2015 Finlandia Trophy Ice Dance SD and FD

[Sorrento]

Danes got 90.86 for their FD (from internet)
So they should be in 3rd place I believe?

 

[4everchan]

sure so who else? there aren't that many elite coaching groups to pick from… if we say no to Krylova, no to Marina, no to D/L … they aren't going to go train with GP that wouldn't work out I think… such a different kind of coaching group….

I really love D/L/H. But - Just no! I really enjoy some of Montreal's choreography, but with as many teams as they now have, I feel like they're all very similar. I think it might get old fast once the season really gets underway.

 

[slider11]

Interesting last group of ice dancers. The Danes are probably the only ones really happy; they were good. I don't think there's anything really special there but it was solid. I found the Israelis slow and didn't care for the black night club dress to that music. Again solid but nothing special for me. Big disappointment in the performance of Hawayek and Baker but huge potential with this free dance. It seems that he lost his footing in the lift but it seemed Kaitlin the most upset at the end. She is not quite 19 and I think it will take some time for her to mature into this huge burden of being a top contender. Maybe they just aren't ready. But huge potential! The difference in emotions is with Weaver and Poje. Andrew was off on his twizzles and didn't have a solid base with some of the lifts. But I love how supportive Kaitlyn was with him; now that's a partner! I'm not clicking with the FD at this point but I do love the beginning and end so maybe it just takes time. I think it's very hard to compare with other Challenger competitions, at this point. But Skate America is right around the corner and that's where the comparisons will be real. H/B have some work to do!

 

[NoNameFace]

I am so bummed right now...To be honest, so far for me only Giles/Poirier and Elena and Ruslan have promising FD material to work on during the season (I am shocked even by myself), the rest is too much/too little, too open, too dated, too boring or too nowhere now...I'm praying now for Gabriella and Guillaume to recover quckly and bring something special

 

[Dots]

The Shibutanis should go to K and C and W/P should go to Sueva.

 

[beebee51]

Will the medal ceremonies be shown?

 

[4everchan]

NO NO NO i don't want WP with Zueva… i fell she let down both VM and the shibs in 2014 to focus on DW

The Shibutanis should go to K and C and W/P should go to Sueva.

 

[Sorrento]

The Shibutanis should go to K and C and W/P should go to Sueva.

Zoueva is pretty busy with Katsalapov and Sinitsyna. if they don't shoot this season then they're done for good. She has a lot to prove.

 

[jax]

Finlandia Trophy 2015

Ice Dance

Result

FPl. Name Nation Points SD FD
1 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN 161.67 1 1
2 Isabella TOBIAS / Ilia TKACHENKO ISR 150.89 2 3
3 Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SORENSEN DEN 147.65 3 2
4 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER USA 132.86 4 7
5 Cecilia TÖRN / Jussiville PARTANEN FIN 131.08 5 4
6 Cortney MANSOUR / Michal CESKA CZE 127.31 7 6
7 Brianna DELMAESTRO / Timothy LUM CAN 127.12 9 5
8 Olesia KARMI / Max LINDHOLM FIN 117.75 6 8
9 Barbora SILNA / Juri KURAKIN AUT 114.55 8 9
10 Carter Marie JONES / Richard SHARPE GBR 111.48 10 10
11 Jennifer URBAN / Sevan LERCHE GER 97.47 11 11

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

sure so who else? there aren't that many elite coaching groups to pick from… if we say no to Krylova, no to Marina, no to D/L … they aren't going to go train with GP that wouldn't work out I think… such a different kind of coaching group….

I'm not in the camp of people that totally wants to oust Marina or Krylova. I think that they both have their merits; and are good coaches for specific teams. I also don't think the best solution is to always go new coach shopping. Sometimes that is the answer. But sometimes, some of these teams need to be choosier with their choreography and what they are putting out there. And sometimes, I hate to say it, but teams max out their potential whether it's them or the judging. I'm not saying this about W/P in particular. I just mean in general terms. I don't know if a new set of eyes would benefit W/P or not. I'm not sure there's any established coaches with political pull that would take them and push them as their #1 team to the next Olympics.

 

[lauravvv]

Sadly, I may just have to agree. I think there was a big craze about Camerlengo/Krylova coaching team in 2012 when they created 2 iconic (at least in my book) programs - W/P's Je Suis Malade and Takahashi's Blues for Klook ( ). But I feel that recently they have run out of ideas :no:

W/P's choreo isn't totally on C/K though. They've had others help with their choreo. Maybe it just hasn't had enough miles to come to life yet.

Yes, Peter Tchernyshev choreographed this FD for them. Although from their interview it could be understood that he left them with a lot of ideas for the choreography, and then they and Camerlengo worked with that. So, most likely there is a lot of input also from him (Camerlengo).

That being said, H/B are so much more pleasing to the eye compared to w/p who are BORING and average at best. You can see why judges don't care about them. Overscored for what they put out and sloppy per usual.

Yes, judges didn't give Weaver/Poje that World title last season and the season before, but up until Worlds, and also at the World Team Trophy after that their scores were really high - also in the SD, considering their mistakes there. So "judges don't care about them" is a bit strongly said. And call them sloppy all you want, overall they are better skaters with more complex programs (like them or not) than Chock/Bates. And, as for "boring", your opinion on that is not a fact. For me they are not boring, and I think I am not the only one.

 

[Dots]

By far C/B have the best program this season.

 

[robredo40]

C&B have a good fd but its Rach overdone too classical, not sure if that`s the winning world FD , technically so far C&B are the best for sure.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, Peter Tchernyshev choreographed this FD for them. Although from their interview it could be understood that he left them with a lot of ideas for the choreography, and then they and Camerlengo worked with that. So, most likely there is a lot of input also from him (Camerlengo).



Yes, judges didn't give Weaver/Poje that World title last season and the season before, but up until Worlds, and also at the World Team Trophy after that their scores were really high - also in the SD, considering their mistakes there. So "judges don't care about them" is a bit strongly said. And call them sloppy all you want, overall they are better skaters with more complex programs (like them or not) than Chock/Bates. And, as for "boring", your opinion on that is not a fact. For me they are not boring, and I think I am not the only one.

THIS POST also summarizes my thoughts...

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

So "judges don't care about them" is a bit strongly said. And call them sloppy all you want, overall they are better skaters with more complex programs (like them or not) than Chock/Bates.

Shae-Lynn tends to work with W/P a lot concerning choreography too.

Disclaimer, I like W/P and C/B.
C/B definitely benefit from having a coach that is good at playing to his skaters' strengths and generally tries to minimize their weaknesses. That is great, but sometimes the choreography can leave a little wanting. I like their programs this season though fine. At least they're different for them.

 

[4everchan]

oh i don't disagree with you... that's why i wrote sure so who else??? but from my experience in other fields as I don't skate, new eyes will automatically help out.... elite artists/athletes need to get different ideas.... i think changing teams is not a guarantee for better results but it is for sure going to bring different perspectives.... sometimes, coaches only focus on one thing... let me try to give an example... let's say twizzles.. perhaps it's a big deal for krylova as maybe they aren't stable with WP... so they train them a lot... talk about them a lot... analyze them a lot... etc and it creates some negative aura around them.... yet, another coach might leave those alone at first and focus on connection with the music let' s say... and somehow, it relieves pressure away from the twizzles and they suddenly get better as Krylova's advice sinks in...

this is a very basic and naive analogy... but i have seen this happen with my own students.... coaches tend to focus too much on one thing when it's been too long a partnership... and take other details for granted.... while fresh eyes may bring something else that will over all make things shift... and hopefully for the best....

in any case, I still love WP. they are going to get better results very soon

I'm not in the camp of people that totally wants to oust Marina or Krylova. I think that they both have their merits; and are good coaches for specific teams. I also don't think the best solution is to always go new coach shopping. Sometimes that is the answer. But sometimes, some of these teams need to be choosier with their choreography and what they are putting out there. And sometimes, I hate to say it, but teams max out their potential whether it's them or the judging. I'm not saying this about W/P in particular. I just mean in general terms. I don't know if a new set of eyes would benefit W/P or not. I'm not sure there's any established coaches with political pull that would take them and push them as their #1 team to the next Olympics.

 

[juliajk]

WP have to wery strong , interesting and difficult programs this season, I'm very pleased with the choreography, an I think it's more interesting and complexed than what the other top teams have shown so far. My only concern is that they don't seem ready for the season for some reason, and they don't have much time to fix all the problems. I'm a little bit worried, even though WP always had such problems at senior B's at previous seasons.

 

[dorispulaski]

You have to give Igor credit for getting his teams to competitions with the tech component understood, and the dancers performing them at the best level of skill they can.

For example, Chock & Bates and Tobias & Tkachenko and Kavita Lorenz & Panagiotis (Joti) Polizoakis.

The last two couples are first year teams. Even C&B have not been together all that long for a dance team.

Good job Igor!

 

[icedinn]

Yes, Peter Tchernyshev choreographed this FD for them. Although from their interview it could be understood that he left them with a lot of ideas for the choreography, and then they and Camerlengo worked with that. So, most likely there is a lot of input also from him (Camerlengo).



Yes, judges didn't give Weaver/Poje that World title last season and the season before, but up until Worlds, and also at the World Team Trophy after that their scores were really high - also in the SD, considering their mistakes there. So "judges don't care about them" is a bit strongly said. And call them sloppy all you want, overall they are better skaters with more complex programs (like them or not) than Chock/Bates. And, as for "boring", your opinion on that is not a fact. For me they are not boring, and I think I am not the only one.

Yes I know that it's my opinion. Don't take it personal, a lot of people like them but I'm not one of them. I don't like them. That's what being a skating fan is all about. What you think is good another person might not. So deal.

 

[snowflakebeautiful]

oh i don't disagree with you... that's why i wrote sure so who else??? but from my experience in other fields as I don't skate, new eyes will automatically help out.... elite artists/athletes need to get different ideas.... i think changing teams is not a guarantee for better results but it is for sure going to bring different perspectives.... sometimes, coaches only focus on one thing... let me try to give an example... let's say twizzles.. perhaps it's a big deal for krylova as maybe they aren't stable with WP... so they train them a lot... talk about them a lot... analyze them a lot... etc and it creates some negative aura around them.... yet, another coach might leave those alone at first and focus on connection with the music let' s say... and somehow, it relieves pressure away from the twizzles and they suddenly get better as Krylova's advice sinks in...

this is a very basic and naive analogy... but i have seen this happen with my own students.... coaches tend to focus too much on one thing when it's been too long a partnership... and take other details for granted.... while fresh eyes may bring something else that will over all make things shift... and hopefully for the best....

in any case, I still love WP. they are going to get better results very soon

I guess I shouldn't have said I wasn't sure if a new set of eyes would be of benefit because that isn't what I quite meant and I agree with you. In general, I agree. A new set of eyes usually, at minimum, leads to a new approach to things that can potentially freshen things up. I more so meant that I don't know who those eyes would belong to given the team dispersement of the current field. It'd be exciting if K/C could pull in another younger less established coach who could lend to this.