Distribution Of Major Championships 1998–2018

[Sugarpova]

wow CaroLiza u're a hero!
so much structured info thx a lot

& yeeeeeep SPb should host like ASAP!! & I fully support Australia!

& so OT but regarding the talk above lol just right now I read an article with our former Zenit coach Vlastimil Petržela & hilar thing what is shown on tv there about us & how the ppl there look at him like @ some crazy person when he tells em how he loved working here & how amazing our city is such a great person he is!

 

[desertskates]

I have a question for people outside of Europe. How many of you have been to Europeans? I was just thinking about all the events I've been to and I've never been to Europeans. I would love to go because you get to see skaters from so many different countries and since they don't all make it to Worlds, it would give me an opportunity to see some skaters I've never seen.

Hi, Mrrice. I did go to Euros in 2004 in Budapest. I lived in Europe for that year, and made a weekend trip. I saw the Free Dance, Men's long and all of the ladies events. What fun! Hungary was having a great year that year, and the excitement inside the building when Julia Sebestyen won her title was pure electricity. I would not hesitate to make the trip from the US for this event. The skaters from the smaller countries were what really made it exciting. These are people you would otherwise never get a chance to see live. If it's being held in a city that intrigues you, I definitely vote "go or it"! I'm kind of kicking myself for not going to Bratislava this past year, but non-skating life got in the way. Booo!

 

[desertskates]

Thank you so much, CaroLiza_fan for organizing all of this info and putting it up for us to see in an easy to understand format! Skating and geography--two of my favorite things!
I remember in 2000 when there was talk of holding Worlds in Australia, and for whatever reason that did not come to be. I really would like to see them getting a major event, and I think Four Continents would be a great start. I guess time will tell. But I'm sure it would be a great source of pride to the Aussie skaters and fans, and a fun and interesting place for the competitors and fans to travel.

 

[peg]

Thank you so much for your reply, peg. I have often wondered what the Czechs considered themselves, but was too afraid to ask any!

And, it is actually extremely satisfying to hear you back up my assertion that you are Central Europeans. Because any time I try to explain my stance, people just shoot me down (metaphorically, of course).

It is amazing how short people's memories are (or perhaps that should be how narrow their knowledge of history is...) That 40 years of Russian rule is more influential in how people see you than over 900 years as the heart of Germany and then Austria.

Same with Slovenia. 80 years of Serbian rule takes precedence over 400 years as an integral part of Austria.

Just shows how ignorant Westerners are! :disapp:

You can tell that history was my favourite subject at school, can't you!

CaroLiza_fan

Like I said, I'm not 100% sure what Czechs still living in the Czech Republic feel about this, but I know most expats don't like to be called East European.

Since you like history... if you go back quite a ways, Bohemia (the English name for what Czechs call their land) was very much part of the Holy Roman Empire, which included Italy, Germany, Bohemia, and even some parts of France (and many other smaller kingdoms). Our religion was influenced primarily by Rome, and even our alphabet is based entirely on Latin letters (with some accents added). All of this is more consistent with western Europe than most of Eastern Europe.

On the other hand, countries in Eastern Europe have much stronger influences from the Greeks/Constantinople/Byzantine Empire. The Cyrillic alphabet. for example, was developed by a Constantine monk. The religious ceremonies come from the more Orthodox traditions. You can even see differences in architecture, with Eastern Europe being more Byzantine and the Czechs being more influenced by more western traditions. In terms of culture, Prague's closest counterpart was probably Vienna.

 

[Ice Dance]

With regards to Four Continents in Asia, I think it's important to take note of how many times the event has been held in countries without a GP event. This makes perfect sense. It's difficult enough to sell tickets sometimes without splitting those sales between various international events in the same season. (There was a discussion this season, for example, about Skate America suffering due to Worlds). And countries like Korea, Chinese Taipei, and--likewise with regard to the GPF--Spain, do not have the chance to host very many senior international skating events. With the exception of Mexico (which hasn't a natural winter sports following), the countries in North America both have a GP event, while there are obviously more countries in Asia that are not hosting a regular event.

I find the almost complete lack of junior events outside Europe to be more disturbing, since in this case, we aren't just talking about a single event but rather almost all events for athletes at this age level. Obviously, it leads to a lot more travel for junior athletes from countries outside of Europe. I wonder, though, if it doesn't also lead to a bit of a harsher awakening for European athletes breaking out of juniors onto the senior GP where so many more events are held outside Europe.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

You can even see differences in architecture, with Eastern Europe being more Byzantine and the Czechs being more influenced by more western traditions. In terms of culture, Prague's closest counterpart was probably Vienna.

Just want to wrap up this part of the conversation by adding my own experience.

Although I haven't been to either Germany or Austria, I have always had an interest in German culture (largely through being able to receive German TV channels on satellite while growing up).

When I was 17, I went on a school trip to Prague and some nearby towns. And I did find that you did get the feel that you are somewhere that had a big Germanic influence. As you say, the architecture was just like the great cities of Central Europe that I have seen on TV.

That said, my souvenir purchases were mostly Russian. But that was more to do with the fact that I had never seen Russian things before (those were the days before we had broadband, and before we discovered eBay).

I find the almost complete lack of junior events outside Europe to be more disturbing, since in this case, we aren't just talking about a single event but rather almost all events for athletes at this age level. Obviously, it leads to a lot more travel for junior athletes from countries outside of Europe. I wonder, though, if it doesn't also lead to a bit of a harsher awakening for European athletes breaking out of juniors onto the senior GP where so many more events are held outside Europe.

I hadn't actually thought about it much (I'm relatively new to the Junior scene), but you make a lot of good points.

When watching the Junior GP Series this season, it was obvious that nearly all of the events were held in Europe. And, if you look at my previous "little project" about reforming the figure skating calendar (starting in this post), the same was the case last season.

During that project (in post 2), I did attempt to even out the distribution of the Junior GP's across the world (as I did with the Senior GP Series). But, I gave up on making a calendar when it became obvious that there were too many events to fit into too small a space of time.

Although it was obvious that the VAST majority of Senior B's (be they Challenger events or just regular Senior B's) were in Europe, it didn't dawn on me until your comment there now that this also meant that the vast majority of Junior and Novice competitions (not just Junior GP's) were in Europe.

Given that it is schoolchildren that we are talking about, it is not fair to expect Junior and Novice skaters from other continents to travel to Europe every few weeks just so that they can compete in international competitions regularly. Apart from all the fatigue associated with travelling, there is also the expense of the whole thing (flights, accomodation, etc.)!

Basing yourself in Europe eliminates the fatigue, but there is still the expense of buying / renting somewhere to live. And the impact on the development of the child can be high. Whilst some children adjust well to growing up in a different country, others find it all too alien.

And I never would have thought of it the other way round. That having so many competitions in Europe also makes it harder for European skaters when they do come to compete outside Europe. They have grown up with competing in competitions that are relatively close by. They are not used to travelling to different continents, and the effects that it has on your body.

So, yes, I agree that we need to have a more even distribution of International Junior and Novice competitions across the globe. This could partly be done by having more Senior B's in the Americas and the Asia / Pacific region (and maybe even a regular Senior B in Africa, which normally gets overlooked completely). But, these could also be supplemented by stand-alone competitions for Junior and Novice level skaters.

I know this thread is supposed to be about the Major Championships (of course I do - I started the thread!), but this is relevant as the governing bodies like to give Major Championships to countries that have experience of hosting other international figure skating competitions. Specifically Junior GP's and Senior B's.

So, to get the governing bodies to consider bringing the Majors to different countries, we need to get other competitions to those countries first.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[LRK]

Do a lot of countries want to host junior events, though? Of what (very little) I've seen of JGPs, for example, there are many competitors in each event - and barely a soul in the audience. What do they cost to host? And I doubt there is any profit from them. Are there a lot of non-European countries clamouring to host these events who have been denied? And if not - how do you plan to make countries outside Europe offer to host events?

 

[plushyfan]

Come on, peg. As somebody who was born in the Czech Republic when it was under Communist rule, and whose first country of refuge after you left was Austria, I thought you of all people would understand why the Czech Republic was classed as Eastern Europe and Austria was classed as Western Europe.

But, I do agree with what you are saying. This is a paradox that has bothered me for many years.

Most people use the position of the "Iron Curtain" as the division between Western Europe and Eastern Europe:

"From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic, an Iron Curtain has descended across the Continent" - Winston Churchill, 5[SUP]th[/SUP] March 1946​

That is, running along the current Eastern borders of Germany, Austria and Italy.

But, as you have pointed out, using this line does lead to some weird classifications. Like, Finland and Greece are positioned way East, yet are classed as Western Europe.

Personally, I prefer to split the European landmass into more parts than just West and East. Specifically Northern, Western, Central, Eastern and Mediterranean. Thus, I normally class the Czech Republic as Central Europe, along with Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria and Slovenia.

So, rather than using the "Iron Curtain" to separate Eastern Europe, I normally use the current eastern border of Germany, and the pre-war internal border that separated the Austrian and Hungarian parts of the former Austria-Hungary. (The one complication with using this line is Galicia, which was actually Austrian territory, but is classed as Eastern Europe as it is now divided between Poland and the Ukraine).

But, for the purposes of splitting the figure skating world up, it was sufficient to just have the 2 divisions of Europe.

I mightn't like the "West" and "East" model, but in this case it works.

CaroLiza_fan

Hungary was east from the Iron Curtain, but we belong geographically to Central Europe. Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Austro-Hungrian Monarch existed from 1867 to 1918. In the history we faught with the Tatars, the Osman(Turkish) Empire, and the Habsburgs in many wars and buttles. We had revolutions against the Habsburg Hause. And after was born the Monarchy. Many Hungarians didn't like the Compromise 1867, because they thought we weren't independent. But that was a really calmed era we developed so much. In the monarchy were many other nations.

Hungarians are in Europe since CE 895. We had Christian king since 25. December 1000. Hungarians aren't slavic people but there are many slavic countries around our country.

 

[Alex D]

I have a question for people outside of Europe. How many of you have been to Europeans? I was just thinking about all the events I've been to and I've never been to Europeans. I would love to go because you get to see skaters from so many different countries and since they don't all make it to Worlds, it would give me an opportunity to see some skaters I've never seen.

I went to Europeans in the past, like Bern, Zagreb & Co. Unfortunately does it always clash with the Australian Open, so that I have to decide where I go and right now, the Aussie Open are my priority for several reasons. A friend asked me at the Bavarian Open if I might could consider the next Europeans, though and I did not decide it yet. That being said, if I go to figure skating events these days, then only to work there, like as a member of the press. I just want to write about it and as a fan it´s not really worth it for me, as I can not join press conferences or gain access to first hand information. I don't want an ID to save the money for tickets, but to be able to write all those nice columns that I do. so ya, I was going a lot in the past, but right now, not anymore.

 

[Alex D]

Do a lot of countries want to host junior events, though? Of what (very little) I've seen of JGPs, for example, there are many competitors in each event - and barely a soul in the audience. What do they cost to host? And I doubt there is any profit from them. Are there a lot of non-European countries clamouring to host these events who have been denied? And if not - how do you plan to make countries outside Europe offer to host events?

Sadly, junior events are often not that well received by the crowds, unless they are together with the seniors. As for the costs, I do not know about other countries, but in Germany most people working at Junior events do it for free. Former skaters, fan club members or like in my case, people from the press. At our last JGP we had four press members, one guy, however, only came for a few minutes, he was from a local newspaper. :noshake:

As far I can tell, money is one thing, but the bigger issue might be to find people to help with the organization. In theory it sounds easy to find people, as there are fans who don´t mind to open the doors for skaters, who don´t mind to check tickets, make the music and announcements, but the truth is - hardly anyone want´s to work for free these days and it is fully understandable. Life costs money

A profit you don´t make with these events, not even with the bigger skating events, at least in Germany. Worlds might bring money, as you can sell tickets for 600$ and more, as let´s face it, the costs are always the same, you don´t turn on only half the lights at juniors or only do half the ice :sarcasm:

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Hungary was east from the Iron Curtain, but we belong geographically to Central Europe. Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Austro-Hungrian Monarch existed from 1867 to 1918. In the history we faught with the Tatars, the Osman(Turkish) Empire, and the Habsburgs in many wars and buttles. We had revolutions against the Habsburg Hause. And after was born the Monarchy. Many Hungarians didn't like the Compromise 1867, because they thought we weren't independent. But that was a really calmed era we developed so much. In the monarchy were many other nations.

Hungarians are in Europe since CE 895. We had Christian king since 25. December 1000. Hungarians aren't slavic people but there are many slavic countries around our country.

You know, I was dreading you seeing the West or East conversation. Because, I know from what I learnt at school that although the Czechs had a bad relationship with the Russians during the Communist era, the Hungarians had an even more tumultuous one!

Actually, one of my friends that I went to school with has a Hungarian Dad (his Mum is from the same village as my Dad, 5 miles from where I am from). So I always had a bit of an interest in finding out more about the Hungarians.

You know the way that people always talk about the Finnish and Hungarian languages being related to each other, but not to other languages. Well, I found out something interesting a couple of years ago, thanks to being a figure skating fan. The Udmurt language is also a member of the same family as Finnish and Hungarian.

I am SO jealous of you! Not only did you have Júlia Sebestyén and Nóra Hoffmann, but you can lay claim to Kiira Korpi and Liza Tuktamysheva!!!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Do a lot of countries want to host junior events, though? Of what (very little) I've seen of JGPs, for example, there are many competitors in each event - and barely a soul in the audience. What do they cost to host? And I doubt there is any profit from them. Are there a lot of non-European countries clamouring to host these events who have been denied? And if not - how do you plan to make countries outside Europe offer to host events?

That is the problem. The general public don't seem interested in Junior events. It is only die-hard figure skating fans, or friends and family of the skaters, that are interested.

So, I do think that the best way of getting more Junior competitions is to have them as part of the bill alongside Senior competitions.

Doing it like this would actually be better all round. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

Sadly, junior events are often not that well received by the crowds, unless they are together with the seniors. As for the costs, I do not know about other countries, but in Germany most people working at Junior events do it for free. Former skaters, fan club members or like in my case, people from the press. At our last JGP we had four press members, one guy, however, only came for a few minutes, he was from a local newspaper. :noshake:

As far I can tell, money is one thing, but the bigger issue might be to find people to help with the organization. In theory it sounds easy to find people, as there are fans who don´t mind to open the doors for skaters, who don´t mind to check tickets, make the music and announcements, but the truth is - hardly anyone want´s to work for free these days and it is fully understandable. Life costs money

A profit you don´t make with these events, not even with the bigger skating events, at least in Germany. Worlds might bring money, as you can sell tickets for 600$ and more, as let´s face it, the costs are always the same, you don´t turn on only half the lights at juniors or only do half the ice :sarcasm:

Everything you have just said is so very true.

Mind you, it would make for very interesting competitions if only half the ice was done, or only have the lights were on...

Extreme figure skating - coming to a rink near you!



CaroLiza_fan

 

[mrrice]

It's sad to me that Junior events haven't really caught on here in the states. Every time I see this performance by Angela Wang it kind of makes me sad. She has a spectacular performance landing some big jumps and combo's that should be receiving huge ovations. Instead cricket's.

Angela Wang GPF 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_BwNmS3dMY

 

[plushyfan]

You know, I was dreading you seeing the West or East conversation. Because, I know from what I learnt at school that although the Czechs had a bad relationship with the Russians during the Communist era, the Hungarians had an even more tumultuous one!

Actually, one of my friends that I went to school with has a Hungarian Dad (his Mum is from the same village as my Dad, 5 miles from where I am from). So I always had a bit of an interest in finding out more about the Hungarians.

You know the way that people always talk about the Finnish and Hungarian languages being related to each other, but not to other languages. Well, I found out something interesting a couple of years ago, thanks to being a figure skating fan. The Udmurt language is also a member of the same family as Finnish and Hungarian.

I am SO jealous of you! Not only did you have Júlia Sebestyén and Nóra Hoffmann, but you can lay claim to Kiira Korpi and Liza Tuktamysheva!!!

CaroLiza_fan

Unfortunaltely I don't understand a word in Finnish or in Udmurt language :no: The Finn and the Udmurt languages are distant relative to the Hungarian.