2015 Junior Worlds Men's Short Program March 6

[Sandpiper]

You have a situation where you got 4 out of the top 10 who competed at 4CC or Euros...I feel there was a bit of a senior pcs boost if they skated relatively clean. This is different from past years where they were at juniors after doing senior GP because they were too young. It was different than Yu/Jin in pairs since they didn't get to do 4CC (and judges didn't really give them that much of a boost relative to Seguin/Billodeau, who had been in juniors all year.

This makes a good case for that "Don't go back to juniors if you did seniors" rule they proposed. Though on the other hand it shuts the door competition wise for skaters from smaller countries who can't qualify for Worlds...

It doesn't seem to be this though... Shoma gets crazy GOE for his jumps everywhere, and so far I haven't seen a single justifiable reason why (the explanation seems to be, because he's "overall" a better skater than everyone else, he gets higher marks for everything. In which case, I say, let's bring back 6.0. What's the point of all this TES/PCS thing?)

Like you said, Yu/Jin got no boost (and frankly I thought they were underscored in PCS). How is competing in the GP series/GPF less boost-worthy than Europeans/4CC? Also, Adian was at Europeans--he got pretty atrocious marks there and lower PCS than Sasha Petrov here. (I personally would give Sasha an even bigger PCS advantage than what he got, but it's quite rare to see the country's #1, who went to Europeans and medalled at senior Nationals, receive lower PCS than the #2. And said #1 also had the cleaner jumps. If competing in seniors was such a dealbreaker, this wouldn't have happened).

Kim Jin Seo also competed in seniors, and he didn't get particularly generous marks.

I do think there should be some kind of parametres to prevent Jr-Sr hopping at any time, but in the case of Shoma's marks, I think it's just how the judges score him. Has nothing to do with the "come from seniors" marks.

 

[stryke]

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/20882.html

- You will have to speak to the adult world championships in Shanghai (China). Enough energy and emotion?
- I was not so much starts. At the same Sasha Petrova more, not to mention about Lisa Tuktamysheva. I am sure that the forces and emotions on Shanghai enough.

This interviewer infers Adyan is skating at Worlds too?

 

[adelia]

Oh please, Shoma's PCS (and GOE) boost was not based on having skated at 4CC. Both Russian guys have skated in a number of senior internationals this season. In fact, Adian is already a senior skater. But today they received nowhere near the PCS they received at senior level.

 

[Mrs. P]

It doesn't seem to be this though... Shoma gets crazy GOE for his jumps everywhere, and so far I haven't seen a single justifiable reason why (the explanation seems to be, because he's "overall" a better skater than everyone else, he gets higher marks for everything. In which case, I say, let's bring back 6.0. What's the point of all this TES/PCS thing?)

Like you said, Yu/Jin got no boost (and frankly I thought they were underscored in PCS). How is competing in the GP series/GPF less boost-worthy than Europeans/4CC? Also, Adian was at Europeans--he got pretty atrocious marks there and lower PCS than Sasha Petrov here. (I personally would give Sasha an even bigger PCS advantage than what he got, but it's quite rare to see the country's #1, who went to Europeans and medalled at senior Nationals, receive lower PCS than the #2. And said #1 also had the cleaner jumps. If competing in seniors was such a dealbreaker, this wouldn't have happened).

Kim Jin Seo also competed in seniors, and he didn't get particularly generous marks.

I do think there should be some kind of parametres to prevent Jr-Sr hopping at any time, but in the case of Shoma's marks, I think it's just how the judges score him. Has nothing to do with the "come from seniors" marks.

I think it plays into it though. To what extent, I think varies with the skater. We know reputation judging is a real thing. Shoma was 2nd in the SP at 4CC with a huge score. I think it would be really hard for the judges to go back and give "junior-level PCS" because his benchmark has increased. He's seen as a superior skater relative to the rest if the field coming in before anyone even starts skating.

Not everyone will get the same level of boost, but I do think competing against a tougher field in seniors can help you stand out when there's a lower level of competition in juniors.

 

[Chemistry66]

Canada's singles skaters really aren't having a good competition, ouch. Only one of the four made the FS.

 

[rite of spring]

That's the way how you look at this. If we talk only about competitiors here, he deserved for this 3A at best +2. But when you compare this 3A to 3A of Hanyu from much more difficult entry, transitions out of it, much higher, much longer and better landing, and you will see he is getting the same GOE as Hanyu for his 3A then I have a little headache :scratch:

I know what you mean. Yuzuru's axel is the best in the field and it seems unfair that Shoma's getting same kind of scores, but isn't that more of a systematic problem then a judging problem? If the judges start judging 8 bullets with Yuzuru standards, there will be many skaters in senior level who would be lucky to even get a goe higher than 0.

 

[Mrs. P]

Oh please, Shoma's PCS (and GOE) boost was not based on having skated at 4CC. Both Russian guys have skated in a number of senior internationals this season. In fact, Adian is already a senior skater. But today they received nowhere near the PCS they received at senior level.

Adien got higher PCS actually. He was at 31-32 in seniors and he got 34 here. Petrov is not a similar case as he's only done a few senior Bs, ie he got his feet wet but he's hardly a full-blown senior. In any case he also beat his PB in PCS from Warsaw Cup, which he did as a senior.

 

[adelia]

Adien got higher PCS actually. He was at 31-32 in seniors and he got 34 here.

Well, good for him. Must be nice knowing that even after the slight boost, he's still considered vastly inferior to Shoma.

 

[SkateToronto]

Team Canada makes my head hurt.

 

[yyyskate]

Roman, take your time, and keep healthy, 3A will come, I love your skating!
missed Roman's sp though.:hopelessness: where can I watch it?

 

[silverfoxes]

http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/20882.html

- You will have to speak to the adult world championships in Shanghai (China). Enough energy and emotion?
- I was not so much starts. At the same Sasha Petrova more, not to mention about Lisa Tuktamysheva. I am sure that the forces and emotions on Shanghai enough.

This interviewer infers Adyan is skating at Worlds too?

The Worlds entries were published today & Maxim & Sergei are confirmed, Adian is the second alternate after Menshov. I wonder if he just means that he would be prepared to skate there if it came to that. Or the journalist made a mistake. I'd usually just chalk it up to Google Translate, but even on VK, Russians are confused by the article. :scratch:

 

[Sandpiper]

Adien got higher PCS actually. He was at 31-32 in seniors and he got 34 here. Petrov is not a similar case as he's only done a few senior Bs, ie he got his feet wet but he's hardly a full-blown senior. In any case he also beat his PB in PCS from Warsaw Cup, which he did as a senior.

Adian's skating is markedly better here than it was during his senior performances. He had more complex transitions and better expression, since he didn't need to worry about the quad. Yes, he messed up his spins, because of back problems, but it's still a better skate overall. I can see where the PCS come from.

I would agree that Shoma skating in Senior Nationals and 4CC and actually doing so well certainly didn't hurt. (And Adian's senior debut didn't go too well). But honestly, some of Shoma's marks look overblown not only compared to Adian/Sasha, but also compared to "actual seniors" (e.g. Han Yan, Josh).

 

[Crossover]

I really hope that Boyang nails his jumps in FS tomorrow since he has to catch up the gap from the SP, so he can make it in the podium. I think the elements other than jumps are really improved than before.

 

[Mrs. P]

Adian's skating is markedly better here than it was during his senior performances. He had more complex transitions and better expression, since he didn't need to worry about the quad. Yes, he messed up his spins, because of back problems, but it's still a better skate overall. I can see where the PCS come from.

I would agree that Shoma skating in Senior Nationals and 4CC and actually doing so well certainly didn't hurt. (And Adian's senior debut didn't go too well). But honestly, some of Shoma's marks look overblown not only compared to Adian/Sasha, but also compared to "actual seniors" (e.g. Han Yan, Josh).

Those are good points. Honestly, I'm not personally outraged as I have no skin in the game for any particular skater, but thinking of this from an academic standpoint. Is it that Shoma stands out from THIS field that he is getting such a boost while Han and Josh had a much more comparable/tougher field? Ie do they want to reward him MORE because he stand out so much from the field? Or do they view it as a senior level skate that happened to occur in juniors?

 

[yyyskate]

me 2, I hope Boyang and Nathan, nail their 3 quad LP and He Zhang(big white) nail his quad and 3A as well

 

[sunnystars]

Roman, take your time, and keep healthy, 3A will come, I love your skating!
missed Roman's sp though.:hopelessness: where can I watch it?

I agree, take your time! hope to see Roman have a better skate in the LP event. I really like his LP too

 

[Sandpiper]

Those are good points. Honestly, I'm not personally outraged as I have no skin in the game for any particular skater, but thinking of this from an academic standpoint. Is it that Shoma stands out from THIS field that he is getting such a boost while Han and Josh had a much more comparable/tougher field? Ie do they want to reward him MORE because he stand out so much from the field? Or do they view it as a senior level skate that happened to occur in juniors?

Head-to-head, at 4CC SP:

Denis Ten: +2.00, 10.50
Han Yan: +2.43, 10.93
Takahito Mura: +1.43, 9.93
Joshua Farris: + 1.57, 10.07
Shoma Uno: +2.00, 10.50

I'd say Shoma is 3A GOE is overscored even compared to these seniors, not just compared to this junior field.

How I would've scored it, just for fun:
Denis Ten: +2
Han Yan +2.5
Mura: + 1.5 (a bit scratchy, not quite his best... his quad is his better jump)
Josh: +1.75 (not quite the caliber of Nationals, but even his subpar is better than most)
Shoma: +1 (nice difficult entry, but there's nothing else special about the jump).

Generally in line with what the judges did, with the major exception of Shoma.

 

[dorispulaski]

Canada's singles skaters really aren't having a good competition, ouch. Only one of the four made the FS.

Margalik (Canadian skating for Argentina) made it too!

 

[Yunamao]

Roman, take your time, and keep healthy, 3A will come, I love your skating!
missed Roman's sp though.:hopelessness: where can I watch it?

Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KUFKb_sp3w
And his FP is a beauty. He is the kind of skater whom I don't mind the jumps because the rest is gorgeous.

 

[euroskate]

just watched uno. he is the next Skating good. he has just evrything