in the world, then they should be able to earn their spots.

I suppose the other reason might be multiple skaters from the same country, and the only way around that is to alter the max entries per country.

karne · Feb 19, 2017

Oh goody, my favourite stupid argument coming from people with their big-country privilege!

The big countries can have three spots already. That's quite enough, thankyou.

4everchan · Feb 19, 2017

i am perfectly fine not having more than 3 russians at the WC. These rules were created to promote the sport outside bigger nations. It makes it exciting in federations that are strong (look at the Canadian ladies this year... it has been a very thrilling season because only 2 out of very capable 3 could qualify).
I prefer having the opportunity of seeing skaters we never see otherwise, like we just saw at 4CC with some interesting men that we barely see during the year, rather than seeing all the same skaters we see all fall during the GP season. If they cannot qualify at their home nationals, well, that's unfortunate.

Also, TontoK has a very important point. World rankings are done over a couple season.... someone can be world champion a year but struggle the next year... on what basis should that skater go to worlds???

VIETgrlTerifa · Feb 19, 2017

And don't you think federations could cheat the system by making sure skaters who were already in the top ten not compete at Nationals (due to injury or what-not) and therefore use 3 spots on other skaters while still letting their skaters who are already in the top 10 compete as well?

Osmond4gold · Feb 19, 2017

karne said:
Oh goody, my favourite stupid argument coming from people with their big-country privilege!

The big countries can have three spots already. That's quite enough, thankyou.

And why should the Aussie swimmers, have so many athletes in Olympic and World championships, Karne, for a population of 25 million. Maybe because, they earned it?

zanadude · Feb 19, 2017

TontoK said:
Interesting, but here's another take on it.

Skaters rise to the Top 10 on the basis of consistent scoring and results over the course of a couple of years (if I am remembering correctly).

If you reserve spots for them, you are denying up-and-comers who do not have long international senior careers, but are perfectly capable of beating them like a drum.

I'm saying to expand the field to accommodate them. Like what was done for the 2015 Grand Prix Finals, or golf majors. Then nobody's spot is taken.

If they''re good enough to be Top 10 in the world, then they should be able to earn their spots.

I suppose the other reason might be multiple skaters from the same country, and the only way around that is to alter the max entries per country.

Or BS political reasons.

zanadude · Feb 19, 2017

VIETgrlTerifa said:
And don't you think federations could cheat the system by making sure skaters who were already in the top ten not compete at Nationals (due to injury or what-not) and therefore use 3 spots on other skaters while still letting their skaters who are already in the top 10 compete as well?

You would compel the nations to select a top ten skater on their regular team, regardless of Nationals results.

4everchan · Feb 19, 2017

you know... in many sports, only 1 or 2 athletes, IF they meet their federation's standards can go to major events... all combat sports for instance, will have room for only 1 athlete per country.

I am sure that Japanese Judo would like to bring more than one athlete by category ... but they cannot. So, in light of that, having 3 skaters per country as a maximum is quite generous.

How long do you want the events to last? i spent a whole weekend on 4CC.... and worlds has more athletes....

karne · Feb 19, 2017

Osmond4gold said:
And why should the Aussie swimmers, have so many athletes in Olympic and World championships, Karne, for a population of 25 million. Maybe because, they earned it?

We're a big country when it comes to swimming and they allocate spots differently. I can't make a call on swimming. Maybe it would be better if there were only a limited number of spots in swimming, then our swimmers wouldn't become such arrogant brats. But swimming is also a completely objective sport. You swim, you race, you touch the wall, you get a time. You don't get a score for style of your stroke. So, less political BS. But in skating, the little countries are hurt by the scoring all the time.

zanadude said:
I'm saying to expand the field to accommodate them. Like what was done for the 2015 Grand Prix Finals, or golf majors. Then nobody's spot is taken.

But the little countries' spots are automatically taken because they face a harder fight to get the scores they deserve. You flood Worlds with ten ladies from a big country and you're automatically going to make life harder for the little country ladies who can't get the higher scores because of the flag next to their name.

mrrice · Feb 19, 2017

karne said:
Oh goody, my favourite stupid argument coming from people with their big-country privilege!

The big countries can have three spots already. That's quite enough, thankyou.

Plus, you never who could be the next big thing. Monica Puig, is a Tennis Player from Puerto Rico. Her current ranking is #48. and she defeated Germany's, Angie Kerber to win the OGM in Tennis. With a ranking of 48. Monica would not have made it out of the qualifying round in skating. The possibility of Making it to Worlds is a strong motivating factor for many athletes and if we remove that motivation, I believe the sport will suffer.

4everchan · Feb 19, 2017

karne said:
We're a big country when it comes to swimming and they allocate spots differently. I can't make a call on swimming. Maybe it would be better if there were only a limited number of spots in swimming, then our swimmers wouldn't become such arrogant brats. But swimming is also a completely objective sport. You swim, you race, you touch the wall, you get a time. You don't get a score for style of your stroke. So, less political BS. But in skating, the little countries are hurt by the scoring all the time.

But the little countries' spots are automatically taken because they face a harder fight to get the scores they deserve. You flood Worlds with ten ladies from a big country and you're automatically going to make life harder for the little country ladies who can't get the higher scores because of the flag next to their name.

i can answer this.. former swimmer here..

EACH nation can send 2 athletes MAXIMUM per race. Canada is quite hardcore as an athlete has to have a time standard which is very elitist to be at the games, and be top 2 in Canada at the time trials... so even with being able to send 2 athletes, often only 1 athlete will compete in a race...

Other countries have similar processes.... but in the end ONLY 2 swimmers per country can participate in a race.

Then... prelims : only the top 16 will qualify... semis, top 8... then the final where those best 8 have a shot for the podium. So it's a completely different process and it's based on TIME.

However, one could say, and we have had examples of that, that some nations have more than 2 great swimmerrs per race.... and we see it in the relays when a team is so dominant that their 3rd or 4th swimmer is pretty much of the same quality as the best swimmer from another nation.

So in light of that, I believe that figure skating is quite good.

You have to qualify first by getting your TES minimums, so at least, no spots will be given to skaters who are really not ready to go, just for the sake of representing I don't know... the BOBO Islands (made up country).

You have to qualify in your country.

Every country has at least 1 spot available, then, some get 2 or 3 depending on results at previous worlds. So I think that figure skating gives even more of a chance to countries who are already on top of the food chain.

Osmond4gold · Feb 19, 2017

Same with curling (don't laugh, you should try it sometime - talk about fun!). Canada has 8 of the best 10 teams in the world in all disciplines (Ladies, Mens, Mixed, Seniors), yet are only allowed to send one team to Worlds per discipline. If that team, has the flu or an off day, guess what, ...no podium finishes. Life is like that sometimes.

tinnychan · Feb 19, 2017

If you use the season best, you will find it a lot better. Only two will not skate in WC. Elena /Maria will suffer the limitation of spots. Alina will simply not age-eligible(She will skate in WJC instead).

Current ISU standings consider three season results, it sometime save "old" skater.

Skater Boy · Feb 19, 2017

Life isn't fair. We all have different perspectives.I am not sure or what the answer is. I love seeing the diversity of nationalities. I am not sure that necessarily means we can't have more competitiors. It is kind of sad that a skater like Radinova or other Russians can't go to major championships when they would be considered national threats elsewhere and still could podium. But I am not sure what the answer is.

Also in respect to Canada having three world class skaters I think it is safe to assume they have two and in that two is the long program choker Osmond - though I hope she gets it eventually. Chartrand has consistently been on another planet and not in a good way from Daleman and Osmond.

moriel · Feb 19, 2017

I think that instead of relying on top 10s or whatever, the medalists from previous world should have an invitation outside the regular spots rules.
Simple.

zanadude · Feb 19, 2017

Osmond4gold said:
Same with curling (don't laugh, you should try it sometime - talk about fun!). Canada has 8 of the best 10 teams in the world in all disciplines (Ladies, Mens, Mixed, Seniors), yet are only allowed to send one team to Worlds per discipline. If that team, has the flu or an off day, guess what, ...no podium finishes. Life is like that sometimes.

Why does the existence of defects in other sports prove that such defects should be tolerated in figure skating?

karne · Feb 19, 2017

zanadude said:
Why does the existence of defects in other sports prove that such defects should be tolerated in figure skating?

Limiting the per country spots is NOT a defect! I suppose maybe it could be to those with only a big-country view. Kicking out all the little country skaters to make room for more big country skaters IS a defect.

4everchan · Feb 19, 2017

zanadude said:
Why does the existence of defects in other sports prove that such defects should be tolerated in figure skating?

it is not a defect at all... if Canada were to send 8 teams to the world championship in curling, there would be no world championships.... the sport had a hard time to get accepted into the olympic games because it was mostly a popular thing in N/A and a few countries in Northern Europe. It took a while for Asia to develop the sport to high levels and only when that was done, it reached credibility...

So let's say that in Pairs, Russia, China and Canada were to send 5 teams each... would countries like Australia, South Korea and Japan invest in pairs???

By setting those limits, it leaves room for the sport to have contenders for top ten spots outside the same 3-4 countries, which allows for the sport to plant roots in other regions. This is the only chance figure skating has to develop and remain in the olympic family. Look at the progress of the sport in Japan for instance... it is because some pioneers like Takeshi Honda and those way before him that suddenly their men are shining. The sport is now so popular in Japan.... The sport's popularity is developing also in southern Europe with Javi doing well, as well as Caro.

I am sorry Elena (or insert other name there of your liking) won't be there. But I wouldn't sacrifice a skater from a small nation just to see her compete and probably end up, like at her own Nationals, behind the other girls ahead of her.

Osmond4gold · Feb 19, 2017

^^ It speaks to advancing the sport, and knowing there will always be defects, but complaining after the fact, does nothing to support your argument, given you knew the rules going in.

Be proactive as necessary and not re-active.

Half of World Top Ten Out of Ladies Worlds

zanadude

TontoK

Hot Tonto

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

4everchan

VIETgrlTerifa

Osmond4gold

zanadude

zanadude

4everchan

karne

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mrrice

4everchan

Osmond4gold

tinnychan

Skater Boy

moriel

zanadude

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

4everchan

Osmond4gold

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