2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[usethis2]

Open your eyes, ladies and gentlemen. Fist-pumping and being excited at yourself has little to do with the scores. If at all.

More on The Women's Controversy
Figure Skating Reference: Evaluating Step Sequences

 

[apgold]

Wow... Yuna waited pretty long on the ice before she had to go... Why did Ashley's score take so long to come out?
At least 2:20 minutes before they announced Ashley's score.

I'm assuming it was due to the judges reviewing her jumps to make edge calls, UR, review her two foot landing on her 3-3. Ashley made some funny faces during her waiting time in the K&C too, which was entertaining.

Those fancam videos were interesting, to see the speed, the ice coverage and the form of each skater. I've only seen figure skating on TV or online, so seeing it from the fancam perspective was eye opening to me.

 

[capcomeback]

I think that the passion and emotion were directed at the performance. I felt her emotion through my TV set.
I agree that receiving the same score as Yuna in 2010 is ridiculous, but so was Yuna's score in 2010.
Breaking character in order to wave to the audience is quite common by all skaters...
As for edge calls-I'm no tech specialist, so i'll leave that to them...
That's why I said I think she should have won the bronze...
I do see the argument for her wining gold...

None of the other skaters in the top 10 "broke character". As I said, she skated pissed off. Her emotion was not applied to her program, just her performance. When she had the audience behind her, her mood changed and she started acting giddy. You perform the material. Waving to judges in the middle of an element (unless it makes sense to the program), is not artistic, In Julia's FS in the team event, she didn't do it (and even at fifteen she knew it would be inappropriate).

You don't need to be an expert to see the slow motion replay of the edge call. It was an inside edge equals a "Flip" (or since supposed to be a "Lutz", a flutz). "The experts" had access to all of that equipment and they got it wrong (or cheated). It makes it even more particularly galling because this skater has the reputation for "flutzing and they didn't bother to carefully look at the jump).

 

[RemyRose]

None of the other skaters in the top 10 "broke character". As I said, she skated pissed off. Her emotion was not applied to her program, just her performance. When she had the audience behind her, her mood changed and she started acting giddy. You perform the material. Waving to judges in the middle of an element (unless it makes sense to the program), is not artistic, In Julia's FS in the team event, she didn't do it (and even at fifteen she knew it would be inappropriate).

Yeah except she did the EXACT same thing at Euro's 1 month prior http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3haHNXUR3M. Guess she was pissed then too, then softened up in the middle of that program as well :sarcasm: How do you know they didn't change her choreo to have her waving to the audience/judges/camera?

 

[capcomeback]

Yeah except she did the EXACT same thing at Euro's 1 month prior. Guess she was pissed then too :sarcasm: How do you know they didn't change her choreo to have her waving to the audience/judges/camera?

And she was equally mediocre then too, artistically. How does a wave to judges = choreography on a piece like Habanera by Saint-Saëns? How does riling up the fans = choreo for the piece? She skated an energetic performance with some impressive jumps (and some that weren't so impressive), but there was little artistic merit to it. No musicality (might as well have had ear plugs in her ears the first half), yet she scored higher than Kostner? I'd love to see Adelina improve artistically, but according to some she's already arrived. The rest of us are just sick and annoyed.

 

[CarneAsada]

And she was equally mediocre then too, artistically. How does a wave to judges = choreography on a piece like Habanera by Saint-Saëns?

It's the Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso. A terrible, souped-up muzak version.

 

[capcomeback]

It's the Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso. A terrible, souped-up muzak version.

Oops... My mistake... wrong Saint-Saëns piece. I guess I was distracted by that waving, lol. Still don't understand her choreo and the waving.

 

[Ven]

Lol...the mods first changed from "conspiracy" to "controversy" thread. Now they deleted all 170 pages entirely. Gone...poof!

GS seems to be under pressure.

 

[usethis2]

Unbelievable. Under whose pressure? That is curious.

I am done here.

 

[skatedreamer]

Oops... My mistake... wrong Saint-Saëns piece. I guess I was distracted by that waving, lol. Still don't understand her choreo and the waving.

capcomeback, I agree with a lot of what you've said, but need to take issue on one detail: the "Habanera" is from the opera "Carmen" by Georges Bizet.

CarneAsada, you're sooooooo right -- that version of the Saint-Saëns was simply gawdawful.

Does anyone remember G&G's LP from the '88 Olys? They used a truly heinous muzak version of Mozart (think it included Symphony #40, but not sure). The amazing thing was that their skating was so beautiful that I forgot to hate the muzak. For a few minutes, anyway.

Regards to all from Musicnerdland!

 

[Mathman]

Unbelievable. Under whose pressure? That is curious.

And now it's back! Curious and cursriouser.

 

[CarneAsada]

capcomeback, I agree with a lot of what you've said, but need to take issue on one detail: the "Habanera" is from the opera "Carmen" by Georges Bizet.

CarneAsada, you're sooooooo right -- that version of the Saint-Saëns was simply gawdawful.

Saint-Saëns did write Havanaise, which has elements of the Habanera in it. That may be what cap comeback was thinking of.

I already disliked the Intro & Rondo Capriccioso before the muzak, so Adelina just gave me more reason to hate the piece.

 

[pangtongfan]

Nobody is arguing if they were deserving or not. The fact they might have deserved to win, does not mean there wasn't corruption. What if they had made a noticeable mistake in the Free Dance? They still would have won over a clean V/M, right? Perhaps the Russians were looking to make deals with other federations, that could have included riggage in favor of V/M? And the Americans decided to act first? Who knows?

The point is the corruption is so systemic in the sport, it's not credible, and the ISU doesn't seem to care.

Exactly. That V&T and D&W deserved their gold medals (somewhat arguable in the case of D&W I suppose but most give them the benefit of doubt) is aside the point. The big picture is that it appears the entire Olympic figure skating competition was fixed. All the signs point to that. That is plain wrong, people except the chosen few never had a hope before the event even began.

S&S could have skated cleanly with a clean throw triple axel and still would have lost to V&T even with her missing both throws. D&W could have had a fall on a major element and still beaten a sublime V&M overall given the scoring and the silly rules in ice dance that even allow +1s and +2s on an element you fell on, if the rest of it was executed well enough. Yu Na Kim would have needed both a triple loop and triple axel (essentialy the 8 triples Mao was already trying) to have any chance to beat Sotnikova with a stumble. Shekhovtseva and Balkov, 3 other ex Soviet judges, and a Russian caller all on the judging panel together. All around it doesnt take a brain surgeon to see the insane level of ridiculousness, lack of any credibility or transparency, and unfairness from start to finish around the whole event.

 

[capcomeback]

capcomeback, I agree with a lot of what you've said, but need to take issue on one detail: the "Habanera" is from the opera "Carmen" by Georges Bizet.

CarneAsada, you're sooooooo right -- that version of the Saint-Saëns was simply gawdawful.

Does anyone remember G&G's LP from the '88 Olys? They used a truly heinous muzak version of Mozart (think it included Symphony #40, but not sure). The amazing thing was that their skating was so beautiful that I forgot to hate the muzak. For a few minutes, anyway.

Regards to all from Musicnerdland!

Also a piece by Saint-Saëns, AKA Havanaise (based upon the Habanera rhythm). The Bizet aria isn't really called "The Habanera (The aria's true name is "L'amour est un oiseau rebelle"), but has been referred to it by that name because of the dance rhythm. Technically not written by Bizet either, lol The tune was actually written by Sebastián Yradier, but "borrowed" by Bizet). So i was wrong about the program, but not the piece I mentioned. Just saying...

 

[capcomeback]

Exactly. That V&T and D&W deserved their gold medals (somewhat arguable in the case of D&W I suppose but most give them the benefit of doubt) is aside the point. The big picture is that it appears the entire Olympic figure skating competition was fixed. All the signs point to that. That is plain wrong, people except the chosen few never had a hope before the event even began.

S&S could have skated cleanly with a clean throw triple axel and still would have lost to V&T even with her missing both throws. D&W could have had a fall on a major element and still beaten a sublime V&M overall given the scoring and the silly rules in ice dance that even allow +1s and +2s on an element you fell on, if the rest of it was executed well enough. Yu Na Kim would have needed both a triple loop and triple axel (essentialy the 8 triples Mao was already trying) to have any chance to beat Sotnikova with a stumble. Shekhovtseva and Balkov, 3 other ex Soviet judges, and a Russian caller all on the judging panel together. All around it doesnt take a brain surgeon to see the insane level of ridiculousness, lack of any credibility or transparency, and unfairness from start to finish around the whole event.

In 2010, V&M were the best in the world, but over the last two years, D&W have taken their game (and the sport in general) to a new level, while V&M have stumbled a bit (mostly due to Tessa's injuries and getting her timing back). Even arguing all things being equal (which I'm not), D/W simply had the better program (V/M apparently knew it and wanted to change their program at the last minute but were not able to). They had better music, better (albeit minor) unison and speed. Could the score have been inflated for D/W? Maybe, but considering that V/M had been given a world record only minutes earlier, were they overscored too? I'd like to think that both partners danced wonderfully, but as it had been for the past two years (and rightfully so), D/W were better.

 

[ILuvYuna]

How does a wave to judges = choreography on a piece like Habanera by Saint-Saëns? How does riling up the fans = choreo for the piece?

Yeah, the waving comes off as very gimmicky (like "Hello there! This is me connecting to the audience! Because it's important to do that!" ). I also feel there was an overall lack of synthesis between the costuming, choreography, and the music (although her short program doesn't have this problem. It's not stellar, but I think it's a much better package than the long).

I'd love to see Adelina improve artistically, but according to some she's already arrived.

I agree. It's going to be really strange to watch her grow in this department over the next few years, but not see her IN & CH scores go up that much higher (because mathematically, they can't - she's was only 3.5 points off from perfect 10s in CH, and 4 points from perfection of IN).

 

[Olympia]

Also a piece by Saint-Saëns, AKA Havanaise (based upon the Habanera rhythm). The Bizet aria isn't really called "The Habanera (The aria's true name is "L'amour est un oiseau rebelle"), but has been referred to it by that name because of the dance rhythm. Technically not written by Bizet either, lol The tune was actually written by Sebastián Yradier, but "borrowed" by Bizet). So i was wrong about the program, but not the piece I mentioned. Just saying...

I didn't know that about the Carmen melody's origin! Thanks for the information.

Skatedreamer, I remember the 1988 long program of Gordeyeva/Grinkov. When I listen to it now, I realize that it's in the very old school of not just classical music but a medley of classical pieces that have nothing to do with one another. Wasn't Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony in there somewhere, and a bit of Chopin? Their skating was so exquisite and precise that one tends not to remember the music and then is surprised when actually hearing it play. In fact, the iconic "Aftrernoon of a Faun" program skated by Janet Lynn in 1970 or thereabouts was also a medley, rather disconcerting every time I hear it. I think it morphs into Liszt's "Les Preludes" and then something from French ballet, maybe Giselle, and finally into the last movement of I think Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. I know that many of us yearn for the good old days, but I'm glad that this aspect of music has changed. As a music nerd, I found the splice-and-dice approach a bit too fragmented for my concentration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kTnyOcPy4

 

[capcomeback]

I didn't know that about the Carmen melody's origin! Thanks for the information.

Skatedreamer, I remember the 1988 long program of Gordeyeva/Grinkov. When I listen to it now, I realize that it's in the very old school of not just classical music but a medley of classical pieces that have nothing to do with one another. Wasn't Mendelssohn's Italian Symphony in there somewhere, and a bit of Chopin? Their skating was so exquisite and precise that one tends not to remember the music and then is surprised when actually hearing it play. In fact, the iconic "Aftrernoon of a Faun" program skated by Janet Lynn in 1970 or thereabouts was also a medley, rather disconcerting every time I hear it. I think it morphs into Liszt's "Les Preludes" and then something from French ballet, maybe Giselle, and finally into the last movement of I think Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. I know that many of us yearn for the good old days, but I'm glad that this aspect of music has changed. As a music nerd, I found the splice-and-dice approach a bit too fragmented for my concentration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kTnyOcPy4

I don't remember for sure, but that sounds about right. In the old days (wow, saying that makes me feel like a Grandpa, lol), programs were much less thematic in terms of composition/composer/artist. You often saw different pieces stitched together, regardless of composer or period (Baroque, Classical. Romantic, etc.). Now, you often see an ungodly amount of terrible cuts and splices of one piece (occasionally different movements of larger pieces like symphonies or sonatas). Many times it's done well or at least OK, but I occasionally get really jarred by a terrible edit or splice. It can really take you out of a program. Also, choosing a good arrangement/version (muzak, blech!) of a piece tells you a lot about a skater.

This is where being a lyrical skater and having an understanding of music is important. The best skaters in terms of artistry usually seem to get this right. IMHO, Davis and White's choice, edits and version of Scheherazade was as excellent as their skating. it certainly added to their speed, unison and flow and helped to make their program beautiful and exciting.

 

[gotoschool]

Why Mao Asada must get bronze, Kim (1) and Kostner 2

What still bothers me is that the scores for the Russians (GOE'S and PCS) and Gracie Gold (PCS) were so inflated over the course of the SP and LP that even those who claim the judging is corrupt have difficulty granting the possibility, much less the certainty, that under fair and equitable judges Mao would have gotten a bronze. My friend who has no real knowledge of figure skating but really enjoyed watching proclaimed that Mao was way, way better than Sotnikova in her free skate without being prompted as if he was spontaneous reacting to how overwhelmed he was by the massive number and wide array of elegantly executed triple jumps. When I asked why, he simply said it was obvious from the smoothness with which she moved and her fluidity through the jumps. By contrast, he said that Sotnikova’s landings and choreography seemed lacking by comparison. It's good and worthy of a distant 4th place in free skate. But, it is not great like the numbers indicate. Even scores of 200 are quite difficult to obtain in international competition for champions and medal winners, and we know Sotnikova’s had no championships and that her average during the Grand Prix season was about 45-50 points lower than her performance at Sochi; therefore, her score of 224 score is quite simply impossible.

,
My friend saw through the veneer of fabricated greatness that had been tailored for her with the score inflation at the Russian and European championships. Furthermore, she did not skate clean with under rotations missed, two footed landings, step outs and flutzes not to mention hunching over as she headed into jumps, circular skating, skating that covered a far smaller circumference of the rink than Asada. The spins were well done though! Not to mention the absurdly high GOE’s which were more than Costner and Yuna combined and more than 5 times the number of 3’s that Asada had, after a casual observer had already said that Asada’s smoothness and execution appeared to be far superior. If we take off 15 points in PCS for the whole competition, which would still be above her season average, and 10-15 points from her tech scores, which seems conservative considering the absurd number of 3’s and the near total lack of deductions she received, she is already down to around 195, which is ALREADY below Asada’s bare bottom, lowballed score of 198. But of course, under more equitable judging she would score at least a couple of points higher on Tech scores and at least a point or two on PCS alone, thus putting her over 200.

I saw a video on youtube claiming that the PCS scores were almost certainly fixed ahead of time for Kim and Adelina because a competition under COP has never taken place in which the top two competitors finished within half a point of each other in PCS score, yet the difference in this competition was an UNPRECEDENTED .06 in the short and .09 in the long; therefore, it seems possible that the judges. predetermined a PCS score for Mao that was based on her season's average which is around 69.6. Asada is the one who is most severely punished by this rigged result because she is the only one who seems to have been obviously lowballed in order to give Lipnitskaya a chance to leapfrog her, though it took an utterly ludicrous PCS of 70 about 8-9 POINTS above her seasons average to do it.


Furthermore, the insidiousness with which Lipnitskaya's and Sotnikova's score incrementally escalated between the Grand Prix season from an average of around 178 to 202 at worlds to 216 or so at Russian championships makes the process seem more plausible. Yet in a mere month or two through by some form of Protean transformation Lipnitskaya's PCS is magically elevated to the virtual equivalent of the world record held by Yuna Kim and almost 5 POINTS HIGHER than Mao Asada, who was the first woman to break the 200-point barrier three consecutive times in international competition. I think this is impossible. This Gold Medal Theft of the Olympics Glamor Event may very well be a Russian act of diplomatic aggression as Putin flexes his muscles in the Crimean making an appeal to ethnic alliances across the Ukrainiam border to extend his grip on the ex-Soviet states. If there is a possibility of pre performance rigging that would suggest that quite a few judges were involved.

Gold’s PCS was also dramatically inflated by 10-15 points over the competition which would drop her down to below 190 with her fall.

It seems that those who plotted this coup on the great artists in the sport worked out the details with such subtle subterfuge that even those who picked up on the corruption would still be willing to grant the possibility that one of the two Russians had suddenly “risen to the occasion” and become a Level 1 skater. , which is ludicrous because they had never won any adult championships, though they were suddenly scoring even higher than Mao Asada. So, from her astronomical plunge Asada suddenly soared to become a medal threat, so she had to be held down with under-rotated, edge calls and criminally low PCS. Then, Lipntiskaya was propped up with a PCS higher than Asada despite two falls and and considerably inferior footwork and interpretation.

What worries me is that even those who are critical of the results are so willing to even hold Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya in the same category as Asada in the LP, and Costner and Kim for both SP and LP. I am also for moving Costner and Kim up a slot. I hope that this does not happen at Worlds in Japan, but I am really concerned that many will half way fall for this FULL BLOWN FARCE.

 

[richster106]

I am of the view the uptick in Gold's Pcs partially was part of the collusion in boosting the Russians. This way people might not so obviously see a fix solely for a Russian to podium/ win.

Gold has improved artistically with her Olympic lp, but her similar degree of jump in pcs, like Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia, probably was cover for the goal of a Russian victory; just IMO.