2015 Worlds Short Dance March 25

[Meoima]

After watching the whole I still don't get how C/B got 74. And I don't event look at their whole body, I look at the edges and legs most of the time.

 

[Astrid56]

After watching the whole I still don't get how C/B got 74. And I don't event look at their whole body, I look at the edges and legs most of the time.

Just wondering, are you saying the judges in Rostelecom, Skate America, GP and even the US Nationals were all wrong in giving C/B high marks? The Euro commentators thought their SD skating performance was spectacular!

 

[BlackPack]

How is this sudden? I don't know how they are superior or untouchable to everyone else? If you look at the 4CC results, C/B had a bigger lead over W/P going into the FD (compared with Worlds), but W/P still won. Scores may be inflated for most of the top teams, but placement and score differential is essentially the same... and W/P would theoretically be in a better position now than they were at 4CC.

C&B's ascent has been very quick, considering they never won a World medal and the fact they're a relatively new team. Their programs are technically rich but artistically few people are saying they are masterpieces. Since last year, they have been winning things left and right, sometimes second to only W&P who were in the beginning a higher ranked team. I'm not sure they should have that big a lead or should be frequently getting 1st with that SD. For me, that is sudden and quick. I can understand it if they are leading with incredible programs, but that's not the case.

 

[Skater Boy]

I missed the 4CC.... if that's the case, I'm even more baffled. How did C&B suddenly become the V&M or D&W of ice dancing? It's like saying they're superior and untouchable in relation to everyone else, and I think all the top teams are closer in ability and talent the results show.

What's more baffling is rewarding the Shibs in 4CC and then crucifying them at Worlds, more or less putting them out of medal contention. Certainly, the Shibs should be ahead of C&L and possibly P&C and Ruslena.

Please..... I hope the Canadian Orser Curse doesn't extend to Kaitlyn and Andrew too. If they get silver again, I may just not watch skating until 2018.

Remember Liz Manley, Dubreil and Lauzon, Stoijko - the curse is a reality

 

[dorispulaski]

Papadakis and Cizeron's ascent has been a lot faster. The French fed thought they were worse than Carron & Jones last year, and did not send them to tbe Olympics.

In both cases, a long-time top team has retired, and a newer, younger team has worked like crazy to improve themselves to grasp the top spot in their country.

And these days, when you are better technically, you don't get your elements downgraded. C&B have been getting top technical marks all year because they are making fewer mistakes than others. It is telling that in a thread full of dislike for Chock and Bates, that no one has so far pointed out an error that the tech panel missed in this performance of their short dance. The questions people have raised about their twizzles are GOE issues, not level issues. And GOE in dance, as in singles, is gotten by considering both the good and bad features, and adding them up.

Cappellini & Lanotte won over Weaver and Poje last year exactly because of W&P making more technical errors in the SD, despite C&L having shallower edges than C&B. It is not an unprecedented situation for W&P to have these kinds of problems. C&L were coached by Igor last year. Getting his teams to hit their key points is something Igor does very well. Other coaches apparently not as well, so far. C&B did not get the GOE and PCS of some of the other teams, but they made no errors.

Meanwhile, no one seems to be complaing about P&C's timing PCS grade, which I certainly would. Their timing is not up to the level of other top teams yet. They even lost a key point due to it. Their problems were not helped by the flamenco music they chose, which has very fast beats. To skate on the beat to that sort of stuff, you have to step on every third beat or so. It is hard to do. The result is that many teams do not do that well, P&C being one of them. Their FD is lovely, but IMO their SD gets somewhat better PCS than it should because of the aura of their FD.

 

[Meoima]

Just wondering, are you saying the judges in Rostelecom, Skate America, GP and even the US Nationals were all wrong in giving C/B high marks? The Euro commentators thought their SD skating performance was spectacular!

I think they deserve high mark, but 74??

 

[dorispulaski]

Their marks were driven by getting high levels, not by outrageous GOE or PCS. There is more than one way to get to 74. In fact, their lift was a hair undermarked by some of the judges, I thought.

 

[BlackPack]

P&C's SD actually has been my favorite despite consistent problems with steps, twizzles, awkward moments, the unrefined ending pose, etc. throughout the season. I do agree the music is difficult to skate to with the elements they're expected to do, but it's also why I like their SD - slightly different than the traditional PDs.

That is surely true that P&C's SD ascent has been incredibly fast compared to C&B. But at the moment, P&C are making enough mistakes that they can't be ranked higher.

But winning because you make the fewest mistakes or because you get the levels right is somewhat disappointing when the programs are kind of bland. C&B's lift and GOE was outstanding, and I was most impressed with that huge ice coverage of their footwork.

W&P has had consistent problems with nerves, though never really totally bombing. Twizzles and slight mistakes during transitions when they're nervous have been a problem. Should that cost them last year's Gold though?

Last year, C&L also won because they made the fewest mistakes, not because they were the most spectacular ice dancing performances. I find that hard to root for. Is this year going to be the same? I hope not.

 

[demarinis5]

Papadakis and Cizeron's ascent has been a lot faster. The French fed thought they were worse than Carron & Jones last year, and did not send them to tbe Olympics.

In both cases, a long-time top team has retired, and a newer, younger team has worked like crazy to improve themselves to grasp the top spot in their country.

And these days, when you are better technically, you don't get your elements downgraded. C&B have been getting top technical marks all year because they are making fewer mistakes than others. It is telling that in a thread full of dislike for Chock and Bates, that no one has so far pointed out an error that the tech panel missed in this performance of their short dance. The questions people have raised about their twizzles are GOE issues, not level issues. And GOE in dance, as in singles, is gotten by considering both the good and bad features, and adding them up.

Cappellini & Lanotte won over Weaver and Poje last year exactly because of W&P making more technical errors in the SD, despite C&L having shallower edges than C&B. It is not an unprecedented situation for W&P to have these kinds of problems. C&L were coached by Igor last year. Getting his teams to hit their key points is something Igor does very well. Other coaches apparently not as well, so far. C&B did not get the GOE and PCS of some of the other teams, but they made no errors.

Meanwhile, no one seems to be complaing about P&C's timing PCS grade, which I certainly would. Their timing is not up to the level of other top teams yet. They even lost a key point due to it. Their problems were not helped by the flamenco music they chose, which has very fast beats. To skate on the beat to that sort of stuff, you have to step on every third beat or so. It is hard to do. The result is that many teams do not do that well, P&C being one of them. Their FD is lovely, but IMO their SD gets somewhat better PCS than it should because of the aura of their FD.

Thank you Doris!

 

[zytolda]

No no no Please no repeat of last year - maybe i am crazy but i would like to remember program that win - not the couple who made fewest mistakes,

P&C's SD actually has been my favorite despite consistent problems with steps, twizzles, awkward moments, the unrefined ending pose, etc. throughout the season. I do agree the music is difficult to skate to with the elements they're expected to do, but it's also why I like their SD - slightly different than the traditional PDs.

That is surely true that P&C's SD ascent has been incredibly fast compared to C&B. But at the moment, P&C are making enough mistakes that they can't be ranked higher.

But winning because you make the fewest mistakes or because you get the levels right is somewhat disappointing when the programs are kind of bland. C&B's lift and GOE was outstanding, and I was most impressed with that huge ice coverage of their footwork.

W&P has had consistent problems with nerves, though never really totally bombing. Twizzles and slight mistakes during transitions when they're nervous have been a problem. Should that cost them last year's Gold though?

Last year, C&L also won because they made the fewest mistakes, not because they were the most spectacular ice dancing performances. I find that hard to root for. Is this year going to be the same? I hope not.

 

[Alba]

I think they deserve high mark, but 74??

But this is not only for the dance though. Scores have been increased in all disciplines.

No no no Please no repeat of last year - maybe i am crazy but i would like to remember program that win - not the couple who made fewest mistakes,

Well, it's the right thing to do though, isn't it? The ones who don't make mistakes, or less mistakes, should be rewarded even if we might not like their programs or them as a couple. On the other hand I'm against punishing couples for a mistake more than it should be.

 

[bramweld]

Well the team that can do that is P/C.

 

[chuckm]

There was no US judge on the panel for the SD, but there will be for the FD.

 

[beki]

Papadakis and Cizeron's ascent has been a lot faster. The French fed thought they were worse than Carron & Jones last year, and did not send them to tbe Olympics.

In both cases, a long-time top team has retired, and a newer, younger team has worked like crazy to improve themselves to grasp the top spot in their country.

I thought that P/C actually used to be held down a bit—there was some internal French politics with Didier, wasn't there? So their rise and improvement is significant but not as meteoric as it seems.

 

[dorispulaski]

Check out the dings from the tech panel they received at 2013 Rostelecom Cup. It was meteoric.

 

[Alba]

Check out the dings from the tech panel they received at 2013 Rostelecom Cup. It was meteoric.

Also some couples retired, some splitting or injured, like B&S. So that's another reason as well.

 

[evangeline]

Papadakis and Cizeron's ascent has been a lot faster. The French fed thought they were worse than Carron & Jones last year, and did not send them to the Olympics.

Wasn't this because Didier Gailhaguet had a big beef against Muriel Zazoui's school in Lyon and was actively trying to screw over Papadakis/Cizeron for a long time so that they would leave Zazoui? I recall there was all this drama about Gailhaguet cutting Papadakis/Cizeron's federation funding and refusing to let the federation's tech specialists go to Lyon.

Now that Papadakis/Cizeron have left Zazoui for Montreal, all seems to be well between them and Gailhaguet/the French fed.

 

[Art&Sport]

Wow, the politics of Ice Dance, hot and heavy once again! :shocked:

 

[LauraV]

While I am not particularly enthused about C/B's SD, I do think they have an exciting FD, which I like quite a lot.

W/P and P/C also have FDs that are better than their SDs, so I think the FD is going to be be exciting - all three teams competing with their strong suits.


Unfortunately, while I love the Shibs' SD (best of the season) their FD has not been their strong suit, so I am tempering my expectations for them. Hope they skate as well as possible, of course.

I have no idea what to expect from C/L at this point.......

 

[auser]

But this is not only for the dance though. Scores have been increased in all disciplines.



Well, it's the right thing to do though, isn't it? The ones who don't make mistakes, or less mistakes, should be rewarded even if we might not like their programs or them as a couple. On the other hand I'm against punishing couples for a mistake more than it should be.

Yes to this!:agree: