While she has no events in the U.S., there will likely be U.S. citizens/ex-pats/visitors at every event, including Skate Canada, which -- as you know! -- is driving distance within several U.S. cities. And 24 of the Sept. 11 victims were from Canada, though that's the same as Japan.
2016 Japan Open
- Thread starter gsk8
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While she has no events in the U.S., there will likely be U.S. citizens/ex-pats/visitors at every event, including Skate Canada, which -- as you know! -- is driving distance within several U.S. cities. And 24 of the Sept. 11 victims were from Canada, though that's the same as Japan.
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- Jul 31, 2014
It was also a country of non-native English speakers in fairness. Many of us did not even catch the lines/what was said until more than one watch, and if anything it might be harder to understand in an arena. They may not have been turned off simply because they did not notice/catch the details. Frankly i would not expect most native English speakers to fully catch it on the first viewing... a lot of other things to pay attention to.
I am not sure it really matters that she does not compete in the USA or how an American audience would react. Non-Americans have opinions on this too, and I don't think Americans have a claim to being offended by this.
I agree her team likely has no incentive to change. For them it likely is a case of no publicity is bad publicity, and it likely is true in this case. I don't think it will harm her or hold her back. Fans will come and go anyway - so she likely has little to lose. The thing is, I am not even a fan of hers but think she is better than this type of pandering for attention. I think she could be just as successful - without annoying people, if she would ditch the sound effects - and I doubt many people would think the program lost power if she did.
Honestly I am not a fan of spoken lines at all in programs... hers are just likely the worst example of it.
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- Nov 30, 2014
Americans are not universally opposed to this skating program. I'm not even convinced a majority of Americans would feel strongly about this, one way or another.
Of course. But my point is there will likely be Americans who will be in the audience at every event -- even those abroad -- and who knows maybe one of them was affected by it.
There are several GS members who are American who will be at Skate Canada, so I'd be interested to hear their thoughts after seeing it in person. Maybe in an arena, the voice overs aren't obvious and what not.
As I noted, my Facebook friends -- nonskating fans -- who viewed it actually weren't offended, but they didn't feel like she exhibited the theme of the world's insecurities that well either.
In any case, I'm not pegging this on Evgenia nor does this make me an anti-fan (still think she's a great skater and has a lovely personally), but I guess thank goodness that Averbach didn't choreograph this a year earlier. There were quite a few NYC-ers at Worlds in Boston.
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- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings on this. I find it odd that in one line, you say that non-Americans have a right to their opinions, but in the same post, you discredit the positive reception in Japan because the audience must not have understood what they were seeing/hearing?
I've said my piece. And if the phone ringing sound has to stay, at least there's this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1610393525875114/permalink/1782666528647812/
(Thanks Melomia!)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1610393525875114/permalink/1782666528647812/
(Thanks Melomia!)
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- Nov 30, 2014
I'll give mine after I get out of the event! :agree:
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings on this. I find it odd that in one line, you say that non-Americans have a right to their opinions, but in the same post, you discredit the positive reception in Japan because the audience must not have understood what they were seeing/hearing?
Well, I might like a Japanese song for its beat even if i don't know what the lyrics mean... but if i found out they were saying "murder all cats" my opinion would likely change and I would enjoy it less.
I don't like the sound clips... the "one of the planes" lines. Those are things that if you don't speak English, you are not going to notice or really be able to form an opinion on without it being translated. That is all i meant. I think this program could be good without the lines i dislike... so it is not a surprise to me that an audience that did not know what was being said, would not be bothered by the lines and like the program. I was not trying to discredit their positive reception, but I do think that many of them likely experienced/witnessed a program much closer to what many of us want her program to be... ie one without identifiable dialog. If anything the strong reception in a limited English speaking country to me argues that the lines are not needed for the program to be effective. If people that don't know what is being said still like it.... maybe the dialog lines don't need to be there.
Maybe she should put the lines in Latin. Then everyone would experience the same "who knows what is being said, but i guess i can look it up" reaction. The thing is... I don't think Evgenia speaks English, so she my not even know what is being said.
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Evgenia definitely is working on her English. At the TCC Mixed zone, she actually interrupted her interpreter so she could speak English about her summer plans.
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- Jul 31, 2014
I did not know that. But to be clear, I don't think she is obligated to work on her English if she does not want to - mostly that she may have a different feeling about her own program based on language.... because that is normal.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
She does speak English and has done a few English interviews. But like many Russians (and Japanese too), they understand English much better than they are able to speak it themselves.
It would be quite shocking if she didn't understand most of the spoken lines in her program music. Maybe if she missed it the first time, she'd finally figure it out by the 50th time it played during her practices.
Based on your last few replies, I get the impression that you believe if someone is correctly interpreting & understanding the sound clips, they would have no choice but to feel offended by the program. Is this correct?
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
No, not at all. I think that if someone does not know what is being said, they would have much less reason to be offended or dislike it. For lack of a better way to put it - they would not be able to see, or in this case hear, the controversy/issue. If you literally don't know what was said (this could be due to language or acoustics or both) - you can't really form an opinion on if it is good or bad. And I think that there likely are people who will watch her program, like it initially, and later find out the translations and have a "ugh I don't like that" reaction, just like others will think "THAT'S what they were complaining about... there is nothing wrong with that!". I only meant that some people may just hear "speaking English dialog" as opposed to "one of the two planes" and might form different opinions based on how they persevere it. I assume that the audience in Japan had a wide range of reactions and opinions - just like every country.
For an analogy if a French skater did a program about their recent attacks with dialog - i would not know what was being said. I would just hear "speaking French dialog" and I would assume my reaction/feelings would be different from someone who speaks French. If a kind poster on GoldenSkate posted a translation into English, I suspect that it would affect my perception of the program, as it would give more information and more perspective and likely have an impact on my overall opinion. I don't like the lines in programs over all, so even in French I would likely not like it, however it is certainly possible that upon learning the translation, that I would like it more, just like I might hate it more.
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2014
https://youtu.be/2gcAOtSDgcs
Here is a side-by-side comparison of Ashley's programs. I think it's very different. Honestly the only thing the same is the jumps are in the same order as last year..
Here is a side-by-side comparison of Ashley's programs. I think it's very different. Honestly the only thing the same is the jumps are in the same order as last year..
Like you said not everyone is going to love Evgenia or her program and unless it gets overwhelming negative reviews/ criticism, I dont see the need to change the program especially with that positive reception by the Japanese audience and the big score she got. This might change after GP and worlds but this is a gamble they are taking. Terrorism is a big issue now and people will talk about it. People can spin this against or for her. So far the people I know who saw it didnt actually understand it the first time and didnt really care about the voice overs but was more bothered about the WTH telephone ring in the end. I honestly really think commentators will play a big role on how this program will be perceived.
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- Dec 4, 2004
Gracie.
Why do I have a feeling she is injured or sick?
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- Nov 3, 2013
Ashley & Adam? They are always on my list of favorite skaters, so, don't expect fair judgement from me
I enjoyed Ashley's Exogenesis very much, and so did other audiences. I didn't expect so much from her, because, 1)the music belongs to Jeremy (at least for me), and 2) she wasn't ready when I saw her last year at the same Japan Open; however, she expressed the music very well and was so confident on the ice.
My seat was too far to see her famous "facial expression", but I was able to see her "body expression", which I believe more important than facial one. I love her grey dress, too.
It was unfortunate for Adam to skate 5th, because now, 5 days later, I can only remember his costume even though I am sure I liked his performance. Maybe because I was so happy (& relieved) to see Jeremy & Nobu did very well, and so excited to see Shoma's dramatic program. Compare to those performances by my emotional favorites, Adam's performance was little bit... maybe colorless?:think:.
I didn't see him, because Daisuke had skated only for "Carnival on Ice", a kind of Gala which was held after Japan Open at the same venue. (I wanted to see the show, but I can't afford two events a day:sad4
According to other web-site, he performed Mambo for encore which TV-Tokyo didn't air. BTW, about Evgenia's program. I think most of the audience didn't know it was about 911. My friend, who went Japan Open with me, had no idea what it was about, though she's been a casual figure skating fan since Midori's time. I wonder whether Japanese media is not very interested in her, or just avoiding to touch sensitive issue. When they air her program on TV, the commentator described it was about a story of young girl who lost her lover by "accident", as it was just a traffic accident. Interesting:think:
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- Mar 8, 2013
Actually, that is indeed the way Averbuch described the programm. He said that yes, the music is from the movie about 9/11 but the storyline behind is about tragic accidents in general: terrorist attacks, plane crashes, traffic etc., not directly about 9/11. I guess that is the reason they took one of the ideasAshley & Adam? They are always on my list of favorite skaters, so, don't expect fair judgement from me
I enjoyed Ashley's Exogenesis very much, and so did other audiences. I didn't expect so much from her, because, 1)the music belongs to Jeremy (at least for me), and 2) she wasn't ready when I saw her last year at the same Japan Open; however, she expressed the music very well and was so confident on the ice.
My seat was too far to see her famous "facial expression", but I was able to see her "body expression", which I believe more important than facial one. I love her grey dress, too.
It was unfortunate for Adam to skate 5th, because now, 5 days later, I can only remember his costume even though I am sure I liked his performance. Maybe because I was so happy (& relieved) to see Jeremy & Nobu did very well, and so excited to see Shoma's dramatic program. Compare to those performances by my emotional favorites, Adam's performance was little bit... maybe colorless?:think:.
I didn't see him, because Daisuke had skated only for "Carnival on Ice", a kind of Gala which was held after Japan Open at the same venue. (I wanted to see the show, but I can't afford two events a day:sad4
BTW, about Evgenia's program. I think most of the audience didn't know it was about 911. My friend, who went Japan Open with me, had no idea what it was about, though she's been a casual figure skating fan since Midori's time. I wonder whether Japanese media is not very interested in her, or just avoiding to touch sensitive issue. When they air her program on TV, the commentator described it was about a story of young girl who lost her lover by "accident", as it was just a traffic accident. Interesting:think:
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