Who is/was the stronger skater of the partnership?

[sunnystars]

Question: who's stronger of H/B?

Hawayek and Baker?

Definitely Jean-Luc. He seems rock-solid with technique and he has the presenting qualities of Scott.

to lyndichee, hmm I find Luba better than Dylan. She just exhibits star quality....just minus the jumps.

 

[MalAssada]

I'm a dancer, not a skater, but isn't the whole point of partner work that you form a unit as a couple? So doesn't the fact that one partner stands out a lot more than the other indicate a failure of the partnership even if they don't make mistakes as such?

My two cents, as someone who has just started skating: I believe that if the couple have the same qualities and mistakes, the mistakes will stand out too much and judges might notice things they wouldn't if only one partner made the mistake. They are pairs - supposed to complete each other. So, if I am weak at spins, I would like to find someone with good spins to skate with, to balance it out. Standing out much more than your partner is an indicator something is wrong, in my humble opinion.

 

[desertskates]

Before I evened opened this thread, I immediately thought of Rena Inoue being so much stronger than John Baldwin. But for the most part, I think all the current pairs are pretty well matched.

 

[LiamForeman]

Before I evened opened this thread, I immediately thought of Rena Inoue being so much stronger than John Baldwin. But for the most part, I think all the current pairs are pretty well matched.

It really was strange, considering he competed singles his entire life and had landed many 3axels. Then he switched to pairs and he couldn't even land a 2axel or 3toe automatically.... He was getting wide in the middle, so that had to affect his jumps, but you'd think if he was serious he'd keep his body in shape. Poor Rena. She deserved better.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Was Xue Shen really that much inferior to Hongbo Zhao? I always thought they were evenly matched, and her ability to land those massive throws was unmatched. Neither could spin all that well.

It went way back to when they first got put together by Coach Yao. Hongbo was already a successful Pairs skater but lost his partner. The search was on for his new partner with many girls to select from and young Xue was a surprise choice by Yao. The difference in their levels was very frustrating for a while. One day, Yao lost his temper and yelled, "Why should she be trying so hard to keep up with you? Why don't you try to keep up with her?" The idea struck him and he made it Hongbo's responsibility to keep pace with Xue and the partnership started to gel. The rest is history.

 

[lyverbird1]

It went way back to when they first got put together by Coach Yao. Hongbo was already a successful Pairs skater but lost his partner. The search was on for his new partner with many girls to select from and young Xue was a surprise choice by Yao. The difference in their levels was very frustrating for a while. One day, Yao lost his temper and yelled, "Why should she be trying so hard to keep up with you? Why don't you try to keep up with her?" The idea struck him and he made it Hongbo's responsibility to keep pace with Xue and the partnership started to gel. The rest is history.

Great story! Clearly the partnership also then started to gel off the ice! I absolutely loved them and was shamelessly emotional when they won their Olympic gold.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

That is a really great story of how to create a partnership rather than two rivals who skate together.

It always seems to me that Hao Zhang has done a good job of taking on a much less experienced partner and always presenting her to her best, not just trying to show how great he is and dragging her along. And the fruits are starting to show with a really good partnership, IMO. Anyone else agree?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Great story! Clearly the partnership also then started to gel off the ice! I absolutely loved them and was shamelessly emotional when they won their Olympic gold.

The romance came much later. Xue was very young, timid, and overwhelmed with the older and respected Hongbo who took over the role of Big Brother until he discovered the ugly duckling had turned into a very attractive young woman in a beautiful dress at a post competition banquet. I forget which event it was but they were quite successful by then. They managed to keep the off ice relationship private in spite of the speculations.

Of course it was both touching and comical that, when he knelt down on one knee to propose to her after winning the World Championship, she knelt down with him, unaware of the proposal. I guess being in synch on ice was automatic.

 

[aromaticchicken]

That is a really great story of how to create a partnership rather than two rivals who skate together.

It always seems to me that Hao Zhang has done a good job of taking on a much less experienced partner and always presenting her to her best, not just trying to show how great he is and dragging her along. And the fruits are starting to show with a really good partnership, IMO. Anyone else agree?

They certainly aren't one of my favorite pairs at all (I like all of the other Chinese pairs better), but I have to agree with you. He's a world/olympic medalist and obviously has a whole lifetime of experience ahead of her... and yet he does a really good job of taking care of her and showing her off on the ice. I know that people say it's weird because it's like father/daughter, but in many ways I see it as a father proudly displaying his beautiful daughter or something like that. [Shrug]

The romance came much later. Xue was very young, timid, and overwhelmed with the older and respected Hongbo who took over the role of Big Brother until he discovered the ugly duckling had turned into a very attractive young woman in a beautiful dress at a post competition banquet. I forget which event it was but they were quite successful by then. They managed to keep the off ice relationship private in spite of the speculations.

Of course it was both touching and comical that, when he knelt down on one knee to propose to her after winning the World Championship, she knelt down with him, unaware of the proposal. I guess being in synch on ice was automatic.

Haha yes, I love that moment!!

 

[Violet Bliss]

They certainly aren't one of my favorite pairs at all (I like all of the other Chinese pairs better), but I have to agree with you. He's a world/olympic medalist and obviously has a whole lifetime of experience ahead of her... and yet he does a really good job of taking care of her and showing her off on the ice. I know that people say it's weird because it's like father/daughter, but in many ways I see it as a father proudly displaying his beautiful daughter or something like that. [Shrug]

You're probably thinking of Peng/Zhang. The story is that of Shen/Zhao, the original great Chinese Pairs and Olympic Gold Medalists.

Eta Zhang Hao is married to his long time long distance girlfriend.

 

[aromaticchicken]

That is a really great story of how to create a partnership rather than two rivals who skate together.

It always seems to me that Hao Zhang has done a good job of taking on a much less experienced partner and always presenting her to her best, not just trying to show how great he is and dragging her along. And the fruits are starting to show with a really good partnership, IMO. Anyone else agree?

The romance came much later. Xue was very young, timid, and overwhelmed with the older and respected Hongbo who took over the role of Big Brother until he discovered the ugly duckling had turned into a very attractive young woman in a beautiful dress at a post competition banquet. I forget which event it was but they were quite successful by then. They managed to keep the off ice relationship private in spite of the speculations.

Of course it was both touching and comical that, when he knelt down on one knee to propose to her after winning the World Championship, she knelt down with him, unaware of the proposal. I guess being in synch on ice was automatic.

You're probably thinking of Peng/Zhang. The story is that of Shen/Zhao, the original great Chinese Pairs and Olympic Gold Medalists..

No... I'm talking about both pairs separately. In the first part of my post I'm talking about Peng/Zhang. In the second half, I'm talking about Shen/Zhao.

 

[Violet Bliss]

No... I'm talking about both pairs separately. In the first part of my post I'm talking about Peng/Zhang. In the second half, I'm talking about Shen/Zhao.

I see. Well, Peng has come a long way too with Zhang. It's got to be really tough and intimidating for her initially, leaving home for the first time and being paired up with a much older and very successful partner. Hao admitted he also played the roles of coach and nanny helping her adjust to a new life. He missed the old partnership but this team has grown much with great improvement on Peng's part. The beauty of her skating is now showing.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Hawayek and Baker?

Definitely Jean-Luc. He seems rock-solid with technique and he has the presenting qualities of Scott.

to lyndichee, hmm I find Luba better than Dylan. She just exhibits star quality....just minus the jumps.

True, but give Hawayek props--she's catching up at a terrific rate. I'm so looking forward to seeing them develop over the next few years.

 

[elbkup]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzq2Wg_JxRs
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQkpLWPlOY

In a recent GS thread where sultry dances were discussed, EX performance by Marina Anissina & Gwendel Pezerhat "Susannah" was posted; she actually lifts him. This thread is discussing strong SS but she has remarkable physical strength!! I loved the program and have posted 2 versions: one in Vancouver after they won Silver - they did an encore where the lift was unreal IMO - and the same program following their Olympic Gold win in 2002. Their SS appears to be about equal... She's 5'4".. He's 5'8"... THANKS to Doris for the original post in the earlier thread!

 

[solani]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzq2Wg_JxRs
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQkpLWPlOY

In a recent GS thread where sultry dances were discussed, EX performance by Marina Anissina & Gwendel Pezerhat "Susannah" was posted; she actually lifts him. This thread is discussing strong SS but she has remarkable physical strength!! I loved the program and have posted 2 versions: one in Vancouver after they won Silver - they did an encore where the lift was unreal IMO - and the same program following their Olympic Gold win in 2002. Their SS appears to be about equal... She's 5'4".. He's 5'8"... THANKS to Doris for the original post in the earlier thread!

They were both great but Marina wasn't particularly strong. I remember an interview where Gwendal said that all female skaters have very strong legs and all the lifts that Marina did where based on leg strength. And that she didn't want to do it in the first place and was outraged by the idea, but that she later liked the idea of a trademark move.

 

[elbkup]

Interesting!! When I first saw it almost fell off my chair!!

 

[blue_idealist]

Didn't Sinead Kerr lift John occasionally? Does anyone know of any other dance teams or pairs in which that occurred (woman lifting man)?

 

[bartlebooth]

Didn't Sinead Kerr lift John occasionally? Does anyone know of any other dance teams or pairs in which that occurred (woman lifting man)?

Off the top of my head:

Faiella/Scali
Hurtado/Diaz

 

[Josie]

Off the top of my head:

Faiella/Scali
Hurtado/Diaz

..also Anissina/Peizerat and the Duchesnays - and there are more, but I have to rewatch the vids to get sure.

 

[Alba]

Also, I don't think Usova/Zhulin were horribly imbalanced in skill at all.

Not horribly but Zhulin was much better than her as a skater.

So, in the interests of informing the less 'in the know', who of past and present partnerships, both in pairs and dance, are/were the better skaters than their partners and, more importantly, WHY? Even better will be if you can illustrate it with video evidence so people like me can learn! And, if it isn't cut and dried, what strengths perhaps do each partner bring to the ice?

I made a video in February with top 6 ID couples NtMiSt SD. So you can chek and look for the things that uhh listed. I would also add look for good, deep, clean edges. Smooth skating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6-kCMri5Q&list=PL_99HohAWFWHf2jT6a4feGBUeQxJYkt2P&index=107

(now that I'm re-watching it P&C certainly did a lot of two foot skating there).

I did the montage taking the best performance (according to the judges) for each couple up to that moment but you can find in this channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHHPzj0Ja-Ven6k7_yFq5kg/videos
videos of ID GP competitions (all but SA and NHK) SD and FD. It's feet only, which is good for this purpose.