2015 Junior Worlds Ladies Free Skate
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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If what you say is true, then it's even more evident that their 'tanos should not receive extra GOE. I've said it before: figure skating is two parts--is it beautiful? is it difficult? There's nothing beautiful about a million repetitive 'tanos in one program, and if there's nothing difficult about it either, it's pretty ridiculous to give Sima and Evgenia +2 when even Liza sometimes only gets +2.To address the tano complaints I made a quick jumpamatron video of Sima's 3Lz Tano from the SP. I think it shows how she actually uses the arm to get a greater height and have better control. Judge for yourself but IMO she is using it as more than just a point getter but instead as part of her jump mechanics.
Available in up to 720p HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7W7uMvdE7w
There are many things to like about Evgenia and Sima, but I've yet to see one convincing argument in favour of the 'tano. (Though I'm all ears if you're willing to provide one, Sam).
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- Jun 9, 2014
I don't know the mechanics of doing incorporating tanos into your jumps but as a viewer, I just cannot get through a program full of "tano-ed" jumps which makes me a little sad since I really want to watch them. I physically can't sit through them because they're so aesthetically unpleasing to my eyes.
Then again, I'm a textbook jump lover.
Then again, I'm a textbook jump lover.
I agree! The "tano" jumps are disturbing to me visually talking (actually they are irritating me). No problem with 1 jump like Liza did, but no more, please ...
Interesting video from Sam about Sima's technique: it seems like the hand up is increasing the height. In any case, not being possible for me to try it on ice, I stay ignorant on this matter. I limit my reply with congrats to Sima, what a wonderful skater/athlete (have you seen the amplitude of her jumps??), ready to go seniors next year.
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- Dec 29, 2013
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Honestly Tano's don't bother me at all and I think the one from Sima's Jumpamatron is gorgeous to watch in motion. To me that is a positive GOE jump before factoring in any edge calls(she got a ! for that one BTW). I don't see the point in restricting them any more than I see a point in requiring them. Let people skate how they want. I also don't care either way if you score them extra points or not. TBH I don't even know why they receive extra GOE anyway. :confused2: But the jumps don't bother me. There are aspects to skating that I don't like.....blowing kisses, wiggling around and being flirty, butt-kissing the crowd stuff and general over emoting.....but I'd hardly ever care enough to ask for it to be reduced or eliminated.
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But those things you named aren't worth points. They're not explicitly rewarded in the ISU rulebook as a "variation," and judges are free to give or take away points (in CH, P/E, INT, ect.) based on how it benefited/didn't benefit the program.
I would have no issues with 'tano's existence--though I continue to dislike their effect on the program--if they weren't explicitly rewarded. Heck, I'm so lenient and "freedom for all!" that I wouldn't even mind butt spin, as long as it's not given a level. (If that were the case, we'd probably see few butt spins anyway).
The judges tend to give a 'tano jump +1 higher than it otherwise would get. The rulebook tells him to do it. That, imo, is unfair to people like Wakaba and Liza, when they do monster jumps and get only a little more GOE than Sima/Evgenia. Even unfair to someone like Yulia, who should get around the same GOE as Sima (if not more, since her landings are smoother). But she's probably not going to get it, now that she lost her momentum from the Olympics. So, if the judges can't do their jobs, we have no choice but to address the problem at its root with a limit. (Or, we can first try amending the rulebook: "'tano gets extra GOE, but only if it's done 2 times or less." If it doesn't work, then the limit).
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- Feb 13, 2014
This tano drama kills me. 
Visually I don't mind them- at all. Getting high GOE for them or sacrificing jump quality to perform them, I do mind. But that is case-by-case. And limiting them to once or twice a program? I can't believe this is even an argument. There are a dozen other things the ISU needs to work on before even considering imposing a restriction on lifting your arms above your head.
Visually I don't mind them- at all. Getting high GOE for them or sacrificing jump quality to perform them, I do mind. But that is case-by-case. And limiting them to once or twice a program? I can't believe this is even an argument. There are a dozen other things the ISU needs to work on before even considering imposing a restriction on lifting your arms above your head.
I think if tano jump is the only way you can jump now (as sima said in her interview), if it is your unique mechanic to pull off a jump. Also, if the way it's been done is not really aesthetically pleasing (not as the original inventor does it), I dont think it should be rewarded with extra point, it is just like mule-kick jump or leg wrap jump. I dont think these 2 air position varieties been rewarded as an extra point getter.
Did you happen to catch the explanation Zhenia and Sima gave in the presser yesterday about how the Tano's help them to gain air position? They used their arms and shoulders to make a motion that makes perfect sense as to why someone would do it. They also said they don't feel comfortable doing the jumps anymore so expect them to continue
I didn't read any explanation, but as a skater I know that it is not the arms that make the jump happen!
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- Feb 17, 2010
I wonder how people could put so much attention to tano , when I watched them I almost didn't care about tano at all but other details.
Btw, Sotskova is lovely, I hope she has better year and music cut next season.
And Elizabet TURSYNBAEVA
Btw, Sotskova is lovely, I hope she has better year and music cut next season.
And Elizabet TURSYNBAEVA
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- Dec 29, 2011
This tano drama kills me.
Visually I don't mind them- at all. Getting high GOE for them or sacrificing jump quality to perform them, I do mind. But that is case-by-case. And limiting them to once or twice a program? I can't believe this is even an argument. There are a dozen other things the ISU needs to work on before even considering imposing a restriction on lifting your arms above your head.
This. There are so many restrictions already, the skaters should have some room for individuality, IMO. I don't like Simas tano either. But that's because I don't like her air position. Would I like her air position without the tano? No.
And Wakaba didn't get less GOE on her jumps than Sima or Evgenia. Now her jumps are better, and she should be getting higher GOE, but the other two girls were also the favorites and we all know that raises your scores. I don't think Sima or Evgenia would have scored considerably less on GOE without the tanos.
The exhibition showed that Wakababy can be really artistic and beautiful, she just needs the right choreography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jyAkmGT8Pk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jyAkmGT8Pk
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- Jul 27, 2003
Oh, so was I supposed to have read/watched her commentary in order to understand what she's trying to on the ice?!
I agree with yyyskate that not all programs/choreograpgy are about telling a story, and they certainly don't have to be. They do, however, all need to *interpret* the music.
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- Nov 12, 2009
I wonder how people could put so much attention to tano , when I watched them I almost didn't care about tano at all but other details.
Btw, Sotskova is lovely, I hope she has better year and music cut next season.
And Elizabet TURSYNBAEVA
I like Sotskova and Tursy a lot too. They are both so elegant and graceful.
This season was tough for Sotskova because of the injury she had late last season and because she's been growing so quickly (this interview http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/20819.html with her coach mentions she grew almost 15 cm since last season) which caused constant adjustments to her jump technique. Her coach said that she thinks next season will be better and wants Mariya to get more opportunities to compete because she thinks it will help with her self confidence and consistency.
That's a beautiful program!
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The essence of figure skating as a sport, as succinctly expressed as possible.
Very well put.
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I'm sure most people would consider telling a story set to music to be interpreting the music. It might not be to your expectation, pleasure, or standards but its still an interpretation. One that some may even find to be compelling.
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- Jul 27, 2003
You are missing my point. I was pointing out that one should not have to know in advanced, through reading commentary or detailed explanation on what the skater is trying to do / portray in order to "get" or appreciate their actual performance. That's not what performance art is really about. But I don't have a problem with skaters explaining the idea behind their program as it usually enhances the impression when you watch the actual performance.
But the problem I have with Serafima's skating is not even whether her interpretation is good or not. To be honest, IMO any of the medalists here is at the level where we can actually start discussing their interpretation. What I don't like about Serafima's performance is how generally messy and out-of-control it is, like in a you-should-really-take-some-dance-lessons-to-learn-to-express-and-control-your-movement-at-the-same-time kind of way. I really don't think she should be getting higher PCS than Wakaba because of that.
Another thing is that I never said telling a story set to music is NOT interpreting the music. What I said was the opposite: just because a skater doesn't have a program that's set to tell a particular story, or to portray a specific role, it doesn't make the choreography any lesser, as long as the music itself is being interpreted through movement. If everyone had to skate to tell an explicit story, what's a skater supposed to do if they decided to skate to a piece of music that doesn't have a story to begin with?
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