Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

[StephenGfan]

LOL, I didnt know all of P/C shorts were lyrical as well. Thanks for letting us know
And people are not bored. What are you talking about?
And I would like to remind you that lyrical artistry executed by V/M is easier to perform then P/C's. It is not so easy like people want to think. Not to mention that 80% of FS from V/M are lyrical as well. Actually, after seeing P/C short form last Worlds in Saitama I am sure PC would perform amazing Carmen. Anyway, it is clasical music, right ?
I think people dont know what versality means. It is not changing a music. Turn off the music and watch Umbrellas and Mahler. Or Funny face. Intepretation is the same. Sweety lovey dovey acting. Nothing more. Nothing deeper.They smile all the time. Turn off the music and watch valse triste and frees from 17/18 and their second olympic season or and (sorry I dont remeber the music,they were lyrical) The same stuff, right? But people will be saying that Mozart is the same as Black Eyes (lol) They danced to clasical music twice - Mozart in 14/15 and Moonlight sonata in 18/19 but the interpretation is COMPLETELY different. Mozart is more modern , with a story while MS is pure intepratation of the music..They are in completely different mood.

LOL welcome to goldenskate nice first post . Mute the volume and look at any of P/C's programs. Its always them looking pained and faux deep. P/C's RD/SD'a are not all lyrical and arent all the same however the skating stays the same as another poster in here mentioned. It doesn't matter what program it is its the same flowly pretty skating. in their shape of you SD its latin themed but P/C's skating is still ethereal. In lindy hop its old timey themed while P/C's skating stays pretty and ethereal. hold up, Your telling me tessa/scott never changed interepration with programs like pinkflloyd, farrucas and prince? I can't i need some water.

 

[litenkyckling]

LOL, I didnt know all of P/C shorts were lyrical as well. Thanks for letting us know
And people are not bored. What are you talking about?
And I would like to remind you that lyrical artistry executed by V/M is easier to perform then P/C's.

I find it odd that you've made this all about V/M when they aren't even competing anymore, and the thread is about who can challenge P/C now? (I also don't agree with the idea that V/M never changed their interpretation, but I don't see the point in going into that here as it's a bit off topic). I think it's fair that fans of the sport can have this discussion without sarcastic and hypersensitive responses. It was a simple question - no one is suggesting that everything they've ever done has been lyrical, but to be fair, I don't think SD/RD choices really count as they were restricted. When given the freedom to choose, this is what they have chosen to do.

I also think that the discussion around their choices is an important one when discussing if they can be challenged. They have (so far) chosen to stick to very similar styles of music/rhythms and brand of movement. For me personally, I find this frustrating because they have the talent to do something totally out of the box for them. I appreciate the art that they put on the ice (but I don't appreciate the tone of some of the posts here which come across as "you don't understand art and are not a cultured enough if you dare to criticise P/C"). For example, after this year's RD it would be nice to see them tackle a Tango FD and explore tango movement more.

With regards as to who can challenge them, I'm not sure. Taking skating skills out of it (which I know are vital, but a) a team may improve drastically from one season to the next so who knows what may change next season (lol not really this is ice dancing), b) after the PCS scoring we've seen this year, it's a hm? from me) but just looking at overall packaging - I still don't know. It surely has to be a total contrast to what P/C offer? This is where I think the versatility in range of styles that is missing from P/C's repertoire comes into play. I think the team that will challenge them has to show range, that they can do tango, waltz, flamenco, paso, blues, musicals, whatever, but that they can do these brilliantly. But that's just my opinion.

But what I will say, is that I think that it's important that someone does challenge them. To begin with, its good for the sport as it makes it more sellable to an audience and pushes all the teams. Secondly, it's important for them as athletes (surely?). Would they be as good as they are had V/M not come back? Who knows, but I think that there is every chance that they wouldn't have pushed themselves as far as they have and I also think that not winning sometimes might have been more competitive fuel that they needed going forward.

anyway, this is just my opinion. And we can all have our own opinions. We have a right to an opinion, and I don't think that people should be talked to in a rude way for expressing one.

 

[CHCreation]

Well, ok, my apologies I didn't follow this thread super closely but to be fair pretty much your entire post was about V/M so.... Anyway, I don't think I was being rude or unfair, I (assume) we're all adults here, capable of adult discussion without jumping down eachother's throats.

Ok, but I dont agree ,actually it was about PC and VM. No offence. Peace.i was trying to be polite.Mr Stephengfan was very straightforward and sure about the topic

 

[Eleanor]

LOL welcome to goldenskate nice first post . Mute the volume and look at any of P/C's programs. Its always them looking pained and faux deep. P/C's RD/SD'a are not all lyrical and arent all the same however the skating stays the same as another poster in here mentioned. It doesn't matter what program it is its the same flowly pretty skating. in their shape of you SD its latin themed but P/C's skating is still ethereal. In lindy hop its old timey themed while P/C's skating stays pretty and ethereal. hold up, Your telling me tessa/scott never changed interepration with programs like pinkflloyd, farrucas and prince? I can't i need some water.

And how do you want them to skate ?... They are not going to change more than a decade of work. No team in any sport would, ever (unless they have some really bad technique they correct under a new coaching, I've seen that happen but that's not P/C's case and it's limited to what they can improve without completely loosing the athlete)
I really don't see the ethereal in Shape of You. Yes, they are both very light-footed on the ice, that doesn't make everything they do ethereal and floaty.
The first part of the blues/lindy hop is definitely what people consider their style.. But the lindy hop ? Ethereal and floaty ? :hpull: They are pretty dynamic, exhuberant and they even added some humor during the first part of the season.

And since we're at it, I totally agree with another poster who says that V/M had the same interpretation everywhere. I feel exactly the same and you laugh at his opinion . It just proves how subjective our views on a couple and their artistry can be. And how we should never consider our truth universal.

 

[CHCreation]

LOL welcome to goldenskate nice first post . Mute the volume and look at any of P/C's programs. Its always them looking pained and faux deep. P/C's RD/SD'a are not all lyrical and arent all the same however the skating stays the same as another poster in here mentioned. It doesn't matter what program it is its the same flowly pretty skating. in their shape of you SD its latin themed but P/C's skating is still ethereal. In lindy hop its old timey themed while P/C's skating stays pretty and ethereal. hold up, Your telling me tessa/scott never changed interepration with programs like pinkflloyd, farrucas and prince? I can't i need some water.

Gee.. I can mute Pc programs but you have to mute V/Ms as well.Because you are trying pursuade me that Pc are always the same , but not V/M
And we have to decide we tak about only free programs or shorts as well? You mix them all up. I dont compare their Mozart with Shape of your body. For you they are the same which I found , forgive me ridicolous. And then you start compare VMs Prince and you tel it is completely different then ..for instance Pink Floyd. While you cannot see that Prince has the same style as their rhumba from 17/18. Many of their programs look a like

 

[litenkyckling]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about who could challenge P/C going forward? What is the point in posts that are just arguing about P/C vs V/M - that was relevant literally over a year ago so perhaps we should look to the future? I don't think that this thread is actually going anywhere at this point?

 

[CHCreation]

I agree. But people come here saying that PC are not versatile and they will be keep repeating lyrical programs. that was alos NOT the topic of that thread but you didnt mind

 

[GS Forum Staff]

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[ancientpeas]

BTW.. I think we need to look back to P/C's jr. career to see that they can do non lyrical programs very well. I did not find the Tango they did this year lyrical. I thought it was their best RD/SD ever. I can't say though that I wouldn't love to see P/C go totally outside the box and do something really avant-garde or something with a real beat to it. Maybe drum music of the African or Brazilian flavour?

 

[temadd]

I have high hopes for Macnamara/Carpenter. They have speed and beautiful lines. I am mesmerized every time I watch them. Of all the dance teams around, they remind me most of P/C

 

[Casual]

Those who don't see P/C's versatility make me think of a hypothetical person who would enter a room full of Monet paintings and complain that all the paintings are the same style. Well, Monet is going to paint like the impressionist he is. But people who love his paintings don't feel we're looking at the same painting.

Versatility is the spice of life. I happen to adore Monet, but I would die of boredom if his paintings were the only ones available. Wouldn't you?

Also, sorry, they are not Monet, who - for all his distinctive style - was actually more versatile, both in technique and, most importantly, in emotions that he brought to life.

What is the purpose of art but to let us feel the whole different range of emotions? To live fully, we have to experience it all. That's the attraction of art. The job of an artist is to provide this varied emotional experience. That's true in painting, but even more so for performing arts, such as dancing.

P/C both succeeded and failed. If we agree that the main point of skating is to create a sublime emotional "moment" for the audience - when the audience feels deeply, mesmerized and in awe - they've succeeded, at first; but then they failed in creating a different type of experience the next time, and instead, they just re-create the same (ol', same ol') moment, from one performance to another.

P/C may be brilliant in their style, but their range is narrow. The emotional reach of their programs is limited. After awhile, their "pained expressions" feel not soulfully artistic, but artificial, because the emotional vibe is static.

 

[DSQ]

^
Different strokes for different folks. I happen to think Papadakis & Cizeron display a range of emotions expressed in different programs.

I honestly cannot see how people think their light fun Ed Sheeran Rhumba is anything like their intense Piazzolla Tango; how their mournful Moonlight Sonata is like this year’s warm and inviting pop songs by Rachel Yamagata.

But I do understand that everyone has their preferences and I respect that, but it is just personal opinion and I take issue with people stating so decidedly that everything they do is the same.

 

[CHCreation]

Versatility is the spice of life. I happen to adore Monet, but I would die of boredom if his paintings were the only ones available. Wouldn't you?

Also, sorry, they are not Monet, who - for all his distinctive style - was actually more versatile, both in technique and, most importantly, in emotions that he brought to life.

What is the purpose of art but to let us feel the whole different range of emotions? To live fully, we have to experience it all. That's the attraction of art. The job of an artist is to provide this varied emotional experience. That's true in painting, but even more so for performing arts, such as dancing.

P/C both succeeded and failed. If we agree that the main point of skating is to create a sublime emotional "moment" for the audience - when the audience feels deeply, mesmerized and in awe - they've succeeded, at first; but then they failed in creating a different type of experience the next time, and instead, they just re-create the same (ol', same ol') moment, from one performance to another.

P/C may be brilliant in their style, but their range is narrow. The emotional reach of their programs is limited. After awhile, their "pained expressions" feel not soulfully artistic, but artificial, because the emotional vibe is static.

No one tell you that you have to ONLY watch Monet . There are other painters as well as skaters, Whats your point and problem? But you cannot expect from Monet to paint like Picasso, right? Picasso was not so versality as well

"The emotional reach of their programs is limited" VM were also limited - they relied ONLY and MOSTLY on sexual chemistry, romantic programs. Carmen or Umbrellas, Waltz or mahler. You re mistaken music with emotions.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

Yes, Politics.

 

[Casual]

^
Different strokes for different folks. I happen to think Papadakis & Cizeron display a range of emotions expressed in different programs.

I honestly cannot see how people think their light fun Ed Sheeran Rhumba is anything like their intense Piazzolla Tango; how their mournful Moonlight Sonata is like this year’s warm and inviting pop songs by Rachel Yamagata.

But I do understand that everyone has their preferences and I respect that, but it is just personal opinion and I take issue with people stating so decidedly that everything they do is the same.

The one thing we all can agree on is P/C are undoubtedly artists, (unlike so many others among supposedly "top" teams).

That's why there's so much debate about P/C - some find them sublime, while others are bored by their perceived limitations, but that's art for you. At least with P/C there is something worthwhile to debate.

I hope whomever succeeds them next is also an artist, and of the top caliber. My money's on H/D; they've got the acting chops and SS, as well as the passion. They remind me most of V/M.

 

[CHCreation]

Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

Yes, Politics.

And we see it already.It is ridicolous and any people with good eyes and a brain can see how fake it is. ISU is desperate for any team to come up and make some excitement. But there is no reason to prop up mediocre skaters to make rivalrs for PC which is ridiculous and cringeworthy if we look at S/K

 

[Baron Vladimir]

And we see it already.It is ridicolous and any people with good eyes and a brain can see how fake it is. ISU is desperate for any team to come up and make some excitement. But there is no reason to prop up mediocre skaters to make rivalrs for PC which is ridiculous and cringeworthy if we look at S/K

S/K are not mediocre team. Nor any of top 8 finishers at Worlds are... And its not like judges put P/C less than 5 points ahead. 10 points overal difference is a big difference in points in Ice Dance. So those complains dont make sense...

 

[CHCreation]

S/K are not mediocre team. Nor any of top 8 finishers at Worlds are... And its not like judges put P/C less than 5 points ahead. 10 points overal difference is a big difference in points in Ice Dance. So those complains dont make sense...

Nikita's posture and his back is what bothers me.But their program is mediocre. It is like from 90s. A copy of french Mozart with russian poor quality drama. PCS score is ridicolous. Performance and intepretation with 10s?? I believe it is only for WTT.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Nikita's posture and his back is what bothers me.But their program is mediocre. It is like from 90s. A copy of french Mozart with russian poor quality drama. PCS score is ridicolous. Performance and intepretation with 10s?? I believe it is only for WTT.

I don't have a problem with high scores tho I would give P/C perfect 10 and S/K 9.75 for interpretation of the music/timing cause S/K timing was also perfect today and they were very expressive. I would give them 0.25 less just because they could express nuancies of the music with even more movements, but they gave a top level performance too. Program can't be mediocre when someone skated it that good, it can only be that you don't prefer that kind of a program. But judges need to give more/less an objective evaluation of someone's ability and not the evaluation of their own subjective preferencies. I mean, you can like some programs less and still score them higher if skating of those programs met the requirements better.

 

[believed]

It’s clear, even moreso now, that although there can be challengers to p/c, there won’t be anyone who will actually dethrone them. Look at their scores compared to everyone else.