I'm the rink now. Don't know how it looked through a screen, but live Deanna and Bart were amazing! Biggest applause of the night and we'll earned.
:yes2:
I'm the rink now. Don't know how it looked through a screen, but live Deanna and Bart were amazing! Biggest applause of the night and we'll earned.
The scoring was OK. The judges are competent. On to the LP. :yes:
I think USFSA do not hate D/F abs C/T but D/F are dealing with somewhat being punished and have slipped in the game of politics which plays a big part in figure skating as we know. Sure they have not helped themselves but today they did look stronger then any previous competition and although Frazier did a double they clearly have improved. Hopefully they have tough skin and keep going after this season. C/T unfortunately are also held down and low on the political ladder due to Tran not a US Citizen.
Not a bad assessment, but not exactly correct either. D/F are not 'being punished' as you term it. USFS has been very supportive toward D/F after Worlds 2017, in encouraging them not to give up. Haven came back from a serious injury, and she should be praised for even being able to skate again. It's unfortunately the ISU who doesn't obviously know how to appreciate the increased depth among pairs internationally. They should have allowed more teams to qualify for the fp, especially with new and good teams coming up from juniors.
While C/T are held down, it's largely because of the fact they haven't figured out how to resolve their SBS jump issues. Of course, politically Mervin can't make the Olympics, but with a clean performance, they could have made a statement for being on the World team at least. Too bad they didn't because they are one of the best stylistic teams in the world. The problem is they were unable to get off to a good start when they first joined up and there was excitement around their pairing. Then they began having jumping difficulties, which is probably caused by them having different technique which caused unison problems, and resultant psychological impact on their confidence.
True, but I think they have actually made improvements this year. Their pair elements and their throws are so much better this year. They seem like more of a pair. It is just the SBS jumps. They have to relearn their technique or something. It was a problem in their previous pairings and together. Hope they focus on SBS jumps the entire offseason and come back landing them because besides SK/K they are the only US pairs team who skates big.
Ah stop with throwing shade. It's not just Haven/Brandon's fault. The ISU rules are in error with the increased depth in pairs worldwide. The ISU should have permitted more teams to qualify. The stakes were already loaded against U.S. teams, and both U.S. teams at Worlds in 2017 were coming back from serious health issues. The fact that Haven Denney is even skating again after the type of surgery she sustained on her knee should be cause for celebration.
Haven had trouble with landing her triples cleanly last year, and with an entire season off rehabbing, they both had a lot to overcome in their first season back. And they can hold their heads up for how they've come through, and are improving in some areas this season. They were trying to hard at Worlds 2017 and they blew it on a couple of elements in pairs. End of story. Should they now be tarred and feathered and run out on a rail forever? They are not to be blamed. They are a good team with very strong lifts and they've improved aesthetically. As Brooke Castile noted, D/F mainly need to improve consistent speed and flow, as well as fully regain their confidence.
Ah stop with throwing shade. It's not just Haven/Brandon's fault. The ISU rules are in error with the increased depth in pairs worldwide. The ISU should have permitted more teams to qualify. The stakes were already loaded against U.S. teams, and both U.S. teams at Worlds in 2017 were coming back from serious health issues. The fact that Haven Denney is even skating again after the type of surgery she sustained on her knee should be cause for celebration.
Haven had trouble with landing her triples cleanly last year, and with an entire season off rehabbing, they both had a lot to overcome in their first season back. And they can hold their heads up for how they've come through, and are improving in some areas this season. They were trying to hard at Worlds 2017 and they blew it on a couple of elements in pairs. End of story. Should they now be tarred and feathered and run out on a rail forever? They are not to be blamed. They are a good team with very strong lifts and they've improved aesthetically. As Brooke Castile noted, D/F mainly need to improve consistent speed and flow, as well as fully regain their confidence.
That's true, and to be honest, it's something I've noticed about Americans in general (and I am one). We seem to like to see an upstart step in and show up the experienced ones, and I'm not just talking about figure skating, but in all walks of life. When I say "we," it's an observation about the collective. But I don't like that tendency. To me, it sort of seems like thumbing your nose at experience and the tried-and-true qualities that uphold standards.
But having said that, I'm not immune to the happiness that comes when an exciting new pair makes a splash. It may also be related to the emotional climate they create, which is entirely separate from questions of technique. I'm completely on board with that ... because all of figure skating, for me, is about what the skaters can make me feel, what emotions they can convey through their skating. A sport that relies on technical excellence only does absolutely nothing for me.
I get your point, and in general I think in life its definitely to try new things and go for it!
Maybe I've overthinking things but I think Nationals scoring is putting the wrong thing in the minds of some of these skaters, and it isn't helping anyone. Other countries use Nationals scoring to prop up their strongest skaters, while in the US reputable skaters are scored poorly compared to new faces, which helps no one. Look how much Canada pushes Kaetlyn Osmond despite horrendous skates at Nationals, near perfect PCS scores...new faces have no chance...maybe now it's too late but in the last few years had US propped Ashley up at Nationals (and they would actually be justified in doing so based on international PCS scores), instead of pushing Polina and Karen (neither of whom were getting anything close to their nationals scores internationally) for no apparent reason, perhaps she could be getting higher reputation scores on the international circuit. The debacle in 2014 wouldn't have occured either. In pairs too, erratic judging makes it difficult to cement a national number 1 team (although SK/K have made it clear they are) which affects international scoring. Additionally, this is giving added stress to top skaters who have to worry about placements on World and Olympic teams based on a singular erratically judged event versus a body of work. And skaters who are scored questionably at nationals are deflated when they realize that their scores were highly inflated and not representative of what they deserve or will get internationally. Take Polina, who was hanging with Ashley and Gracie for a few years at nationals, but got much lower scores internationally. Zhang and Bartholomay is another example--they should never have been chosen over D/C in the first place, and they skated well at Olympics and Worlds but never had a chance. Even in 2010, McLaughlin and Brubaker should have gotten a chance but poor nationals scoring pretty much ended their career.
Stellato and Bartholomay deserve to be in 1st. The judges robbed them in the PCS.
Kayne and O'Shea have a terrible twist that should have gotten - GOE but got +. Their program is boring, uninspired and forgettable.
Denney and Frazier skated spastic. The fact that he 'allegedly' practices 30 triple salchows every day and then misses it here when it counts is just ridiculous.
Castelli and Tran are just sad to watch. They NEVER land their side by side jumps. How is that possible? They've been together so long and they each have so much experience in competitions yet they STILL fail every single time. It's almost a joke. I still can't believe they got 2nd last year.
Conclusion- Judging in this event is a complete joke
Stellato and Bartholomay deserve to be in 1st. The judges robbed them in the PCS.
Kayne and O'Shea have a terrible twist that should have gotten - GOE but got +. Their program is boring, uninspired and forgettable.
Denney and Frazier skated spastic. The fact that he 'allegedly' practices 30 triple salchows every day and then misses it here when it counts is just ridiculous.
Castelli and Tran are just sad to watch. They NEVER land their side by side jumps. How is that possible? They've been together so long and they each have so much experience in competitions yet they STILL fail every single time. It's almost a joke. I still can't believe they got 2nd last year.
Conclusion- Judging in this event is a complete joke
My issue with the scoring is the exact opposite of yours. Stellato/Bartholomay skated well for them, but look what they got at Skate America for a similarly skated program. S/B's levels were insane...for instance their twist had no split and not lateral (0 GOE at best), and none of their elements warrant much more than 0 GOE. I think most of the judges here (and viewers and even commentators) don't have a great understanding of pairs skating and how it is scored. I hope this does not result in something like Zhang/Bartholomay going over Denney and Barrett. Johnny is absolutely delusional when he said "They deserve to be in first..." Does he understand how pairs skating is scored? While Denney Fraizer and Castelli Tran have SBS errors, their pair element and skating quality are stronger than S/B...not as good as the Knierms. ANY international judging panel would have Denney Fraizer and Castelli Tran ahead of Stellato and Bartholomay....at skate america in the short D/F with an UR SBS got 63, while S/B got 57 for a clean program....
In pairs too, erratic judging makes it difficult to cement a national number 1 team (although SK/K have made it clear they are) which affects international scoring. Additionally, this is giving added stress to top skaters who have to worry about placements on World and Olympic teams based on a singular erratically judged event versus a body of work. And skaters who are scored questionably at nationals are deflated when they realize that their scores were highly inflated and not representative of what they deserve or will get internationally.
It's true that such erratic judging puts our skaters at a disadvantage internationally. I would much rather we would send our best skaters out with a mantle of confidence born of knowing that they're unquestionably our champions and have our backing.
I think it's reasonable to ask if the national judging panels are comprised of all judges who also judge major international pair events and have a very strong awareness of the quality of pair skating that is rewarded internationally. I have heard of singles judges sometimes judging both singles and pairs, and I'm wondering if they are all experts in both disciplines. I'm curious to know if all of the national judges have judged pairs at a Worlds or 4CC before.