Boyang Jin to Train under Brian Orser

[chopinskate]

I just don't think anyone should be losing their minds over what little was revealed. There's probably a lot going on behind the scenes. They don't owe us all the information. It's part of being fans -- we don't know half the things.

Maybe there will be another interview. Maybe there won't be, and we'll know of the situation after the season begins. Maybe we won't find out anything at all. Nothing in the article suggested to me that Yuzuru was uncomfortable (nor did it suggest he was comfortable -- he didn't react). There's also just no reason for me to think they will be giving us further information either.

This is a good career move for Boyang. I'm happy about that. I don't think it's healthy, when I know none of the men involved, to decide what else is good or bad for them, especially when I really don't know what happened in its entirety.

 

[Sorrento]

I don't think it's healthy, when I know none of the men involved, to decide what else is good or bad for them, especially when I really don't know what happened in its entirety.

What happened was no reaction from Hanyu when the news was broken to him. Brian is a coach, he's older, he came with a visit- all the reasons to be polite to someone you respect and who is a guest of yours in your house. Brian needs to realize that reaction will come later on. The conversation is not finalized.
Yeah I'm happy for Boyang to land a great coach. I'm not happy the way Brian handled things.
And I am free to express this without pointing out who needs a coach and who does not as other posters here do.

 

[chopinskate]

What happened was no reaction from Hanyu when the news was broken to him. Brian is a coach, he's older, he came with a visit- all the reasons to be polite to someone you respect and who is a guest of yours in your house. Brian needs to realize that reaction will come later on. The conversation is not finalized.

And I am free to express this without pointing out who needs a coach and who does not as other posters here do.

Sure, except I'm not sure how reliable the narration is or if it's the full story. I'm not sure what "didn't react" means, for one. And Brian indeed realizes there could have been a reaction later -- he says he thinks there might have been a reaction by now. He didn't just think "Well, there's no reaction there! W00t!". It seems he'd presented it to him as a fait accompli, of course Yuzuru didn't react immediately. Orser isn't stupid to think that was it.

Could he have handled it better? Very probably. Do I know everything? Definitely not. I also don't know what differences exist between Javier and Yuzuru to make explicit comments on what should have been done -- different people for one, different point of their careers for another.

Yes, you are free to express your opinion. I, too, happen to have an opinion on that.

 

[pherx4]

The mentioned of Yuzu's reaction is to stir the pot and create drama. Don't drink the kool-aid. Out of all the top guys, I'm glad it's Boyang who is going to Brian. He will have a lot of pressure to medal at the next Olympics and Brian have experience with it.

 

[Sorrento]

Yes, you are free to express your opinion. I, too, happen to have an opinion on that.

We don't have an argument here. Yup, we don't know all the details but from that article it all sounds really worrisome to me. And not to me only.

 

[eaglehelang]

In regards to Boyang, its been posted in Boyang's FF that Kurt Browning may be doing a program for him this season.

That'll be interesting since I dont think Browning ever choreographed something for Boyang.

 

[Eclair]

What happened was no reaction from Hanyu when the news was broken to him. Brian is a coach, he's older, he came with a visit- all the reasons to be polite to someone you respect and who is a guest of yours in your house. Brian needs to realize that reaction will come later on. The conversation is not finalized.
Yeah I'm happy for Boyang to land a great coach. I'm not happy the way Brian handled things.
And I am free to express this without pointing out who needs a coach and who does not as other posters here do.

or maybe after the communication problems the two had, they agreed that if something bothered one of them, then that one would speak up directly. So Brian told Yuzu Boyang is coming here and waited a while (I think he said he told him in March or April), whether Yuzu would object or not. Since he didn't, Brian broke the news to the public.

we don't know until Brian is asked for further clarification..

 

[chopinskate]

In regards to Boyang, its been posted in Boyang's FF that Kurt Browning may be doing a program for him this season.

That'll be interesting since I dont think Browning ever choreographed something for Boyang.

Posted here, too:

Kurt Browning is cooking something up for Boyang:
https://twitter.com/mypantsronfire/status/1002042925885214721


If people really want to guess, don't highlight the text here: It's Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite 3

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In regards to Boyang, its been posted in Boyang's FF that Kurt Browning may be doing a program for him this season.

That'll be interesting since I dont think Browning ever choreographed something for Boyang.

I think Boyang has a lot of potential to be an artistic skater. It will be interesting to see if Browning can help Boyang get there.

 

[icybear]

But it doesn't mean this is what Yuzuru thinks of all of this.
They need to have a very long and very open conversation- Brian and Yuzuru, face to face. And I really hope Yuzuru will express all the things he has in mind about new training surrounding. He's not done. And if Yuzuru would demand Brian to be there for him same volume- so should Brian do. It is Yuzuru who's paying him not vice versa.

I was shocked when I read this and honestly disappointed with Orser... That just screams bad news...

If I were Yuzuru, I would be thinking, who am I to object? Doesn't mean I don't have problem... Orser, oh, Orser. I'm not excited anymore I'm worried for Yuzuru

Orser asked Javi before Yuzuru moved in was because the main reason Javi moved to Orser was because his previous coach spent too much time in another skater instead of him so Orser knows Javi might fear the same thing happening again if Yuzuru comes. Also why do people think Yuzuru would have an objection. He had to train with Javi all those time and it hasn't hindered either of them.

 

[Danny T]

LOL from football to FS there's always drama ~

My personal take is that Phil Hersh is a terrible jounalist and I wouldn't be so quick to trust anything in that article aside from the quotes. (Even Phil is not bad enough to misquote, but we just have to be content with not knowing what specific question prompted that quote.) Whatever comparison between Fernandez and Hanyu is in Hersh's words, not Orser's so I'm taking it with a mountain of salt. If judging from the BOrser quote alone, he "didn't really ask [Hanyu] for permission". Which makes sense, considering Hanyu is Orser's client, not his boss, so asking for "permission" would be weird. But he did tell Hanyu directly about the move, even came to his apartment for it, so I would assume they had a conversation. Between then (late Apr?) and when the news dropped there's a month in between, if Hanyu has things he wants to say, I certainly hope he would have said it already. Sure, he might not be able to veto the coaching change entirely, but he can request for adjustment of training time and his coaching team if he wants. If he kept it to himself and worst come to worst this whole thing implodes, it's everyone's fault, not Brian's alone.

TBH, I'd be way more worried if Brian dropped the news in TCC's dressing room or something. The fact that there was a house visit kind of guarantees a conversation longer than three sentences did occur.

(Even further off-tangent, didn't the Kim-Orser incident happen in part because Yuna/her team heard about Mao's supposed coaching change through the news? At least we're sure Hanyu didn't first know about Boyang through GoldenSkate )
______

Back on topic, TCC doesn't have boards ... Boyang, please don't crash into the huge mirror on the wall pleasee :roll5: I'm excited about whatever Kurt has in store, probably an exhibition?? Didn't Kurt do that one EX for Hanyu that was a bit, well, mature when Hanyu first moved to Toronto? I think it was mentioned Boyang will be getting choreo from Lori (again) for his competitive programmes.

 

[irriya]

I'm a Yuzu fan and I like Boyang too. To be honest, I do hope BO had good communication with Yuzu about this especially Yuzu had decided to continue his career. But I also understand that BO wanted to get more students. Boyang would continue till next Olympics, but Yuzu hadn't decided how long he would continue. So it's almost impossible for BO to reject any students without Yuzu's "permission". I just hope everything is going well. I hope CC will have the best arrangement and everyone will get good training since CC will be supper crowded

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Orser asked Javi before Yuzuru moved in was because the main reason Javi moved to Orser was because his previous coach spent too much time in another skater instead of him so Orser knows Javi might fear the same thing happening again if Yuzuru comes. Also why do people think Yuzuru would have an objection. He had to train with Javi all those time and it hasn't hindered either of them.

Brian and Yuzu had their own share of bad communication related problems in the past, just think of 2016 WC. Which I'd think would be more directly influencing the behaviour between Brian & Yuzu then Javis issues with a previous coach. (And AFAIR, back in 2016 some of the accusiations leveled at Brian included him not taking enough care/spending enough time with Yuzu but prioritizing Javi.)
Also, it's two different things to say Yuzu might object to Boyang coming, or Yuzu might be unhappy/displeased with the way Brian handled it. Personally, I don't think Yuzu would have objected to Boyang joining TCC, but if I was Yuzu and I knew Javi had to give consent for me to be accepted, I'd feel dumbfounded and irritated my feelings/opinions in the same situation are apparently not valued to the same extent. And before someone comes with the whole "but it's a business and Brian can accept any skater he wants" - sure theoretically he can. But creating an environment that works for all the skaters invovled is an important point of a well functioning coaching relationship, and taking in a clear, direct rival will change the environment of any skater. So it's a situation that should be handled with care, and rather with going the extra mile then shrugging potential problems off.
It's true we don't know the whole extent of the situation and talk between them, and I wouldn't trust what Hersh put around the actual quotes either. But while I like Brian, and I still like him regardless, this does make me feel uneasy and I can only hope no trouble will come out of it - and especially that everything works out well for both Yuzu and Boyang.

 

[fierysky]

I'm pretty irritated with Hersh on this article. The focus is supposed to be on Jason and to a lesser extent Boyang, but all anyone cares about at this point is a selectively chosen quote, placed so conveniently at the end of the article so that's all ppl remember.

I admire Yuzuru, but he gets a ton of press coverage already, and I'm a bit tired in seeing how journalists likes turning the story to be about him. Let others shine and be the focus for once.

My personal take is that Phil Hersh is a terrible jounalist and I wouldn't be so quick to trust anything in that article aside from the quotes. (Even Phil is not bad enough to misquote, but we just have to be content with not knowing what specific question prompted that quote.) Whatever comparison between Fernandez and Hanyu is in Hersh's words, not Orser's so I'm taking it with a mountain of salt. If judging from the BOrser quote alone, he "didn't really ask [Hanyu] for permission". Which makes sense, considering Hanyu is Orser's client, not his boss, so asking for "permission" would be weird. But he did tell Hanyu directly about the move, even came to his apartment for it, so I would assume they had a conversation. Between then (late Apr?) and when the news dropped there's a month in between, if Hanyu has things he wants to say, I certainly hope he would have said it already. Sure, he might not be able to veto the coaching change entirely, but he can request for adjustment of training time and his coaching team if he wants. If he kept it to himself and worst come to worst this whole thing implodes, it's everyone's fault, not Brian's alone.

TBH, I'd be way more worried if Brian dropped the news in TCC's dressing room or something. The fact that there was a house visit kind of guarantees a conversation longer than three sentences did occur

THIS so much. Coaches are actually not obligated to ask "permission" from their student to accept another. I'm always confused as to why no one ever questions if RA or Eteri ever asks for "permission" from their students. Unless the original arrangement was for Orser to be the sole coach etc., which we all know it's not the case, then he is not obliged to do so. Top coaches, especially an experienced one like Orser, should also be quite well aware of their workload and capabilities so I'm not worried. I mean Orser was self aware enough to be quite upfront with Jason that he could only train him in if he agrees to be coached in a team arrangement. He also did not say yes to Evgeni a right away until he made sure him and team had the capacity to work it in. Orser seems like some one who is very upfront about things, and as long as you tell him, he will try to accommodate.

However, no obligation aside, a good coach will check with his students to give them a heads up, and see if they have any input or concerns and work from there. In fact, Orser was actually quite courteous to give Yuzuru a heads up and to see if he has any response, which we don't even know is a courtesy extended to his other students. Yuzuru is not Orser's only commitment.

Like Danny said, this wasn't some random, casual encounter in the hallway or something. Orser took did this in a private setting and at the comfort of Yuzuru's place, soI highly doubt the conversation ended then and there. Plus, Yuzuru had at least a month, maybe even two, to discuss further if needed. People always demand Orser to be sensitive to the Asian politeness and their cultural nuances, but forget that communication is a two way street, and Yuzuru needs to also be adaptive to the Western tendency to speak up when he has issues.

And it sounds to me like Orser knows that. Also by bringing Javi into his explanation, Orser seems to imply: see, Javi had to put up with you joining the team years ago, now it is your turn to put up with Boyang's arrival. Not even too subtle

There is no indication that Orser mentioned Javi to Yuzu at all. That entire paragraph was Hersh's own concoction, don't fall into his trap. I just love how Hersh wrote that in to remind everyone that Orser once checked with Javi, then immediately place a very selective quote about "oh Orser didn't ask for 'permission' this time" . The whole Javi permission thing was always weird to me anyways, like I highly doubt Orser would actually turn Yuzuru down if Javi had said no. It's more like Javi's opinions were considered and they'd likely work things around if Javi objected.

 

[StitchMonkey]

To everyone worrying about Hanyu not being kept in the loop and made to feel ok about this... apparently Brian told Jason Brown about Boyang's move and made sure he was ok with it before Jason made the move... I can't help but feel than Brian is keeping a prospective skater in the loop respectfully, that he gave Hanyu at at least as much courtesy.

 

[OS]

Afternoon tea at the cricket club

BO: Soo everyone.. I have decided to take on Nathan Chen at the cricket club, just want to let you know as a courtesy.
Everyone <Stunned blank face. Smiles politely. Not saying anything. Sips tea. Feeding Pooh sandwiches. Hugs a puppy. >

Phil calls BO: So how did it go?
BO: Everyone had no reaction. I think it went really well. We are going to have a spectacular happy training environment. Lots of little Javi in waiting.

 

[Jaana]

I believe that Hanyu understands that as a two-time Olympic champion he is definitely the top priority, Jin is the new kid on the block and he´ll be the second priority at TCC. They both will be coached by Orser and Wilson = the main coaches at TCC.

 

[noskates]

How about giving Brian some credit? Why would anyone think he hasn't discussed these changes with his existing skaters? And quite frankly, coaching is his livelihood so why should he need a blessing from Hanyu or anybody else?

 

[Midnightcass]

Wow this thread turned ugly.
From what I gathered, one must take Hersh articles with a giant grain of salt and you shouldn't trust anything more than the direct quotes.
I believe that every skater that has Brian as a main coach would be his top priority. There wouldn't and shouldn't be first or second priorities if he is to maintain a calm, productive environment.
To imply that one skater is his top priority would be unfair to the other skaters and I genuinely hope that it not the case.
If I had a coach and another skater was his ‘main priority’ , I would switch real quick.
Let's not make implications or throw accusations until we see actual ‘drama’

 

[khtmyzr]

I’m not sure if here is the right place to ask, but is Brian not the main coach for Junhwan? I don’t see him being mentioned much in discussions about Jason and Boyang.

I’m sorry if this is derailing the thread.

_________

ETA: I agree with taking this article with a pile of salt. I also think that Brian is wise enough to try his best not to stir up any problems from the coaching arrangements ans I do think that at this point in life/career Yuzu is wise enough to effectively voice his concern if there is any.