That was the worst SP ever for US women (OG)

[drivingmissdaisy]

The American women did better than I predicted. I figured they would be behind the Russian, Canadian, and Japanese women and Carolina.

This is essentially what happened, if you swapped Dabin's placement for Maria's.

 

[Manitou]

The US "panic" over this sort of thing is amusing. (though slightly sad and annoying too)

Nothing "happened"; it is pretty normal not to be #1 all the time in any competitive endeavour, and is no great shame not to be.
After all, only one can be #1 at any given time -- by the very definition of "#1" -- and yet there are multiple that are worthy.

How do you think other countries feel most of the time?
There is no crisis.

LOL! So true!
But you see, there is no middle ground for Americans. We are either #1 or we don't exist or care. That's the way of life for the Chosen Nation.
Look at this forum. It's entirely US centric. We kindly allow others to contribute, just to feel better how open we are, but it's really about the US lol

Irony aside - I would love this forum to be entirely international. I would love Russian fans to contribute as much as Americans do - as members, mods and admins. Also the Japanese, Chinese and Europeans fans should be as equal as the US. Both in numbers and in authority.

 

[jenaj]

I wondered too why she tried the 3A in the short. Her percentage on that is not good and it seemed extremely risky. My guess would be she got pressured into it, maybe by herself. I can see how when you finally do something you have been trying to do for YEARS you start to think you can't go back, both in your own and the audience's eyes. It's a shame, because it dug her into hole that even a successful 3A in the Long probably won't dig her out of, where if she weren't in the hole a successful 3A in the Long might have put her over the top. Seems like a major blown call.

As other have said, I think going for the 3A was the right thing. Had she just stood up on it, I think her score would have been 3 points higher. A fall is penalized in PCS, even if it isn't supposed to be. Look at Bradie's PCS--only 29. I hope Mirai can repeat what she did in the team event tonight. But even if she doesn't, good for her for trying. No guts, no glory.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

As other have said, I think going for the 3A was the right thing. Had she just stood up on it, I think her score would have been 3 points higher. A fall is penalized in PCS, even if it isn't supposed to be. Look at Bradie's PCS--only 29. I hope Mirai can repeat what she did in the team event tonight. But even if she doesn't, good for her for trying. No guts, no glory.

She absolutely should have gone for it. The skaters whose 2A's outscored Mirai's 3A did theirs in the second half. She can't re-choreograph the jump into the second half if she decides a few hours earlier that the 3A is off.

 

[Procrastinator]

Wait, where are we getting that skaters outscored Mirai's 3A? Skatingscores has her winning the axel with 5.50. The next score is Carolina and Osmond with 4.70 for their 2A, followed by (wait for it) Medvedeva.

 

[jenaj]

Wait, where are we getting that skaters outscored Mirai's 3A? Skatingscores has her winning the axel with 5.50. The next score is Carolina and Osmond with 4.70 for their 2A, followed by (wait for it) Medvedeva.

Mirai only got 4.5 for her 3A because of the fall.

 

[Procrastinator]

Why are we counting the 1.00 penalty as part of the element score. Regardless, the 3A has been looking pretty solid in training. It's ridiculous to say she should have been doing a double, unless you have been ignoring all her training practices and runthroughs.

 

[NadezhdaNadya]

I do not think is that bad. Normal.
It is like that after Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen retired.
It was the same for the Russian ladies skaters for 6 full years at Worlds after Irina Slutskaya retired. Ladies skaters from Japan, South Korea, Italy, USA (in 2006 when Kimmie Meissner won Worlds and before Sasha Cohen to retire, she won bronze), Canada and Finland were the one who medaled in the period 2006-2011. No ladies skaters from Russia.
At Europeans also took 6 full years. Ladies skaters from Italy, Finland, Switzerland and Georgia were the ones who medaled at Europeans in the period 2007-2012. Again no ladies skaters from Russia. At that time Carolina Costner won 4 out of her 5 European titles.
Still, there is Ashley Wagner who won silver in 2016. Before her there were 9 full years without any ladies skater from USA to medal in the period 2007-2015.

 

[withwings]

it seems to be quite obvious this thread is initiated not with a good purpose on mind

 

[Grin]

There is one American who can keep up with the rest of the world. Her name is Alysa Liu. At nationals she did 7 triples in the second half, a triple flip and 3lz-3t in the second half of her short. She is not eligible for the JGP until 2019 but I think she may make waves.

It will be sad if backloading will be penalized (because of the **** storm created by some American skaters and Canadian commentators) when she becomes eligible. It will be like Russian ladies took all the profit from backloading and it is too late for others. Looks like shooting in your own foot.

 

[withwings]

It will be sad if backloading will be penalized (because of the **** storm created by some American skaters and Canadian commentators) when she becomes eligible. It will be like Russian ladies took all the profit from backloading and it is too late for others. Looks like shooting in your own foot.

not yet too tired?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Chen could have made it, look at the PCS she got with a huge mistake. Doing a good GOE 3Lutz+3Toe and 3Loop, expected PCS increase for a perfect performance, and she's hitting 74.

Ah yes, Karen's PCS. A personal best for practically the same program but with a bad lutz and a triple-double. I mean, she's in her second senior year and it's the Olympics so she's bound to get a boost, but in that SP, she was in the Carolina Kostner camp of "Wait, she made two errors and got that PCS?!"

Karen's program is exquisite, and better than Nagasu/Tennell for sure, but at her best she would have not surpassed Sakamoto's difficulty or Kostner's artistry (although that was overscored).

 

[Ares]

Is this an actual thing, though? Skaters like Osmond and Kostner are incredibly inconsistent yet still have had their PCS going higher and higher.

Personally, I think it's much more fair to award consistency than to continue giving the skater's failed performances higher and higher PCS and when they finally skate clean give them a massive additional PCS boost. How is that any better an alternative?

Personally, I don't think that the American Skaters' low PCS has anything to do with their consistency and more to do with them just not being that good PCS-wise in the eyes of the international judging panels. Inconsistency has never stopped them from giving high PCS. If I were to pinpoint clear issues, it'd be in skating skills and transitions. It's like the focus when it comes to PCS categories is entirely in the performance. Perhaps this is an influence of Ashley Wagner but today's PCS scoring is in my eyes instead heading towards a direction where they value transitions more and more. Only Bradie's program design seems to grasp this and that's something I commend her for. But the solution isn't complaining, it's adapting. Adapting to the sport rather than wanting the sport to adapt to your skaters' strengths...

And what about this being completely independet from that mythical consistency factor? Like it should be. I equally advocate not giving 15-years old jumping beans super-extra inflation in PCS unless as I do advocate not holding up skaters like Kostner for flawed performances full of disruptive moments like at the Europeans and skating with less abandon and less deep edges & eaten away transitions to my naked eye than usual - mind you she ever received PCS record there. Just judge what you see in front of you in this very moment according to criteria.

 

[jenaj]

Why are we counting the 1.00 penalty as part of the element score. Regardless, the 3A has been looking pretty solid in training. It's ridiculous to say she should have been doing a double, unless you have been ignoring all her training practices and runthroughs.

It isn't part of the element score but the net result is that she only received 4.5 for the jump because she fell on it.

 

[eriecold]

Why are we counting the 1.00 penalty as part of the element score. Regardless, the 3A has been looking pretty solid in training. It's ridiculous to say she should have been doing a double, unless you have been ignoring all her training practices and runthroughs.

Because she fell on it and got a -3 GOE due to it. That's the element in which she fell, so it's fair to say that the 1 point deduction takes points from that element.
That being said, I agree that she did the right call, with a small warning. The only reason she got that many points is that the 3A was fully rotated despite the fall.

 

[jenaj]

I do not think is that bad. Normal.

It was the same for the Russian ladies skaters for 6 full years at Worlds after Irina Slutskaya retired.

And most of skating history before Irina and, to a lesser extent, Maria, came on the scene.

 

[Mathman]

This is essentially what happened, if you swapped Dabin's placement for Maria's.

Seriously. The U.S. ladies are doing about what was expected -- maybe even a little better. One fall per program. Hoping for a top ten finish. Nothing to wring our hands about. Our ladies are just not at the top of the heap this time around. They did great in the team competition, though.

 

[cruzceleste]

Seriously. The U.S. ladies are doing about what was expected -- maybe even a little better. One fall per program. Hoping for a top ten finish. Nothing to wring our hands about. Our ladies are just not at the top of the heap this time around. They did great in the team competition, though.

Agree, just looking at their score the entire season you can tell there was no chance for a medal, unless the top 10 other girls bombed. The highest score for Bradie is only top 14 this season (Nationals doesn´t count).

Mirai and Karen don´t even made the top 20.

 

[Metis]

Slate has surprisingly good figure skating coverage (they were the one outlet I saw that correctly previewed men’s, for example), and they also had a piece on the state of the US women: https://slate.com/culture/2018/02/t...he-downfall-of-u-s-womens-figure-skating.html

Lipinski’s op-ed in the New York Times, will be paywalled if you’ve hit your “5 free articles per month” cap: https://nyti.ms/2BDxRt4

Both delve into deeper structural issues in USFS, how the US scouts and rewards talent, etc. Lipinski has an amazing ability to be logically and factually correct, yet present her argument in such a way that it becomes a moot point. 3Lo-3Lo, we know.....

 

[Blades of Passion]

Karen's program is exquisite, and better than Nagasu/Tennell for sure, but at her best she would have not surpassed Sakamoto's difficulty or Kostner's artistry (although that was overscored).

Except she would have, exactly as per the numbers. A +2 GOE 3Lutz+3Toe and 3Loop, and even just a tiny PCS increase for a clean performance, would have put her above Sakamoto and Kostner.

She didn't make two errors either in terms of the program, she made one, messing up the opening jump. Doing a Triple-Double later on doesn't inherently make choreography or interpretation worse, it just lowers your technical score because of not having the Triple-Triple. It's not as if a 3-3 is necessary to have one of the best programs or performances in the first place, as seen by Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen having some of the best SP's ever and only ever going for Triple-Double combos there.