2014 Rostelecom Cup Free Dance 11/15 | Page 16 | Golden Skate

2014 Rostelecom Cup Free Dance 11/15

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Well, then Averbukh is an even bigger fan of Soviet soaps more than I thought!

Averbukh always liked dramatic programs with strong emotions.

But why drama, passion, suffering and strong emotions should be described like Soviet/Russian style only?

Secret Garden is an Irish-Norwegian duo playing new instrumental music – so Appassionata is not Russian music. Ferrante & Teicher were a duo of American piano players, known for their light arrangements of familiar classical pieces – so also not Russian music.

But I remember that also other couples showed big emotions and drama in their programs – how about Weaver & Poje’s FD Je suis malade? Virtue & Moir never had a drama in their programs? Annissina & Peizerat’s every FD was not full of drama, passion and love story? Was it all fully Soviet soap operas?

And what did you expect to see using such emotional music piece like Appassionata – some hoops and Charlston? ;)
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Averbukh always liked dramatic programs with strong emotions.

But why drama, passion, suffering and strong emotions should be described like Soviet/Russian style only?

Secret Garden is an Irish-Norwegian duo playing new instrumental music – so Appassionata is not Russian music. Ferrante & Teicher were a duo of American piano players, known for their light arrangements of familiar classical pieces – so also not Russian music.

But I remember that also other couples showed big emotions and drama in their programs – how about Weaver & Poje’s FD Je suis malade? Virtue & Moir never had a drama in their programs? Annissina & Peizerat’s every FD was not full of drama, passion and love story? Was it all fully Soviet soap operas?

And what did you expect to see using such emotional music piece like Appassionata – some hoops and Charlston? ;)

Oh right, so you're *that* sisinska.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
What you just did is called " taking the words out of the context" and "catching at the words instead of looking at the whole".

All those phrases were part of the bigger statement that most posters chose to ignore. She said they were surprised to get level 1, but they'll talk to the controllers, the specialists would point out to mistakes and they would correct their twizzles. What's wrong with acknowledging the mistake?

Out of context? So look at whole Zueva’s words to realise what she was talking about…

http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1025019005.html
Marina Zueva: ”The judges were judging strictly the first start of Nikita and Victoria. But it's probably a good thing. At least I can rely on the emotional state of my athletes - they know they could get a better marks. They got – a minimum. We have a possibility to reach the highest fourth Level in each element. And looking at level of Nikita and Vika’s skating – they can get them. ”

”They dropped Level in Twizzles. I don’t understand why they put Level 1 only. It is necessary to talk to Controlers. Specialists will tell us what was wrong and we will correct it.”


Maybe Marina Zueva doesn’t know rules well, so she had no idea why the couple got Level 1 Twizzles. But she knows very well what is Technical panel’s job and what is judge’s job.

Zueva told that JUDGES were strict with marks – and judges gives GOE and Components, then she continue that the couple knows they could get higher marks (not levels, she mentions marks), and then she says that they got minimum here. Only then she starts to talk about levels and only then she starts to talk about Level 1 Twizzles and points this towards Technical panel – she must ask them what was wrong.

So it is obvious that Zueva was complaining about minimum score from judges – it means GOE and Components.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
What is Soviet soaps? Like B&B in 1984-1988?

"Melody of the White Nights" that Bobrova and Soloviev skated to under Kustarova, a couple of Soviet soap music that Maria Butyrskaya skated to. I kind of like them but it doesn't always work after so many years of the similar themes/looks.
 

noidont

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
I don't know why they eliminated a lift in the FD. Programs look emptier and emptier now. Before 2010 there were so many wonderful combo lifts. I wish they could require at least two short lifts and one combo lift then get rid of that choreo lift/spin thing which makes no sense to exist.

I feel bad for Nikita. Viktoria looks terrible in techniques next to him. Her edge is so much visibly shallower. On top of that she has no personality and can't even pull off a generic not-in-character blues. There goes his OGM dream.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
I don't know why they eliminated a lift in the FD. Programs look emptier and emptier now. Before 2010 there were so many wonderful combo lifts. I wish they could require at least two short lifts and one combo lift then get rid of that choreo lift/spin thing which makes no sense to exist.

I feel bad for Nikita. Viktoria looks terrible in techniques next to him. Her edge is so much visibly shallower. On top of that she has no personality and can't even pull off a generic not-in-character blues. There goes his OGM dream.

I was actually surprised to see this dismal FD. I didn't think it would be this bad. Even Marina's own son Fedor Andreev and Khokhlova's "bluesy" number was polished and interesting to watch but it was no World title material. But then again, Igor was still around then? S&K's summer program was very V&M 2.0-esque, but at least it was lovely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3DYtWUFAM

I'm not surprised that Sinitsina is lackluster now. Remember her in Casta Diva? :cry:
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
I was actually surprised to see this dismal FD. I didn't think it would be this bad. Even Marina's own son Fedor Andreev and Khokhlova's "bluesy" number was polished and interesting to watch but it was no World title material. But then again, Igor was still around then?
How I missed this?:eek: You can even see glimpse of Davis/White's famous rotational lift from Khohklova, 1 year before D/W did. :shocked: Amazing lifts by the way.. :agree:
 

CaroLiza_fan

MINIOL ALATMI REKRIS. EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA.
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
I was eating at the time the Free Dance was on, so had to delay watching it. And then the X Factor came on when I finished, so I didn't get a chance to read this thread until this morning.

I was surprised that nobody had picked up on something that happened at the end of Stepanova / Bukin's FS.

Alexandra was wearing a lot of jewellery. She had a gold crucifix hanging from a gold necklace around her neck, and an awful lot of metalwork in her ears!

Ivan had been wearing two things around his neck during the routine. One was a black pendant on a black string necklace, and it was hanging outside his top. But he was also wearing a gold pendant on a gold necklace, which was tucked underneath his top.

Inevitably, the gold necklace worked its way out from under Ivan's top during the routine. But, by the end of the routine, it had actually come open, and had fallen off his neck. Luckily, instead of falling onto the ice (like had happened to part of a costume in the Pairs competition earlier in the day), it had become tangled up with the string necklace.

Now, I have re-watched the routine, and it seems to have only fallen down during the very last movement of the routine, when Alex had her hand around Ivan's neck.

When the routine ended, Alex went over to hug Ivan as normal, but while she was doing it, she pulled the gold necklace off the other one very quickly and hid it in her hand. Then they took their bows and came off the ice. And she was still holding it in her hand when they were getting the scores.

When the scores came up, they were given a 1 point deduction. Chris Howarth assumed it was for a lift going on too long. But I was wondering if it might have been a deduction for a costume malfunction.

So, your thoughts?

CaroLiza_fan
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Technical panel and their levels:

Victoria Sinitsina & Nikita Katsalapov:

Technical panel surprised me. While they were very detailed about any possible or unpossible mistake or not perfectly fixed position in case of I&Z, here in case of S&K they probably took a coffee break.

Curved lift Level 4:
…for getting the highest level the lift should have entry feature – for example “unexpected entry without any evident preparation“ – it happened, Nikita turned Vika around himself…
…also for getting the highest level both partners must execute a difficult pose – Victoria did a change of pose and Nikita attempted crouching position kept for at least 3 seconds…BUT to count crouching position like a difficult pose, the man must have “thighs at least parallel to the ice“ – look what Nikita created instead…
2mqvmn5.png

…this means that Nikita didn’t execute a difficult pose, so the level in lift should drop into Level 2…

Spin Level 4:
…for highest level it is necessary to execute “4 different Difficult Variations from
3 different Basic Positions (at least 2 being performed by partners simultaneously)“…
…Vika and Nikita executed 5 difficult variations, but only 2 of them (Nikita’s camel and Vika’s camel with the heel of the boot of free leg above head could be counted…
…Nikita’s both Sit positions couldn’t be counted because he changed the level and position of free leg and wasn’t able to execute three rotations in fully established positions (in first Sit spin his free leg was straight forward on the level of spinning thigh but after one rotation he put his free leg under the level of spinning thigh – he kept 2.5 rotations in this fully established position, in second Sit position he started with his free leg skate far to spinning leg and after some rotation he put his free leg skate behind spinning skate – he kept only 2 rotations in fully established position)…
…Vika’s layback position couldn‘t be counted because she changed the level of upper body during first rotation and fully established position was not kept for 3 rotations…
…so in reality the spin should be Level 1 only (for doing the same mistakes like I&Z and executing only two dificult Variations in Camel Basic Positiont)…

…maybe it looks to be strict and under microscope done, but this is exactly how the Level in Spin dropped down in case of I&Z…

…so in FD overall Technical panel gave a gift of plus 5 points in base value for S&K…

Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin:

The Levels in Spin got down for the same mistakes like at Cup of China – not keeping Lena’s layback and Ruslan’s Sit spin in fully established positions for whole three turns, only second part of the spin in well executed position, but both from the same base camel position, so Level 1 only.

Curved lift lost levels because both Lena and Ruslan didn’t keep difficult positions for 3 seconds, so Level 1.

Dropped level in opening rotational Lift was a surprise for me. There is a rule that one level may go down when a lifting partner stops rotations and you can see that Ruslan rotates slowly in one moment during Lena’s change of pose. I must say that it was 50:50 whether he really stopped the rotation or only went slower, but Technical panel was strict – they put the level down.

Comparing base value of elements in FD in case of three Russian couples:
S&B – 35.20
I&Z – 34.20
S&K – 33.50

GOE was the highest for I&Z + 10.05 points, then for S&K + 7.95 points, S&B +7.29 poinst.

Getting GOE 0.94 points for Curved lift where Nikita’s crouching position was very poor plus he was trembling there for all the time and his right blade came into inside edge instead of keeping it straight….this was not OK.

I am not sure also whether current technical ability of S&K really allows to execute Step Sequences on GOE +2 which is the same mark like for I&Z, who are stronger in steps and overall skating skills in this moment.

If Technical panel would be more careful in putting Levels for S&K (like they were in case of I&Z) – the base value would look like:
S&B – 35.20
I&Z – 34.20 (35.20 – not sure about the rotational lift)
S&K - 28.50

Not good work of Technical panel caused that Stepanova & Bukin lost to S&K. With proper calls of Technical panel Sasha & Ivan would be fourth in FD and fourth overall.

In SD Technical panel saved about 4-5 points for S&K in comparison with what they really executed.

So instead of noticing judges and technical panel in interviews both Zueva and S&K should be very thankful to both panel and judges for giving them better marks then they deserved.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
I was surprised that nobody had picked up on something that happened at the end of Stepanova / Bukin's FS.

When the scores came up, they were given a 1 point deduction. Chris Howarth assumed it was for a lift going on too long. But I was wondering if it might have been a deduction for a costume malfunction.

So, your thoughts?

CaroLiza_fan

Looking at protocols they got deduction for extended lift only.
 

CaroLiza_fan

MINIOL ALATMI REKRIS. EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA.
Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Country
Northern-Ireland
Looking at protocols they got deduction for extended lift only.

Thank you. Thank goodness the deduction was for something skating related! It will have been really bugging them otherwise.

That said, personally, I don't think skaters should be allowed to wear jewellery at all. It can be dangerous if it falls off and they skate into it, and dangerous if they fall and it catches on a rough piece of ice.

But, I'm a guy that doesn't wear jewellery himself. So, I would say that! ;)

CaroLiza_fan
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
sisinka, do you know why S\K got only level 1 for twizzles?

Sinitsina & Katsalapov Twizzles Level 1:
From rules: “A chosen Additional Feature from Groups A and B shall be considered for a Level if it is fully achieved and established within the first half rotation of the Twizzle.“

…the couple missed Feature from Group B – Vika didn’t catch heel of skate during first half rotation…
…Nikita missed Feature from Group A – he didn’t establish his position - hands clasped in front of body…
…so they would stay with two Features from Group C – crossed pattern and third Set of Twizzles…this would be Level 2…
…I think that the couple could miss Feature from Group C also – clear change of sides with crossed pattern – the couple tried to change sides but at the end Vika was still some metres in front of Nikita, not besides his left arm…but I am not sure with this possibility…
…another possibility was that one Level dropped down because of three turns…being frank I am not sure with this, some rotations didn’t look fluently, but watching knees – it didn’t change in benting…
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Kaitlin Hawayek & Jean-Luc Baker:

Twizzles Level 4:
…Feature from Group B – leg position – the couple holds blades for 4 rotations…
…Feature from Group A – also done in the first Set – Kaitlin takes more time to get arm into the position, thanks to it she has 4 rotations or almost 4 rotations – which gives a space to a strict Technical panel to put the level down for not doing full 4 rotations to get Level 4 (Jean-Luc enters the first Set and his arm is already in the position)…
…the couple crosses pattern and makes the third Set from different entry edge then first two Sets – two Features from Group C…
…Kaitlin executed a Piruette in the third Set, so the level should drop to Level 3…
…overall nice Twizzles except Kaitlin’s Piruette, good ice coverage…

Circular Step Sequence Level 3:
…some edges nice, many edges light, second Mohawk with no second edge by Jean-Luc and no opening edge by Kaitlin…
…they need to improve knee work a lot, they should work on deep edges…

Combination Spin Level 3:
From rules: “Rotations shall be considered for total number of rotations when performed fully, continuously, on one foot and simultaneously by both partners.“
“If the angle between the thigh and shin of the skating leg is less than about 120 degrees, the position shall be considered as a Sit Position.“


…first part - Jean-Luc didn’t keep 3 rotations in fully established position – he comes with free leg down first, but then he puts free leg closer to spinning leg and then stops moving with free leg – and only since this time the position is fully established – in this position Jean-Luc executed 2.25 rotations only…
…first part – Kaitlin – she has Sit position with free leg bent to the side – almost 3 rotations…
…second part – Kaitlin – camel position with the heel of blade under head – 2.75 rotations…
…second part – Jean-Luc – the same Sit position – 3 rotations – counted…
…third part – Kaitlin – layback – 3 rotations…counted
…third part – Jean-Luc – leaning away with axis from free leg knee to upper body less or around 45 degrees (not described whether spinning or free knee)…not sure whether it should be counted or not…
…overall two-three difficult variations from two basic positions (Spin option 2 with change of leg and change of spinning direction) – Level 3…
(For getting Level 4 they would need counted some difficult variation in camel position which didn’t happen.)

Diagonal Step Sequence Level 1:
…light edges…
…I found around two turns with no edge from both, but the rest edges looked at least light or quite nice…
…second turn – Counter – Jean-Luc went through the heel of blade while changing edge, this was not clean…
…change of holds – Foxtrot (Killian hold like transitional) to Tango to shorter Killian hold – those are 2 change…
…I didn’t find the reason why the couple got Level 1, maybe only in moment when Killian hold would be taken like Transitional hold (which would caused only 1 change of hold)…or in moment when the most of light edges would not be counted…

Well executed lifts.

As to presentation:
http://www.abelkorzeniowski.com/romeo-and-juliet
A Note from Abel Korzeniowski, the composer:
”Their vows and promises, relentlessly exchanged, over and over again, like returning
choruses of an endless love song – when Romeo and Juliet talk to each other, it already sounds like music. At some point the extraordinary words serve their purpose no more and rational meaning becomes irrelevant, and then… we can truly feel.
My score is about that love story. I did my best to forget how it ends, to really focus on the sweetness and agony of each moment as it is unfolding. In Romeo and Juliet, life and death serve merely as useful props, points of reference, eventually overcome and readily abandoned. It’s a triumphant song of love reaching eternity.”


It was airy and fresh, very pleasant to watch. I think that Jean-Luc improved a little bit since last time in presentation. I have still a feeling that Kaitlin is more working to make every movement nice rather than feeling the music. It is understable – this is their first big competition. Kaitlin is sometimes looking somewhere behind Jean-Luc or on the other side, but this is a love story – a feeling between two people who tries to fight against whole world to have an opportunity to be together – I think that a connection between the couple (so looking at each other also) should be closer that it is now. In future I would like to see a gradation at the end when music comes with more tension and a little bit more sadness – the couple still keeps the same airy look which was very good looking at the beginning of the program, but not at the end.
 

sisinka

Medalist
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Alexandra Stepanova & Ivan Bukin:

Twizzle Level 1:
…I think this could be the same problem like in case of Vika & Nikita – the couple didn’t established leg position in the first Set and arm position in the second and third Set during first half rotation…
…so they stayed with only one Feauture from Group C – third Set of Twizzles…
…Ivan was fighting not to make a Piruette in the second Set, he won that fight…
…very small ice coverage in all Sets…

Diagonal Step Sequence Level 2:
…light edges, some nice edges…
…One Foot Section had Counter and Double Twizzle at the end, but both Sasha and Ivan made a very short second part of Counter immediatelly going into a Double Twizzles – if this wouldn’t be counted like clean Counter than Ivan would loose One Foot section with three difficult turns and the Level would drop into Level 2 only because of this…
…Sasha’s second Mohawk had no opening edge…
…changes of holds – Killian to Waltz to Foxtrot…
…there is a possibility that some of those light edges were not counted and each of them didn’t catch clean 7 difficult turns…

Circular Step Sequence Level 3:
…some nice edges, many lighter…

Very nice and fast spin. Lifts great and difficult like usual.
My opinion about body posture and spacing didn’t change like skater‘s posture and spacing stayed the same like last time. They were very slow this time.

Although they fight for every moment, I don’t see a connection between them (I would completely interdict any looks and smiles at judges from Ivan during Step Sequences, in those moments I have a feeling that he is alone there and Sasha is invisible for him), I don’t see a dance – which may be caused by many transitions with splits and not dancy choreography.
 
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