Skaters who was 1st after SP and falling in 4th place at world ?

[soccerjc77]

It happen to Shoma Uno and Loena Hendrickx this year at World 2024 in Montreal. It happen to Gracie Gold in 2016 World in Boston.
Does this happen often ? Is it more pressure to do the long program while being 1st vs. being 2nd, 3rd and 4th after the short program?

 

[macy]

it's a LOT more pressure if you're leading or in a podium position after the SP, especially for skaters who may have not have been in that position before. it's why you see some skaters falter after winning the short - it's a true test of how well you can handle the pressure and how good of a competitor you are. you know you have others nipping at your heels wanting your spot and the pressure to skate perfectly is incredibly high with so much at stake. usually the skater who leads after the short is waiting an hour between the warmup and their turn to skate in the FS as well, so it's really the ultimate test.

 

[4everchan]

Schizas won the SP at Skate Canada 2022... and ended up 7th... In her case, pressure for sure. It's not always the case though. Shoma has won so many events... what happened ? At the warm up, his timing was completely off. It looked like a bad day at the office... was it pressure ? Maybe. Was it the surprise as he expected Ilia or Adam or Yuma to be first ? Gracie, I would say pressure. Loena : it wasn't pressure. She performed about the same as her practice. She wasn't ready to skate a LP due to her injury. Not enough mileage nor endurance to pull it off.

So it can be as @macy has mentioned.... so many factors linked to the pressure of the skating order. At the same time, it's not absolute science and there can be other cases explained by other reasons like illness or lack of content : I can see a skater winning the SP with a clean performance with one or even two quads being outskated by a few skaters with more ammunition in the LP as well. (or a skater like Maddie who repeats toe loop and salchow... while others back load big lutz combos)

 

[Mathman]

Not Worlds per se, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned Kamila Valieva yet. At the 2022 Olympics she went from 1st in the SP to 5th in the LP and 4th overall.Trusova was opposite: 4th in the SP to 1st in the LP and 2nd overall. Steady-as-she-goes Shcherbakova beat them both with 2nd and 2nd.

A famous example occurred under 6.0 at 1997 Europeans when Ilia Kulik went from 1st to 5th (4th overall) while Alexei Urmanoff went from 6th in the SP to 1st in the LP and 1st overall. At the time this was regarded as so weird that the ISU faulted the "majority of ordinals" judging system for allowing such a thing to happen, and replaced majority of ordinals with the "one-by-one" system.

 

[TontoK]

I remember one time a skater from days gone by (Dorothy Hamill, maybe?) said that she always liked to skate second in her group.

It was enough time for the warmup to stay effective, but give a little time to recover, and she got to skate before most of her main rivals.

Of course, this was when truly random draws were a thing, so it was possible to skate second in the group even if leading.

 

[Jeanie19]

I remember one time a skater from days gone by (Dorothy Hamill, maybe?) said that she always liked to skate second in her group.

It was enough time for the warmup to stay effective, but give a little time to recover, and she got to skate before most of her main rivals.

Of course, this was when truly random draws were a thing, so it was possible to skate second in the group even if leading.

If I was a skater that is what I'd want. Evgenia won her first World medal skating 2nd.

 

[TallyT]

Shoma has won so many events... what happened ? At the warm up, his timing was completely off. It looked like a bad day at the office... was it pressure ? Maybe.

I also suspect that the talk in social media etc about 'is he on the decline, is his time over, is he being replaced, might he retire after this' leading up to Worlds (which was totally unfair but oh god does it happen too often) probably had some impact: even if his team tried to keep it from him, he can't have been unaware of it and then, even after a great SP where his strengths could shine it would have added to the pressure going into the FS where the men tend to splatfest anyway... The reasons are so complex and individual, as they are when someone comes from below to win, or waaaay below to podium (hello Adam, and Javi in 2015 GPF). There are a hundred things that can go wrong or right...

I remember one time a skater from days gone by (Dorothy Hamill, maybe?) said that she always liked to skate second in her group.

I think the one thing they all really don't much want is to come after someone who's just skated lights out.

 

[NanaPat]

Another example is Carolina Kostner at 2018 Worlds. She was 1st in SP, 5th in FP for 4th overall. I looked up that comp thinking that might have been Zagitova's stats, but she was 2nd and 7th for 5th overall.

That was the competition where Katelyn Osmond was 4th and 1st for 1st overall.

But the most remarkable come-from-behind skater was Wakaba Higuchi who was 8th and 2nd for 2nd overall.

Sakoto Miahara was just boring with 3rd, 3rd, and 3rd.

 

[Andrina]

Two spectacular remontées from a 4th to a 1st place:

Papadakis/Cizeron at the Worlds 2015.

Savchenko/Massot at the Olympics 2022.

 

[4everchan]

Or Patrick Chan from 5th to 1st at 4CC 2016...

However, to be fair to the OP, comebacks are a completely different animal.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Javier fernandez 2017 worlds - 1st to 4th.

 

[Magill]

Yuzuru Hanyu in Worlds 2017 - 5th after SP to 1st overall (and with a world record).

 

[TontoK]

Two spectacular remontées from a 4th to a 1st place:

Papadakis/Cizeron at the Worlds 2015.

Savchenko/Massot at the Olympics 2022.

Sarah Hughes' Olympic win also fits into this. If I'm remembering correctly, Michelle just barely nipped Irina in the SP, and then Sarah just edged Irina out for first in the LP... 4+1 beat 2+2 under ordinals.

*Edit to add: I think Sarah beat Irina convincingly in the LP, but her win in that segment was a very shady split decision I think. It's been a long time.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Under IJS it’s not uncommon to lose a lead and end up off the podium, especially when skaters are separated by a few points. Loena for example was 3.59 points (essentially a clean 2A) ahead of 4th in the SP which is nothing given the overall points are in the 200s. Shoma’s of course was different given he had a 30 point lead on Adam Siao Him Fa but obviously in mens skating you can’t count anyone out. A popped or fall on a quad can make a double digit points swing. Shoma was off in missing the loop and flip (and failing to do a third combo which cost him bronze) but he still did two 4T and two 3A. And of course Adam was near perfect with no pressure. Sometimes skaters have enough of a lead like M/B in 2024 Euro pairs - winning the SP but dropping to fifth in the FS but ending up 2nd — but they were just two points from dropping off the podium. As with any competition it doesn’t just come down to you bombing the FS but if your opponents step up enough to overtake you.

Under 6.0 if you were 1st it was much harder to drop off the podium because of ordinals, and artistic scores being used to hold up skaters to a much greater degree than PCS can hold up skaters under IJS.

 

[SmileHappy34]

Personally I find the title unprofessional and demeaning to all skaters and the hard work they put into their skating for that 4 minutes result.

I know of no skater or team that wasn't first that didn't end up first but medaled or off podium .

You can turn it around by declaring who was not first after short or qualifying round but won free skate and didn't medal.

It sounds like a put down or making fun of stated skater or team.


Very few skaters or teams lead from start to finish

Qualifying round , short free.

We can state skaters who won figures but didn't skate well and still won and skaters who won free but not figures.

The title list is endless. I think it applies to most if not all medalist

 

[macy]

Personally I find the title unprofessional and demeaning to all skaters and the hard work they put into their skating for that 4 minutes result.

I know of no skater or team that wasn't first that didn't end up first but medaled or off podium .

You can turn it around by declaring who was not first after short or qualifying round but won free skate and didn't medal.

It sounds like a put down or making fun of stated skater or team.


Very few skaters or teams lead from start to finish

Qualifying round , short free.

We can state skaters who won figures but didn't skate well and still won and skaters who won free but not figures.

The title list is endless. I think it applies to most if not all medalist

not speaking for OP here, but i don't think they meant it in a disrespectful manner but rather just simply not understanding what it's like to be a competitive skater. you really don't know unless it's something you've experienced or (maybe) have been watching skating for a long time.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Gracie Gold at 2016 Worlds - 1st in SP, 6th in LP, 4th overall

 

[Mathematician]

Well outside of the world championship there was one such instance which traumatized an entire nation

 

[gkelly]

Under 6.0 if you were 1st it was much harder to drop off the podium because of ordinals,

because of factored placements

Ordinals = individual judges' ranking of each skater in one competition phase

Factored placements = the final placements for each competition phase, factored so that in SP+FS events the FS was worth twice as much as the SP

 

[SmileHappy34]

not speaking for OP here, but i don't think they meant it in a disrespectful manner but rather just simply not understanding what it's like to be a competitive skater. you really don't know unless it's something you've experienced or (maybe) have been watching skating for a long time.

1. Thank you for your opinion.

2. That is why I stated me my opinion only)

3. I knew others did not feel that way and I respected their opinion.
4. I think u implied I don't watch figure skating much . I have watch it a very long time
Started when on wide world of sports . Saw Peggy . Continual since Dorothy Hamill days.

Had friends that figure skated.
No I haven't watch much figure skating I have.