2015 Europeans Ladies Short Program Jan 29

[Sam-Skwantch]

I can't be the only here who thinks Elena should win the PCS between her and Liza. Or can I ?

Here is what I think:

INT- Lena (shouldn't this be a 1pt swing almost)
P/E- Liza (but Lena is close to nearly tied on a good skate)
SS- Liza
CH- Lena
TR- Lena

While it is close, Lena's Interpretation for me should win it and if Lena goes clean her execution might equal Liza erasing that lead from her with that being a big factor in the point difference.

We'll see how it shakes out tomorrow but Liza gave up two points in BV in the SP. I think she is fortunate to be only 1.5 pts back. Even Cara put in a 3f-3t in the end of last season and her PCS was ...well....secure

 

[Sandpiper]

What's wrong with Liza's INT? And for me Lena shouldn't win CH this season (especially in the LP) because I feel that she was saddled with weaker programs. Lena should definitely win TR because she does a huge volume of them, but I feel like they actually worked against the other PCS factors.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Liza's INT is fine but to me it isn't on the same level as Lena's.

I do agree that an overabundance of transitions(often pointless ones) can impact other PCS factors.

 

[Sandpiper]

Lena's INT is wonderful, I would never dispute that. But I feel like her LP this season doesn't give her a chance to show it off. It doesn't fit Lena, and for the first two-thirds, there was a bit too much "here is what my choreographer wanted." She comes alive at the end, with the the excellent spiral, but as a whole I feel that her program negatively impacted INT and CH. I actually prefer her SP, despite it being J.Lo--Lena does seem to feel that program (though I can't really give it the best CH, I'd keep her INT high).

With Liza, I get the sense that she loves her music and feels it in her bones. The movements seem to come from her, not the choreographer. I do think she could work on TR in the LP (SP is fine to me), but I'd probably give her the other components over Lena.

All this varies from performance to performance, obviously. At Skate America, Lena clearly deserved to beat Liza in pretty much all the components, because Liza didn't perform that LP to her usual standards (and the stupid spin error was disruptive). Comparatively, at Russian Nationals, while Liza made two jumping errors, her performance did not falter, so I wouldn't dock her PCS there.

 

[CutieP]

Lena's INT is wonderful, I would never dispute that. But I feel like her LP this season doesn't give her a chance to show it off. It doesn't fit Lena, and for the first two-thirds, there was a bit too much "here is what my choreographer wanted." She comes alive at the end, with the the excellent spiral, but as a whole I feel that her program negatively impacted INT and CH. I actually prefer her SP, despite it being J.Lo--Lena does seem to feel that program (though I can't really give it the best CH, I'd keep her INT high).

Basically I agree with a lot of this. Her SP suits her better. But when you say: "She comes alive at the end, with the the excellent spiral" I just can't agree with. She comes "alive" way earlier. The spin before the last spin and that choreo seq. in between is pure light and beauty on ice. And I love the change of mood in the program. (The story is about the fact that we have wars in this world (the serious part) and how we should end them and replace them with love and happiness (the joyous part)) The transition of emotion works very well, even if she's not the best interpreter of serious emotions just yet.

Anyway, I don't think there should be much difference in INT between the two skaters.

 

[kwanatic]

What it really comes down to with Liza T and Elena is that they are quite evenly matched across the board. Liza has cleaner execution of her jumps but Elena has tougher content. I prefer Elena's spins but the only one she has a real edge in is her layback which is far superior to Liza's. Liza's layback is good...not great...and not excellent. Elena's is excellent.

As far as interpretation, they are two of the better performers in the field. I think Elena's SP has better IN than Liza's, but I think Liza's FS has better IN than Elena's. TR definitely goes to Elena. I'd say they are pretty equal in CH. Neither of them has an excellently choreographed program...they have strong programs that compliment their styles. Same thing with PE; both are strong when they deliver and deserve similar marks. In SS, I'd give Liza a slight lead but not by much.

They are very evenly matched which is why watching them compete is so entertaining. Neither can afford a mistake if they want to win....

 

[Leonardo]

I don't understand either why all the judges seem to agree that Elena is technically brilliant. And a surprisingly good interpreter for her age. It's been like this the whole season. And all the TV experts that I've found seem to agree with all this. It must be a conspiracy! :think:

I bet this goes all the way to the white house Damn you Obama!!!

I don't get the Radionova hate either. Her jumping technique is not perfect, but that's about it. She isn't a flutzer, nor a liper, gets decent height, flow and fully rotates her very difficult jumps, unlike most of the other skaters. She's an absolutely beautiful performer, a natural dancer with an age appropriate choreography ("mature" choreography isn't necessarily better), beautiful interpretation, very good skating skills and footwork, great spins and beautiful flexibility.I love Liza too, but Liza has some qualities that Lena doesn't and vice-versa, and that's what makes the competition interesting.
P.s. Many people say that Elena's SP choreo/music are horrible, but Lisa's cheesy and generic bolero choreo is supposed to be great and mature? Double standards...

 

[Alba]

I don't get the Radionova hate either.

Easy. She's strong, consistent and is winning.

 

[CutieP]

I don't get the Radionova hate either. Her jumping technique is not perfect, but that's about it. She isn't a flutzer, nor a liper, gets decent height, flow and fully rotates her very difficult jumps, unlike most of the other skaters. She's an absolutely beautiful performer, a natural dancer with an age appropriate choreography ("mature" choreography isn't necessarily better), beautiful interpretation, very good skating skills and footwork, great spins and beautiful flexibility.I love Liza too, but Liza has some qualities that Lena doesn't and vice-versa, and that's what makes the competition interesting.
P.s. Many people say that Elena's SP choreo/music are horrible, but Lisa's cheesy and generic bolero choreo is supposed to be great and mature? Double standards...

:agree: I have absolutely nothing to add to this!

The last group of the ladies FS is bound to be the most interesting part of these Europeans. Two Swedes, Kiiras comeback and some brilliant Russians fighting for the gold. Can't wait! (I'm off to bed)

 

[Watermelondrea]

I agree this is the best I've seen from anna, and I don't mean to knock her down, but she is hands down the worst spinner in elite ladies skating. Her spins are often out of control looking and her positions are awful. This is the number one thing I think she could improve on and I wish she would, because I do think between the SP and LP, she is losing significant points, especially since she also often does not hit level 4.

I disagree, I don't think there a worst spinner, I think most Russians are bad spinners, with the exceptions of Julia, Evgenia Adelina. Their spins looked controlled and have a nice flow to them. Liza, Lena, Anna,Serafima, many others do similar spins and don't do them well. They don't look that nice o. o. I will say, out of the ones I listed, I think that Anna's spins aren't as bad as the others.

 

[Watermelondrea]

I can't be the only here who thinks Elena should win the PCS between her and Liza. Or can I ?

Here is what I think:

INT- Lena (shouldn't this be a 1pt swing almost)
P/E- Liza (but Lena is close to nearly tied on a good skate)
SS- Liza
CH- Lena
TR- Lena

While it is close, Lena's Interpretation for me should win it and if Lena goes clean her execution might equal Liza erasing that lead from her with that being a big factor in the point difference.

We'll see how it shakes out tomorrow but Liza gave up two points in BV in the SP. I think she is fortunate to be only 1.5 pts back. Even Cara put in a 3f-3t in the end of last season and her PCS was ...well....secure

Why isn't Anna in this o.o Her choreography and interpretation was the best.

 

[Watermelondrea]

I don't get the Radionova hate either. Her jumping technique is not perfect, but that's about it. She isn't a flutzer, nor a liper, gets decent height, flow and fully rotates her very difficult jumps, unlike most of the other skaters. She's an absolutely beautiful performer, a natural dancer with an age appropriate choreography ("mature" choreography isn't necessarily better), beautiful interpretation, very good skating skills and footwork, great spins and beautiful flexibility.I love Liza too, but Liza has some qualities that Lena doesn't and vice-versa, and that's what makes the competition interesting.
P.s. Many people say that Elena's SP choreo/music are horrible, but Lisa's cheesy and generic bolero choreo is supposed to be great and mature? Double standards...

She doesn't jump with her legs, it's all her upper body and it makes it very unattractive and LOOK like it gets no height. I can't stand it -.-
I agree with you, though, I don't like the double standards. The choreography in either isn't that great, but I prefer Elena's music, no doubt!

 

[Mishaminion]

Why oh why have I never paid much attention to Liza before. I don't care if Lena's combo was more difficult, Liza's 3T-3T with her hand above her head on the second jump made me go WOW. The height, distance, speed and landings were far superior to Lena. It just LOOKED way better.

 

[Shayuki]

Well, I dislike Elena's SP overall. Her FS is much better.

Anyway, saying she doesn't jump with her legs makes no sense. Try to jump without your legs, you won't get off the ground.

Why oh why have I never paid much attention to Liza before. I don't care if Lena's combo was more difficult, Liza's 3T-3T with her hand above her head on the second jump made me go WOW. The height, distance, speed and landings were far superior to Lena. It just LOOKED way better.

You're going to appreciate Tanos a lot less when Sakhanovich and Medvedeva come to senior and Tano every. single. jump.

 

[Mishaminion]

Lol probably, that is taking it a bit too far.

 

[andromache]

You're going to appreciate Tanos a lot less when Sakhanovich and Medvedeva come to senior and Tano every. single. jump.

I'm really hoping that some sort of rule limiting Tanos is put into place for next season or the one after, at the very latest.

 

[Sandpiper]

I disagree, I don't think there a worst spinner, I think most Russians are bad spinners, with the exceptions of Julia, Evgenia Adelina. Their spins looked controlled and have a nice flow to them. Liza, Lena, Anna,Serafima, many others do similar spins and don't do them well. They don't look that nice o. o. I will say, out of the ones I listed, I think that Anna's spins aren't as bad as the others.

Take a trip to Canadian Nationals. The "Russians" as a group most certainly are not bad spinners. (Who would the "good spinners" be then?).

Why isn't Anna in this o.o Her choreography and interpretation was the best.

This is probably the best Anna has done all season, and the new version of the music doesn't overwhelm her the way Lara Fabian's version did. However, I still find her a lot less expressive than either Lena or Liza (though she did deserve more GOE than she received, for some of the jumps).

 

[matcha]

Well, I dislike Elena's SP overall. Her FS is much better.

Anyway, saying she doesn't jump with her legs makes no sense. Try to jump without your legs, you won't get off the ground.

You're going to appreciate Tanos a lot less when Sakhanovich and Medvedeva come to senior and Tano every. single. jump.

Maybe they'll Rippon a few?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why isn't Anna in this o.o Her choreography and interpretation was the best.

I was just continuing with a discussion that others were having regarding Lena vs Liza. At least I think I was.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm really hoping that some sort of rule limiting Tanos is put into place for next season or the one after, at the very latest.

No more rules please. Live and let live:yes: