Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron | Page 216 | Golden Skate

Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

Anyasnake

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
The French judge was doing it all season and it was discussed. Along with the US judge. I don't recall your posts discussing that though? Maybe you could link to them? I do recall you going to great lengths explaining why the scoring at GPF was correct but not so much about the French judge ;) I will just let that say what I think is enough on the topic.

But I still don't understand how you think his numbers in that article make any sense whatsoever. The math just doesn't support it. Just looking at the FD (because you consider the SD to even out). The Canadian just was the lowest score on ONLY THREE areas of the FD: she gave them +2 on Twizzles (when all others gave +3) so that was thrown out, and she gave them two 9.75 in Performance and Interpretation when all others gave 10 (so those those were thrown out). The end result for those three sections was that P/C received 100% possible marks with 1.80 in GOE for twizzles and 10's in both Interpretation and Perfomance so mathematically it's more than insignificant. In all other areas she gave either the same lowest mark as at least one other judge OR sometimes, believe it or not, higher GOE than some other judges.

Math doesn't lie. Again, sorry to derail but I keep reading this theme building here and it's just so incorrect something needed to be said.

Argue they lost because her dress broke causing her to lose balance whenever she twizzled, fair enough if one believes that because it's clear the majority of the judges wanted them to win. But you cannot argue they lost because of the Canadian judge. The math just proves that wrong everytime.

No we didn't discuss the FRA judge, nor the SD by the way because we knew what would happenned : both countries would score their teams higher. And in the SD it did balanced out like I said. So there was no point in saying "the FRA judge overscored them or the CAN judge underscored them", because at least it was enough of a balance to neglect it. I'm not going to be a hypocrite on that one for sure.

We're also not really arguing the SD incident which was unfortunate on so many levels, nor V/M performances, who objectively might have skated their best ever. That is not our point.

The main issue is in the scoring of the FD. We knew again what was going to happen because you could not have a more lenient panel for the Canadians. We just said said that if there was a FRA judge here, or at least no CAN judge, those little points would have make a difference.
Of course if you took away the CAN judge and reduce it to 8 judges, the French would have won. And if you took both FRA and CAN judge away from both SD and FD, same case scenario. If the lowest mark changes, a higher mark is taken as the lowest (if there isn't the same one of course) and the mean changes. These little differences would have had another outcome, that's where it's frustrating.

Moreover, a CAN judge, president of the federation acting like there was no conflict of interest whatsoever is the most baffling. The double standard is unbelievable. Never in a million years France would have escaped that, especially with the legion of skating fans in Canada. And I'm not talking about a +4 point jump in a week for the FD too because if it was P/C's case, you'd never hear the end of it. Not saying V/M doesn't deserve it, but that it's legitimate that we ask ourselves some questions of course.

EDIT : CAS, please understand that it's not my point to attack you, or be blinded or anything in that line whatsoever of course. It's obviously not easy to always be objective, but it surely isn't when you're given evidence in that sense either. Yes, V/M in the FD did have the panel on their side that one time. Yes it might have made all the difference. We're not saying that they are not deserving at all, though, that's for sure. It would be nice though to not have those situations at the Olympics ever again.
 

Riviva

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
No we didn't discuss the FRA judge, nor the SD by the way because we knew what would happenned : both countries would score their teams higher. And in the SD it did balanced out like I said. So there was no point in saying "the FRA judge overscored them or the CAN judge underscored them", because at least it was enough of a balance to neglect it. I'm not going to be a hypocrite on that one for sure.

We're also not really arguing the SD incident which was unfortunate on so many levels, nor V/M performances, who objectively might have skated their best ever. That is not our point.

The main issue is in the scoring of the FD. We knew again what was going to happen because you could not have a more lenient panel for the Canadians. We just said said that if there was a FRA judge here, or at least no CAN judge, those little points would have make a difference.
Of course if you took away the CAN judge and reduce it to 8 judges, the French would have won. And if you took both FRA and CAN judge away from both SD and FD, same case scenario. If the lowest mark changes, a higher mark is taken as the lowest (if there isn't the same one of course) and the mean changes. These little differences would have had another outcome, that's where it's frustrating.

Moreover, a CAN judge, president of the federation acting like there was no conflict of interest whatsoever is the most baffling. The double standard is unbelievable. Never in a million years France would have escaped that, especially with the legion of skating fans in Canada. And I'm not talking about a +4 point jump in a week for the FD too because if it was P/C's case, you'd never hear the end of it. Not saying V/M doesn't deserve it, but that it's legitimate that we ask ourselves some questions of course.

EDIT : CAS, please understand that it's not my point to attack you, or be blinded or anything in that line whatsoever of course. It's obviously not easy to always be objective, but it surely isn't when you're given evidence in that sense either. Yes, V/M in the FD did have the panel on their side that one time. Yes it might have made all the difference. We're not saying that they are not deserving at all, though, that's for sure. It would be nice though to not have those situations at the Olympics ever again.

The point is that they dont deserve it in that case.
And dont be sorry all the time while talking to the vm fan, because they say worse things without any consequences and nobody is sorry
Cannot something to be done?
 

CAS

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
You did your Maths; and a very subjective version of "maths" it is. Unfortunately, you don't really understand how scoring works, and you don't understand the basic maths used for scoring ice dance. The articles Alain has presented are correct and their mathematically correct conclusions are objectively presented and appropriately framed.

I know very much how the system works and have worked with it. But again, thanks for your input :)

I see jumping in to this discussion was the wrong decision. People need to believe what makes them feel better. And yes, that applies to all fans of all teams. I just have worked with this system in the past and thought it was prudent to say something considering the influx of articles. I should have known better.
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
I know very much how the system works and have worked with it. But again, thanks for your input :)

I see jumping in to this discussion was the wrong decision. People need to believe what makes them feel better. And yes, that applies to all fans of all teams. I just have worked with this system in the past and thought it was prudent to say something considering the influx of articles. I should have known better.

No, you don't know how the system works; especially with regard to how judges from countries use it to skew results for their own teams. I understand that you were a data-entry person for competitions, so your use and knowledge of the system would be the most basic and rudimentary and least analytical of any person within that competition, but you should not mistake that for an in-depth understanding of the system, or how a judge can use it to skew the results for her team.

With regard to the articles presented, they are objective and appropriately framed presentations of mathematically correct findings.
 

Riviva

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
I know very much how the system works and have worked with it. But again, thanks for your input :)

I see jumping in to this discussion was the wrong decision. People need to believe what makes them feel better. And yes, that applies to all fans of all teams. I just have worked with this system in the past and thought it was prudent to say something considering the influx of articles. I should have known better.

LOL v/m uber typical talk after their winnining
IT is not some believing... Those are facts. Canadian judge was biased , for purpose she undermarked P/C and she gave almost the same score in fd like for "un perfect ,akward " SP. Look at the japanese marks
Maybe you explain us why rhumba pattern was not called 3l then? Because it was almost the same quality as in team event SINCE YOU RE SO SPECIALIST
 

CAS

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
No, you don't know how the system works; especially with regard to how judges from countries use it to skew results for their own teams. I understand that you were a data-entry person for competitions, so your use and knowledge of the system would be the most basic and rudimentary and least analytical of any person within that competition, but you should not mistake that for an in-depth understanding of the system, or how a judge can use it to skew the results for her team.

With regard to the articles presented, they are objective and appropriately framed presentations of mathematically correct findings.

Ok :) This is pointless to discuss further. Have a nice day and enjoy your show tomorrow night.
 

Anyasnake

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
This thread is derailing. Please all of you stop. If you have nothing to do here, go away, and let's get back to the real topic, shall we ?
 

Bcash

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
This thread is derailing. Please all of you stop. If you have nothing to do here, go away, and let's get back to the real topic, shall we ?

After all the detailed watching and rewatching, I really have to say the quality of P/C's movements on the ice is unparalleled. I find Sandra Bezic's comment that V/M had their Moonlight Sonata 8 years ago utterly funny now, because in no way that bland and clunky program can be compared to P/C'a FD this season.
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
This thread is derailing. Please all of you stop. If you have nothing to do here, go away, and let's get back to the real topic, shall we ?

I missed most of the drama. Meanwhile I'm here imagining what kind of tango they will perform next year and what direction they will go with the free. Hopefully avant garde :pray:
 

Charis

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Ok :) This is pointless to discuss further. Have a nice day and enjoy your show tomorrow night.

Of course we are going to enjoy our show tomorrow night and every day and with everything which has to do with our lovely Gabriella and Guillaume!!For us they are the BEST now and forever!!! :hap10:
 

Anyasnake

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
I missed most of the drama. Meanwhile I'm here imagining what kind of tango they will perform next year and what direction they will go with the free. Hopefully avant garde :pray:
A lot of it has been erased (thankfully... so unecessary !)

I can't wait for the tango either ! :biggrin: But it's a new version of the SD now, you can put another rythm of your choice... I don't know if you HAVE to, but still. Tango + what ?

Little do we know, they're going to go Tango + reggaetton :laugh2:
 

icetigger

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
I missed most of the drama. Meanwhile I'm here imagining what kind of tango they will perform next year and what direction they will go with the free. Hopefully avant garde :pray:

I think tango actually lends itself to quite a liberal/borderline avant grade interpretation too. I think it's to do with the crookedness of the rhythm. I'm not hoping for a "flower in the mouth" type tango from them.
 

Fool

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Country
South-Korea
My skating friend - and probably a lot of people here too - feels that the absence of a sexual side to their relationship is probably what makes them so special, what makes their love and bond so pure and so deep and so high.
I'm not yet so high up on the spiritual ladder, but I'll get there one day! :eek::

If you want to have a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UNvzfiyFOU :laugh:
(I'm ridiculously ignorant, so who is Guillaume's stand-in?)

Late but: I'm like your skating friend, I'm all about this "lack of" (not the best way to describe it but idk how else to) sexual undertones. It's what has catapulted them into one of if not my all time faves, I really can't get enough of that part. Perhaps because it's so rare in ice dance? Anyway I don't consider myself high up on the spiritual ladder :laugh: I think it speaks volumes of their appeal that someone like me adores them for this reason, and someone like you with different preferences also loves them :eek::
 

cocotaffy

Final Flight
Joined
May 21, 2014
They're in London per Guillaume's instagram story. They gonna need all the time in the world tomorrow to get use to that microscopic ice rink.
As for next season, I wonder it they gonna reproduce this season by starting early in a B competition and be as ready as they were. Or after such an exhausting Olympic season, will they take it easier ? I also hope they'll enrich their collection of GP medals. So far they have a bunch from the GP de France but only two CoC. Maybe an NHK or Rostelecom this year. They could also be invited to Skate Canada provided W/P doesn't make it to the podium. Would be convenient travel wise. I must be in a slight withdrawal waiting for Worlds but at least we get a number of interesting articles and little videos from them. They are ever so discrete, they don't seem to milk their silver medal win at all compared to other medallists being engaged left and right. It reminds me of an interview on French TV where Candeloro was telling them now was the time to jump on all those opportunities and sell themselves to which Gaby answered what interested them was skating. This sums up why I love them so much, they're doing what they love not to reach any GOAT status but just because they love doing it. A bit like Martin Fourcade who said he's aim was not to be the most decorated athletes ever. I bet they just can't wait to go back to compete in Milan and present those programs one last time.
 

Camille1409

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 8, 2017
This thread is derailing. Please all of you stop. If you have nothing to do here, go away, and let's get back to the real topic, shall we ?

I agree with you so much, I'm coming were for interviews links and some others media stuff after the olympics. But clearly I just scroll down to the link without reading a.n.y.t.h.i.n.g because this thread has turned in a way I simply don't like. It must be use to share informations not to fights about judges decisions (you've got so much other social media to do it if you really want to take that way....). So please can we just turn back to what the thread used to be aka a gentle place where everyone was nice to each other, where we can share artistic point of views, and all positives statements.
 

cocotaffy

Final Flight
Joined
May 21, 2014
https://twitter.com/torvillanddean/status/970014860871454720 Tank top back on ! And the old dress too ? :eek: That's a great picture though :laugh:

So I guess we will all have to be stressed like hell while they perform the SD at Worlds as this dress is not going anywhere :eeking: I prefer the tank top tbh even though that other top was great for enhancing the lines. This top is more in "the dancing in the streets" feeling they want to create. Shallow comment: every time Guillaume stands close to some else I'm always shocked by how tall he is. When all the French Olympics medalist were standing on that stage in Grenoble he was the tallest with Fourcade.
I'm also happy they get to spend time with Torvill and Dean, I hope they collaborate some more in the future. It will be a good distraction from all the Olympics houpla. I also want the photo where their fan from the very beginning aka Mark Hanretty is asking for an autograph :laugh:
 
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