State of U.S. Dance 2015-2016

[Ice Dance]

I really loved the pairing of Samuelson and Bates and was crushed when he dumped her for Chock. Their lines and extension were so gorgeous and beautiful. I think this is why I have a hard time getting into the current pairing of Chock and Bates. Emily was the better match for Evan's height and long limbs and she was naturally sexy without trying to be sexy. To me, Evan now looks like he's not quite fully extended so that he can match his much shorter partner's limbs. Sigh...what could have been! :sad4:

It's more than that for me. It's like the Evan I loved to watch disappeared. He used to have a starring role in S&B's programs. So much life and joy. I saw them skate live at three nationals (winning novices, winning juniors, and making the Olympic team). Plus their first worlds.

Evan always had so much energy and emoted. He could connect right with the audience. (There was this cute section of their western folk dance where he kissed her on the cheek behind the cowboy hat, and only the crowd could see it. It wasn't designed for the judges).

In C&B's programs, the choreography is always centered around Madison, Madison, Madison.

It's like Evan disappeared. I don't just miss S&B. I miss him. His personality.

I know it's more common for the choreography to center around the lady, but not to this extent. Not all the time. There needs to be balance. It's such a waste.

 

[Astrid56]

I really loved the pairing of Samuelson and Bates and was crushed when he dumped her for Chock. Their lines and extension were so gorgeous and beautiful. I think this is why I have a hard time getting into the current pairing of Chock and Bates. Emily was the better match for Evan's height and long limbs and she was naturally sexy without trying to be sexy. To me, Evan now looks like he's not quite fully extended so that he can match his much shorter partner's limbs. Sigh...what could have been! :sad4:

Evan didn't dump Emily Samuelson for Madison Chock. He ended the partnership because he felt unable to comfortably skate again with Emily after that unfortunate mishap on what he later described as a "not a difficult move''. They were doing a lift in a practice (FD routine) when Samuelson's skate blade sliced Bates's tendon.

 

[Skater Boy]

So sad. I can only imagine how tough it would be to survive such a mishap but accidents do happen. Fortunately skaters like T and M were able to overcome as well as Dsquared (Dube and Davison). You kind of have to feel for Emily she may have a world medal now but for being dumped. Instead Bates will be immortalized as a nationalnd world medallist/ champion while Emily will be a mere note on Evan's list of partners. Ice is so slippery.

 

[ice coverage]

Evan didn't dump Emily Samuelson for Madison Chock. He ended the partnership because he felt unable to comfortably skate again with Emily after that unfortunate mishap on what he later described as a "not a difficult move''. They were doing a lift in a practice (FD routine) when Samuelson's skate blade sliced Bates's tendon.

If you are quoting Evan in order to cast aspersions on Emily:

It is not uncommon for accidents to happen on moves that are not difficult -- as discussed in the first article in IN's current series on concussions.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/02/02/163386260/concussions-in-figure-skating-how-they-happen

(I realize that Evan's injury was not a concussion, but that is beside the point.)​

What we know about what happened after the accident:

Emily trained by herself for a whole season while Evan recovered. As far as we know, she had no thought of seeking another partnership.
Very soon after Evan eventually was able to resume training with Emily, he ended the partnership. And very soon after he ended the partnership with Emily, he formed a new partnership with Madison.​

 

[WeakAnkles]

re: Samuelson and Bates.

I'll probably be shot for saying this, but gorgeous lines and terrific technique can't overcome a massive blah factor. It was like both were nice and together they were "nice squared." But nice squared, alas, tended to equal dull, dull, dull. About the only program of theirs that had any real pizzazz to it was their 40's one (a SD if I remember correctly).

YMMV of course.

And Igor and Marina in a photo together playing nice. Will wonders never cease!

 

[katha]

re: Samuelson and Bates.

I'll probably be shot for saying this, but gorgeous lines and terrific technique can't overcome a massive blah factor. It was like both were nice and together they were "nice squared." But nice squared, alas, tended to equal dull, dull, dull. About the only program of theirs that had any real pizzazz to it was their 40's one (a SD if I remember correctly).

YMMV of course.

And Igor and Marina in a photo together playing nice. Will wonders never cease!

Yeah, I thought they were snooze-worthy and forgettable. No amount of technical ability could overcome their total lack of excitement factor. Of course they weren't helped by all the generic FDs to elevator music their coaches made them skate. As for the split: I don't know the people or the motivations, of course, but judging by the way Evan to this day still talks about his injury as one of the most traumatic events of his life? I can easily believe it played a role. Perhaps he tought he could continue skating with Emily, but then when he actually had to do it, he didn't feel comfortable? Which of course doesn't make it Emily's fault, but if that was a factor, then Evan also can't necessarily change how he feels. Of course this is all just speculation and I have no idea what actually went down.

 

[Astrid56]

If you are quoting Evan in order to cast aspersions on Emily:

It is not uncommon for accidents to happen on moves that are not difficult -- as discussed in the first article in IN's current series on concussions.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/02/02/163386260/concussions-in-figure-skating-how-they-happen

(I realize that Evan's injury was not a concussion, but that is beside the point.)​

What we know about what happened after the accident:

Emily trained by herself for a whole season while Evan recovered. As far as we know, she had no thought of seeking another partnership.
Very soon after Evan eventually was able to resume training with Emily, he ended the partnership. And very soon after he ended the partnership with Emily, he formed a new partnership with Madison.​

There was an article about how Evan felt and this one specifically discussed his feelings:

Bates, 22, said he had not been looking for a new partner but circumstances, namely his injury, changed things. Bates suffered a torn Achilles while practicing a lift back in September. When he and Samuelson began skating together in March, Bates said it was difficult to get back into synch.

"I had very high expectations but when I got back on the ice and tried to put the pieces back together, they didn't seem to fit the same way,'' Bates said. "There was no preemptive desire on my part to split. I just think the injury changed things.

A traumatic injury can unintentionally change one's perspective: I know this is true I speak from experience .... BTW, I'm trying to post a link to this article but somehow it isn't working right resulting in an error. I am reposting it, here it is and I hope it will work this time - http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110701&content_id=21248206&vkey=ice_news

 

[humbaba]

Re the Emily/Evan split, I don't think it's necessary to take sides and place blame. They had a long, successful partnership. There was an unfortunate accident that forced Bates off the ice for a season. When they tried to come back, things didn't work anymore. I truly believe both Emily and Evan tried their best pick up where they left off, but it wasn't possible. A lot can change in the course of a year. I think their problems were on the ice, not anything personal.

Fans who mourn what could have been with Samuelson/Bates may be laboring under a delusion. I love some of their early programs, but agree that by the 2009-2010 season they seemed nice, but bland. By all accounts, they were struggling on the ice after Evan's injury. There's no reason to assume they would have matched or exceeded their former successes. If they had stayed together and declined, people would probably be posting about how dumb they were not to split up and make a fresh start with new partners.

A split is always sad, but sometimes it is the best available option. After the break-up, Emily skated with Todd Gilles. They made a cute couple, but the partnership didn't last long. Emily is still very involved with skating as a teacher and coach. Her activities are chronicled on her Twitter. Definitely worth checking out if you're an Emily fan.


Thanks, Astrid56 for providing the link to the interview with Evan. With everyone speculating about the split, it's only fair to listen to what Evan himself has to say. And in that vein, here's a link to an early interview with Chock and Bates. The video isn't the best quality, but it's the most I've heard Evan talk about his recovery and the split from Samuelson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPp25jhgX94

 

[ice coverage]

What I objected to was the tone of Astrid's original post -- at least the tone that came across to me: that Emily had it [Evan's decision to end the partnership] coming to her because the accident occurred on "not a difficult move."

As Skater Boy noted, some partnerships are able to continue after a serious accident. The most recent example is Papadakis/Cizeron, whose accident occurred on "a simple step," according to Dubreuil.

Evan was/is entitled to do whatever he wants that he thinks is in his best interest.
And any of us are entitled to have any opinions we want about what we know of the circumstances.

The accident itself obviously was very unlucky for both Evan and Emily.
It was very lucky for Evan that Madi just happened to be available at just the right time for him to start a new partnership immediately after ending his partnership with Emily.

 

[Astrid56]

Thanks humbaba for the video link. This video confirms what is indicated in the article. I totally understands his feelings: it would be counterproductive to stay with something that you don't feel good or happy anymore.

 

[Astrid56]

What I objected to was the tone of Astrid's original post -- at least the tone that came across to me: that Emily had it [Evan's decision to end the partnership] coming to her because the accident occurred on "not a difficult move."

As Skater Boy noted, some partnerships are able to continue after a serious accident. The most recent example is Papadakis/Cizeron, whose accident occurred on "a simple step," according to Dubreuil.

Evan was/is entitled to do whatever he wants that he thinks is in his best interest.
And any of us are entitled to have any opinions we want about what we know of the circumstances.

The accident itself obviously was very unlucky for both Evan and Emily.
It was very lucky for Evan that Madi just happened to be available at just the right time for him to start a new partnership immediately after ending his partnership with Emily.

I didn't intend to sound negative but this was what Evan said of the injury - contains a direct quote from him:

According to Igor Shpilband, who coaches Samuelson and Bates along with Marina Zoueva, the couple was performing a lift in its free dance routine when the blade from Samuelson's skate sliced Bates's tendon.

"It really was not a difficult move, which is somewhat pathetic,'' Bates said. "I kind of wish it had been a difficult one.''

And here's the link to that article http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100929&content_id=15212632&vkey=ice_news

 

[Astrid56]

I don't enjoy posting something that is purely based on speculation. Nor do I love saying things simply to make negative assertions. Anyway, read the article and draw your own conclusions http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100929&content_id=15212632&vkey=ice_news

Anyway, here's an article penned by Evan Bates on his ordeal. His attitude truly embodies the spirit of a champion. http://m.teamusa.org/News/2015/January/29/Evan-Bates-And-So-It-Goes

 

[ice coverage]

I didn't intend to sound negative but this was what Evan said of the injury - contains a direct quote from him:



And here's the link to that article http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100929&content_id=15212632&vkey=ice_news

I made note in my first post that you were quoting Evan. (And I had read the article in 2010 when it was published.)

What I do not understand is why it was relevant to cite his out-of-context quote about "not a difficult move" in the discussion here of why he ended the partnership.
He gave the quote soon after the accident -- long before ending the partnership.

But in the interest of letting this thread turn to other topics, I will take your word that you did not mean to sound negative about Emily.

(I get that Evan's injury was serious; and that for him, it changed the nature of his partnership with Emily. And he is entitled to whatever feelings/reactions he had. All of that being said, I regret that in their case, a very long partnership did not survive the accident. And I regret that Emily's competitive career did not last much longer.)

 

[Astrid56]

I made note in my first post that you were quoting Evan. (And I had read the article in 2010 when it was published.)

What I do not understand is why it was relevant to cite his out-of-context quote about "not a difficult move" in the discussion here of why he ended the partnership.
He gave the quote soon after the accident -- long before ending the partnership.

But in the interest of letting this thread turn to other topics, I will take your word that you did not mean to sound negative about Emily.

(I get that Evan's injury was serious; and that for him, it changed the nature of his partnership with Emily. And he is entitled to whatever feelings/reactions he had. All of that being said, I regret that in their case, a very long partnership did not survive the accident. And I regret that Emily's competitive career did not last much longer.)

Why is it right to say that he dumped Emily for Madison (which could be aptly described as 'speculative') and not right to quote him what he thought of the move that caused the injury? I don't understand this mindset. Out-of-context? That quote from him shows the depth of his distress ... and partly explained his eventual decision .... He found the move that caused the injury "pathetic" but he realized he lost the joy and it was time to try something else ... to move on.

 

[ice coverage]

Why is it right to say that he dumped Emily for Madison (which could be aptly described as 'speculative') and not right to quote him what he thought of the move that caused the injury? I don't understand this mindset. Out-of-context? That quote from him shows the depth of his distress ... and partly explained his eventual decision .... He found the move that caused the injury "pathetic" but he realized he lost the joy and it was time to try something else ... to move on.

(1) Just want to be clear that I myself never said that Evan "dumped" Emily for Madison. Someone else said it earlier in this thread.

As I have said, my concern was the negative light in which I perceived Emily to be cast by your citation of the quote.​

(2) I stand by my opinion that the quote was out of context.

And have you never used the word "pathetic" in a light-hearted, hyperbolic, self-deprecating way? (For example: "Darn it, I forgot my best friend's birthday for the second year in a row. My memory is pathetic.")
Evan is known to have a good sense of humor, and my opinion is that he did not use the words "somewhat pathetic" to convey deep-seated distress that it was not a difficult move led to the injury.
(To be clear: The injury itself naturally would have been distressing. But I did not and do not sense genuine distress from him that not-a-difficult move led to the injury.)​

(3) I really do want to let this thread turn to other topics. If you feel the need to continue discussing Evan and Emily, I will respond to you by PM.

 

[Astrid56]

(1) Just want to be clear that I myself never said that Evan "dumped" Emily for Madison. Someone else said it earlier in this thread.

As I have said, my concern was the negative light in which I perceived Emily to be cast by your citation of the quote.​

True, it wasn't you who said he dumped Emily for Madison and for that I apologize.

(2) I stand by my opinion that the quote was out of context.

And have you never used the word "pathetic" in a light-hearted, hyperbolic, self-deprecating way? (For example: "Darn it, I forgot my best friend's birthday for the second year in a row. My memory is pathetic.")
Evan is known to have a good sense of humor, and my opinion is that he did not use the words "somewhat pathetic" to convey deep-seated distress that it was not a difficult move led to the injury.
(To be clear: The injury itself naturally would have been distressing. But I did not and do not sense genuine distress from him that not-a-difficult move led to the injury.)​

Well, I understand what you are saying but when one says it the way he did it: "It really was not a difficult move, which is somewhat pathetic,'' Bates said. "I kind of wish it had been a difficult one.'' His use of 'pathetic' sounds more like 'exasperation' ... even incredulity. He said that Emily really felt bad about it and tried to make light of the situation saying "I'm doing pretty well,'' ... before adding with a dry laugh, "for being immobilized.''

It's interesting how differently we perceive things and I understand. Some sass to make light of something, to mask their annoyance ... embarrassment, etc. Anyway, it's counterproductive to discuss this on and on. What's the point? As Kipling noted “ there is neither East nor West ... When two strong men stand face to face.”

 

[tulosai]

I honestly think either way that those comments reflect more negatively on Evan than on Emily, but naturally YMMV. At the end of the day they were no longer compatible for a partnership and I think really that's all we need to know. Neither of them owe or owed the fans any kind of explanation and both are and were entitled to do what they believed was best and healthiest for them. I don't think either was really at fault in any way- the accident itself, whether on an easy or difficult move, and regardless of who was mostly or even entirely responsible for it, was just that- an accident, which honestly could happen to anyone on any kind of a move in a sport like this. And the split afterwards similarly, regardless of who was mostly or entirely responsible for instigating it, was something that really shouldn't be thought of in some kind of weird moralizing way- the situation was no longer viable or potentially healthy for one or both of them, and it was their prerogative and perhaps even their duty to both themself and the partnership to leave the partnership with that being the case.

I do think their split was unfortunate, probably for them more than anyone, at least at the time. While quite obviously Evan in the end has done very well for himself, he was extremely lucky to be able to find such a compatible partner so quickly, and I am sure he is aware of this. Things could easily have worked out similarly for him as they did for Emily, and I'm sure it was not obvious to him, in the first few months of training with Chock, how far they'd really be able to go. Early in a partnership, obviously there are indicators, but a lot of the time I think you are just hoping for the best. I do think Emily was a very good skater (in fact, close to top notch) with many nice qualities, and am sad that she had to give up the sport, but she's certainly found other things to occupy her time and is on her way to a very successful life as a doctor.

I don't see what good it does to cast blame in either direction, even if the skaters themselves seemed to do so like 5 years ago now. I do believe both of them to be gracious people and think they probably regret anything they said that could be interpreted as less than gracious about everything at the time. I also think quite frankly that it's time for everyone to get over this- I myself had opinions on the split I'm not proud of now that impacted my opinions that I shared on the boards, but that was like 3-4 years ago now... it really is time to move on.

 

[ice coverage]

... I do think Emily was a very good skater (in fact, close to top notch) with many nice qualities, and am sad that she had to give up the sport, but she's certainly found other things to occupy her time and is on her way to a very successful life as a doctor....

Just curious:

When/where did Emily say that she is going to become a doctor??
I do look at her tweets once in a while, and I don't remember anything like that.
Is it possible that you have confused her with Lynn Kriengkrairut?

That said, what I do remember is that Emily's life beyond skating sounded happy and fulfilling.
She completed her undergrad degree at U Mich (and sat with Lynn K at their commencement), and was headed to grad school -- to study international relations, or something similar. I remember some of us on GS remarked (half-jokingly/half-seriously) that perhaps Emily would end up working alongside Michelle Kwan at the State Department. (At the time, MK had not yet left for HRC's campaign.)
In 2014, Emily spoke to IN about her engagement, with the wedding expected in 2015.

Wishing Emily all the best.

ETA:

If(?) her LinkedIn profile is up to date, she is working for Merrill Lynch.​

---

... I don't see what good it does to cast blame in either direction, even if the skaters themselves seemed to do so like 5 years ago now. ...

I really am trying not to dwell on this subject, but I have to say that I don't recall Emily uttering one word of blame.
And IIRC, Evan did not cast blame either.
It was Evan's choice to end the partnership, but it did not become a blame game. (Certainly not in public,)

That said, it was hard for me (and others, I believe) not to notice the marked contrast in what happened to their separate skating careers after their partnership ended.
Not unlike the situation with Yankowskas and Coughlin (although their split was not precipitated by an injury). AFAIK, Caits -- like Emily -- never uttered one word of blame. And I don't think Coughlin cast blame either. But within the blink of an eye, his new partnership with Caydee was going full steam ahead.

 

[ice coverage]

And now I really will change the subject to say that Chloe Rose Lewis is blogging from YOG for ice-dance.com.

Sounds as if she's having a blast .

Blog #1, Feb 11: http://www.ice-dance.com/site/youth-olympic-blog-1-chloe-lewis/

Blog #2, Feb 12: http://www.ice-dance.com/site/youth-olympic-blog-2-chloe-lewis/​

Not a blog, but a news article re Lewis/Bye and YOG, with a long quote from Chloe.

Feb 10: http://www.ice-dance.com/site/lewis-bye-head-lillehammer/​

---

Plus the Shibutanis and Meryl contributed to the USOC article re Inspiring Letters to Youth Olympians (from athletes representing a variety of sports).
The Shibs and MD were the only figure skaters included in the article. I am a crybaby, and their letters left me with tears streaming down my cheeks. So nice that they love to give back.

http://www.teamusa.org/News/2016/Fe...ns-Write-Inspiring-Letters-To-Youth-Olympians (Feb 11)​

---

The Parsons are included in the USOC "Where Are They Now?" article re previous Winter YOG athletes from a variety of sports:

http://www.teamusa.org/News/2016/February/10/Where-Are-They-Now-2012-Winter-Youth-Olympians-Edition (Feb 10)​

 

[humbaba]

I'm glad Lewis and Bye will have another opportunity to skate this season. Of all the the junior ice dancers at US nationals, Chloe was the one who most surprised me. She looked like a different skater from even the JGP competitions last fall. And different in a good way. She was much more elegant and engaging to watch.