2017 U.S. Nationals Championship Ladies FS
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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I just watched this again on the big teevee (west coast time delay), and I think the results are very fair. I'm a huge Ashley fan, an she skated extremely well. But Karen had an extra spark tonight, and her spins are beyond gorgeous. It was a close result, and it really could have gone either way, but I'm quite happy with the color of the medal each lady is wearing.
So sad for Mirai, her reaction was heartbreaking. And while I'm sad for Gracie, I'm not at all surprised. At this point, I would not be at all behind the idea of her going to Worlds. If she genuinelly loves this sport and want to make a true comeback, she just needs to scrap these programs, lose these memories and start fresh to try again next year.
So sad for Mirai, her reaction was heartbreaking. And while I'm sad for Gracie, I'm not at all surprised. At this point, I would not be at all behind the idea of her going to Worlds. If she genuinelly loves this sport and want to make a true comeback, she just needs to scrap these programs, lose these memories and start fresh to try again next year.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Ashley and Karen will both be slammed for under rotations, although the panel here ignored many of them except for Ashley in the LP. I don't think Mariah has ever skated two clean programs in one event. I think they're trying to position Karen as the next big US skater, which is fine because she has many great qualities, so maybe going to worlds as the US champ will help her marks a bit. However, the US judges have always liked these Naomi Nari Nam-like skaters with big jumps and great spins, and I don't know if the international judges are willing to look past the lack of refinement.
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We will probably know by tonight or tomorrow?
Chen is the reigning National champion. Even Russians would not be that cruel.
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- Feb 17, 2010
The top 3 have to be the team. One is the national champ, the next two had the best GP results against the best women in the world. It's a done deal IMO.
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There really is no comparison between the 2 scenarios. In the 2014 season, Wagner had won silver at Skate America, gold at Trophee Eric Bompard, which advanced her to the Grand Prix Final where she won bronze. The pewter (4th) at Nationals was Ashley's only blemish of that season. The USFSA had more than enough justification for selecting Ashley over Mirai. Gold placed 5th at Skate America, 8th at Trophee Eric Bompard, and 6th at Golden Spin of Zagreb and only managed 6th at Nationals in a season plagued with numerous falls and popped jumps. It's an absurd suspension of reality for Gracie or Frank to suggest that Gold belongs on the World team this season when she has not once skated with any sense of confidence or triumph.
Mariah does have the best LP of the US ladies this season :agree: and I think the national judges saw it that way too.
She flubbed the first 2 jumping passes and yet scored only 7 points lower then a close to perfect Karen, who was leader after the SP. That's pretty amazing considering Mariah had to skate in the second to last group and fighting to stay top 10 while Karen was in the last and fighting for the gold.
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- Mar 23, 2014
What URs did Karen have this weekend other than on her combos? I really thought everything else looked fully around - can't say the same for Ashley.
But yeah, tech panel will play a major role in how US ladies do at Worlds.
As for Karen's lack of refinement - it never hurt Elena Radionova...
But yeah, tech panel will play a major role in how US ladies do at Worlds.
As for Karen's lack of refinement - it never hurt Elena Radionova...
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- Jan 23, 2009
It was such a dream come true! I hope Caroline gets to go to 4CC
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- Jun 21, 2003
But maybe they won't under-rotate at Worlds. Or maybe they will under-rotate, but will get away with it.
But maybe she will at 2017 Worlds.
I don't think "they" are trying to position anyone. I think Karen skated the best and won the championship.
Truth be known, I kind of like big jumps and great spins, too.
Based on these selections, would it still be Ashley, Karen&Mariah?
Tier 1
- 2017 U.S. Figure Skating Championships
- 2016 ISU Grand Prix Final
- 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships
Tier 2
- 2016 Grand Prix Series Competitions
- 2016 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships
Tier 3
- 2016 Challenger Series Events and other senior international competitions
- 2016 U.S. Figure Skating Championships
- 2016 World Junior Figure Skating Championships
- 2016 ISU Junior Grand Prix Final
Tier 1
- 2017 U.S. Figure Skating Championships
- 2016 ISU Grand Prix Final
- 2016 ISU World Figure Skating Championships
Tier 2
- 2016 Grand Prix Series Competitions
- 2016 Four Continents Figure Skating Championships
Tier 3
- 2016 Challenger Series Events and other senior international competitions
- 2016 U.S. Figure Skating Championships
- 2016 World Junior Figure Skating Championships
- 2016 ISU Junior Grand Prix Final
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2015
In the 2010-2011 season, Gracie didn't qualify for nationals but came back strong the next season with a gold at her only junior grand prix assignment, junior national champ title, and a junior worlds silver. Hopefully not being able to go to worlds will help her as not being able to go to nationals that season.
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No one is propping her up. She skated two clean, beautiful programs. Who was she "propped" over?
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- Nov 19, 2010
Maybe the federation forgot to send her a memo not to perform well at the Nationals. Or she was too audacious to ignore the command.
To me at least, Karen's 3Lz-3T in both programs were UR and she wasn't called on either of them or even flagged for a review. Ashley's were UR as well, but (again, IMO) weren't as apparent in real-time and she wasn't given the same benefit of the doubt.
This is a problem with scoring at US nationals. It's one thing if the scores are inflated across the board and everyone is judged consistently, but ignoring URs for some skaters while nitpicking others or massively inflating PCS far beyond what skaters would get internationally is a problem. Karen got an 11-point boost in PCS from her GP scores, while Ashley got 1-2 points extra. It's the same reason Mirai was left off the 2014 Olympic team (and I like Mirai and actively root for her!) - judges at nationals didn't call her URs and gave her PCS that she'd never get internationally, and that was recognized by the selection panel when Mirai was left off the team. It's heartbreaking, but they're not doing the skaters any favors by operating this way.
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I think they have already committed an "absurd suspension of reality" when they mentioned Michelle Kwan 2006 as a example for Gracie potentially petitioning a spot on the team if she didn't place top 3
That takes guts when you don't even have a single world, GPF, or Olympic (not counting the team) medal under your belt :disagree:Nothing would surprise me but considering the season Gracie has had it would be a cruel and unusual punishment for the poor girl's team to even think of trying to petition and then having it most certainly rejected
Don't worry-they won't send Mirai. Sending Gracie would be the ultimate in hope over experience.
hmmm...not really...If all the events in each tier are actually weighted equally (big if) then (forgetting Ashley since she's a lock)....
Tier 1:
At this event karen won (agree or not), while Mariah 3rd and Mirai 4th. None of the 3 qualed for GPF, and Mirai placed 10th at worlds last year. So karen obviously has the edge in this category, though Mirai has worlds experience.
Tier 2:
Mirai didn't do great (9th, 5th) at GP events, but her silver at FCC was definitely a big boost. Karen did just as poorly (7th, 6th), even losing to Mirai at GPJPN, and finished 12th (10 spots below Mirai) at FCC last year. Mariah did very well in her single GP (2nd), but had no FCC experience. So in this category Mirai and mariah have the edge over Karen.
Tier 3:
Mirai WON a CS event AND had a petwer medal at last years Nationals. Karen finished 3rd and 7th at two CS events and finished 8th last year. Mariah got 2, 3, 4 at three CS events and finished 11th at least years nationals. Mirai by far wins this category, Mariah and Karen about equal.
So objectively speaking, the three are about on a level playing field...
(Or maybe I'm just too hopeful for Mirai)
I think Karen Chen has a lot of potential- good spins, huge jumps, etc. But, IMO, Ashley should've won the FS. Given what happened in the short, the final result may still be correct- Ashley was judged generously in the short (the 2A was way short) and had she been lower down, I don't know if she could've made up the difference even if the free skate had been scored right. (I'd have had Ashley around 141 and Karen around 137 for tonight; I think Karen should've been around 70 for her SP, Ashley around 67).
Karen's score tonight was pretty generous considering she only did 6 clean triples (and her 3T on the back end of the 3Z-3T looked underrotated to me). Plus, her PCS isn't on the level of Ashley's if we're talking about performance, composition, and interpretation. I'm not surprised at her score given what Mariah Bell got, but I'm not thrilled.
FWIW, I think Mariah's program was great after the 3 jump combo. The beginning was very tense- she was barely performing at all- and the jumps were sloppy. She should be around 129.
Ashley was her own worst enemy- bad 2A in the short, UR on the 3T, no 2T, and she lost a level on her last spin.
I think Karen and Ashley should go to Worlds. I'd leave the 3rd spot open and make it dependent on 4CC. Especially if Ashley decides she doesn't want to go, the USFS should send Karen, Mariah, and Gracie. We should send the skaters to Worlds who have the best chance to get 3 spots for Pyeongchang. If Gracie's head is on straight, that includes her. Let's give her one more chance to pull it together.
Karen's score tonight was pretty generous considering she only did 6 clean triples (and her 3T on the back end of the 3Z-3T looked underrotated to me). Plus, her PCS isn't on the level of Ashley's if we're talking about performance, composition, and interpretation. I'm not surprised at her score given what Mariah Bell got, but I'm not thrilled.
FWIW, I think Mariah's program was great after the 3 jump combo. The beginning was very tense- she was barely performing at all- and the jumps were sloppy. She should be around 129.
Ashley was her own worst enemy- bad 2A in the short, UR on the 3T, no 2T, and she lost a level on her last spin.
I think Karen and Ashley should go to Worlds. I'd leave the 3rd spot open and make it dependent on 4CC. Especially if Ashley decides she doesn't want to go, the USFS should send Karen, Mariah, and Gracie. We should send the skaters to Worlds who have the best chance to get 3 spots for Pyeongchang. If Gracie's head is on straight, that includes her. Let's give her one more chance to pull it together.
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