Smiling in a serious performance?

[noskates]

I wasn't going to mention this but...since we're still talking about it - I was very offended at the 9/11 program because of the background sounds. I worked for a well-known bank at the time, had co-workers and clients in the Twin Towers and not many months before the incident had stayed at the Marriott while on a business trip. No I did not lose a spouse or a close friend but I still suffered loss. I thought it was callous and insensitive to use the background noises. I would have been fine with just the music but I, like many others in this country, was glued to the TV for hours and hours observing the aftermath, hearing those sounds and seeing the people that were affected. And as much as I like and admire Medvedeva, seeing a skinny young girl (albeit a beautiful one) in a short dress skating around to those sounds was a bit much.

Does that compare to a smile during a Schindler's List performance? I don't think it does. But everyone has an opinion about this. Before lyrics (and sounds) were allowed in skating progrms you could lose yourself in beautiful music. Now I just have to remind myself to look at the skating for what it is. the jumps, spins and footwork, and not necessarily as an interpretation of the music.

 

[sallyhatchet]

Yes OMG this drives me so nuts, not picking on Mariah specifically but lots of people do this, it's really distracting. For me a large part of skating is about emotional connection with the music and when there's a disconnect I can't appreciate it the same way. I can't think of an example off the top of my head but I wouldn't be thrilled if someone did a super joyful program looking miserable either haha.

 

[sworddance21]

Ok, here goes. Just my opinion but as a dance choreographer I have used this piece of music for a piece I set so I'm pretty familiar with it. I enjoy Mariah's interpretation. At least the last time I watched it (last weekend) she seemed to take quite a journey - she ends up in a smiling place but that's not where she starts. This quotation is - for me - a lovely description of what I think the song is about.

"Hallelujah," the song teaches us, is a refrain worthy of times of celebration, of mourning, of regret, of catharsis, and reconciliation. Cohen's song tells a story of broken love, true love remembered and mourned, guilt, penance, and of finding peace in the vicissitudes of brokenness—themes with a myriad of applications and dimensions."

Again - just my 2 cents - but like any excellent piece of art, Hallelujah is layered and open to many valid interpretations.

 

[sworddance21]

That's interesting! I often wondered how people who'd been affected by 9/11 might feel about that program. The music was beautiful, but I thought the sound effects could bring on flashbacks for someone who'd been personally affected.

Nice to hear your friend liked the program.

Without too much detail - after I saw it accidentally the first time I actively fast forwarded through Evgenia's free program that year. I couldn't listen to the sounds. I was in NY. I lost a friend in the tower. For me, it was too soon. Didn't have anything to do with whether she was capable of interpreting it or not - but I didn't want to hear those sounds. Still don't.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

Eteri herself was a survivor of the Oklahoma bombing. She has said that this changed her life, her perspective, everything. That’s why I thought that the program probably isn’t as offensive - it was made by a survivor who needed to tell a story. Btw, most of Evgenia’s programs were very personal for Eteri, this one included.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I wasn't going to mention this but...since we're still talking about it - I was very offended at the 9/11 program because of the background sounds. I worked for a well-known bank at the time, had co-workers and clients in the Twin Towers and not many months before the incident had stayed at the Marriott while on a business trip. No I did not lose a spouse or a close friend but I still suffered loss. I thought it was callous and insensitive to use the background noises. I would have been fine with just the music but I, like many others in this country, was glued to the TV for hours and hours observing the aftermath, hearing those sounds and seeing the people that were affected. And as much as I like and admire Medvedeva, seeing a skinny young girl (albeit a beautiful one) in a short dress skating around to those sounds was a bit much.

Without too much detail - after I saw it accidentally the first time I actively fast forwarded through Evgenia's free program that year. I couldn't listen to the sounds. I was in NY. I lost a friend in the tower. For me, it was too soon. Didn't have anything to do with whether she was capable of interpreting it or not - but I didn't want to hear those sounds. Still don't.

Eteri herself was a survivor of the Oklahoma bombing. She has said that this changed her life, her perspective, everything. That’s why I thought that the program probably isn’t as offensive - it was made by a survivor who needed to tell a story. Btw, most of Evgenia’s programs were very personal for Eteri, this one included.

Everyone is coping with a trauma in a different way. It's not fair to criticize people just because they have different coping mechanism than we have... The motive behind it surely was not to offend someone, but to tell what can happen in todays world. Ask your self a question - Do we need to stop talking about World War 2? Do we need to stop talking about nuclear bombs? Do we need to stop talking about 9/11? Do we need to stop talking about climate changes? Do we need to stop talking about bad things that happened to anyone individually just because it's too traumatic?... No... and we never should, if we want to learn from the past and build the better future...

 

[Mathman]

I can't think of an example off the top of my head but I wouldn't be thrilled if someone did a super joyful program looking miserable either haha.

Here is a somber Plushenko skating to Ode to Joy (Beethoven's Ninth). He went for religious awe and reverence rather than merry and bright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZWkl9UWEA

 

[Giltedge]

I can assure you that everyone in the United States was personally affected by 9/11. It changed our entire country, and not for the better.

Not surprising. Four of our most prominent cities were directly affected-New York City, Washington D.C., and also Boston and Los Angeles, where the most people on the planes came from. Everybody knows somebody who had affected friends, families, or acquaintenances. And we were all assaulted by repeats of seeing the planes crash for months on the news.

Also, people were closely affected in New Jersey, New York, Connecticut (where the smoke was visible 90 miles away for months and months), Pennsylvania (where one plane crashed), Maryland/Pentagon, and the surrounding Washington. D.C., area.

This is so very true. Also, we should bear in mind that the trauma and tragedy directly reached far beyond those areas, to entirely innocent families in Afghanistan, Irag and other distant lands, and continues to.

 

[Giltedge]

Here is a somber Plushenko skating to Ode to Joy (Beethoven's Ninth). He went for religious awe and reverence rather than merry and bright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZWkl9UWEA

On the other hand, perhaps awe is more appropriate than merriment. O t J feels more grand and exultant then merry and bright. and Beethoven was by the time of the Ninth profoundly deaf with roaring tinnitus.

 

[Giltedge]

For me, one of the more strikingly gormless commentary comments came from a "Tara", urging that Yuliya Lipnitskaya ought to smile a bit ... during Schindler's List of all places. To make it worse, it transpired that this Tara had once been a figure-skater herself, apparently. Perhaps she hadn't informed herself about Kenneally's book/the film/the history, and assumed it was something about the grocery shopping.

 

[KatGrace1925]

I didn't say that.

A lot of those who criticised her for the program were people who were not even personally affected by 9/11. Just offering a different perspective.

How do you know they weren’t personally effected? I didn’t lose anyone but that day is haunting to me to this day, I was a small child when it happened and the images and sounds on tv as the news played in my house still stay with me. I found the program unsettling because of that.

 

[hanyuufan5]

And as much as I like and admire Medvedeva, seeing a skinny young girl (albeit a beautiful one) in a short dress skating around to those sounds was a bit much.

The skating and the short dress I understand, but what does whether the program was (offensive, tactless, etc.) or not have to do with Medvedeva being skinny, young, or female? Would it have been less (insert negative quality here) if she'd been heavier, older, or male...? :think:

 

[el henry]

Everyone is coping with a trauma in a different way. It's not fair to criticize people just because they have different coping mechanism than we have... The motive behind it surely was not to offend someone, but to tell what can happen in todays world. Ask your self a question - Do we need to stop talking about World War 2? Do we need to stop talking about nuclear bombs? Do we need to stop talking about 9/11? Do we need to stop talking about climate changes? Do we need to stop talking about bad things that happened to anyone individually just because it's too traumatic?... No... and we never should, if we want to learn from the past and build the better future...

I think this is a false equivalency.

No one is saying don’t talk about historical subjects. Spousal unit was chair of the classics department and later a member of the history department at Local Large Private University. I take teaching history very seriously.

Posters were saying (and I agree) that the sound effects in this program were in bad taste and affected some fans negatively. Why would a skater knowingly take a risk like that? I do not blame Zhenya at all, I doubt she said, let me do a program with real people screaming during 9/11. The decision, wherever it was made, to include the sound effects was a bad one.

And yes, everyone copes with trauma in a different way. So not including sound effects for those whom it would traumatize would have been a good decision:thumbsup: and not affected the program in any way. This is skating, not Modern American History 101.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think this is a false equivalency.

No one is saying don’t talk about historical subjects. Spousal unit was chair of the classics department and later a member of the history department at Local Large Private University. I take teaching history very seriously.

Posters were saying (and I agree) that the sound effects in this program were in bad taste and affected some fans negatively. Why would a skater knowingly take a risk like that? I do not blame Zhenya at all, I doubt she said, let me do a program with real people screaming during 9/11. The decision, wherever it was made, to include the sound effects was a bad one.

And yes, everyone copes with trauma in a different way. So not including sound effects for those whom it would traumatize would have been a good decision:thumbsup: and not affected the program in any way. This is skating, not Modern American History 101.

Well, that was Eteri's and Zhenay's way to deal with it... The program is not made because of you, but because of them, and they have a right to say it the way they want it to... That doesn't mean you need to like it, or not to feel negative about it, but that is their story, told from their perspective, and they just wanted to tell it, nothing more. It's about their feelings, not yours... And we are not the people who can judge someone's intimate stories and intimate emotions about their own personal life, that's for sure...

 

[el henry]

Well, that was Eteri's and Zhenay's way to deal with it... The program is not made because of you, but because of them, and they have a right to say it the way they want it to... That doesn't mean you need to like it, or not to feel negative about it, but that is their story, told from their perspective, and they just wanted to tell it, nothing more... And you are not the person who can judge someone's intimate stories and intimate emotions about their own personal life, that's for sure...

I think we are talking past each other, or maybe about different aspects? I’m not saying this in a sarcastic way, but I truly don’t understand

In no way did I judge someone’s personal life, or reaction to 9/11. I was very careful to say I wasn’t. One can criticize the inclusion of sound effects without criticizing other people’s reactions.

But I think we must be talking about different matters here, so I don’t have anything else to say

 

[Amei]

For me, one of the more strikingly gormless commentary comments came from a "Tara", urging that Yuliya Lipnitskaya ought to smile a bit ... during Schindler's List of all places. To make it worse, it transpired that this Tara had once been a figure-skater herself, apparently. Perhaps she hadn't informed herself about Kenneally's book/the film/the history, and assumed it was something about the grocery shopping.

Agree, I think it was during the Olympics team skate that one of the commentators mentioned that the music capitalized on Yulia's serious nature.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think we are talking past each other, or maybe about different aspects? I’m not saying this in a sarcastic way, but I truly don’t understand

In no way did I judge someone’s personal life, or reaction to 9/11. I was very careful to say I wasn’t. One can criticize the inclusion of sound effects without criticizing other people’s reactions.

But I think we must be talking about different matters here, so I don’t have anything else to say

Sound effects are there to remind us what really happened. Yes, it's painfull, but it should be... All those sounds are part of our life, they are not fabricated or imagined by any of us... And i don't see how it is offensive to present something in the most realistic way it is, unless the only motivation we have is to forget about it. There are different ways to deal with things like i said in my first post about it, that has nothing to do with their programme, but only with the way how individuals are subjectifying/or projecting on it...

 

[skylark]

Here is a somber Plushenko skating to Ode to Joy (Beethoven's Ninth). He went for religious awe and reverence rather than merry and bright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZWkl9UWEA

Here's a comment under the video from rubyslipperz1974, written 4 years ago:

The music is as graceful and beautiful, as Evgeni, himself. He looks like a man who fully living in the moment, with the joy he feels for his craft and the enjoyment of being able express it the way he wants to.​

Just substitute the name "Mariah" for the name "Evgeni," and change the pronouns.

 

[el henry]

Sound effects are there to remind us what really happened. Yes, it's painfull, but it should be... All those sounds are part of our life, they are not fabricated or imagined by any of us... And i don't see how it is offensive to present something in the most realistic way it is, unless the only motivation we have is to forget about it. There are different ways to deal with things like i said in my first post about it, that has nothing to do with their programme, but only with the way how individuals are subjectifying/or projecting on it...

Well, I don't know about anyone else's motivation, but I hope you will accept that as a spouse of a classicist/historian, it has nothing to do with "forgetting", and I subjectify or project nothing. I am talking about sound effects in a skating program.

And I have a feeling that we must simply agree to disagree.

 

[noskates]

The skating and the short dress I understand, but what does whether the program was (offensive, tactless, etc.) or not have to do with Medvedeva being skinny, young, or female? Would it have been less (insert negative quality here) if she'd been heavier, older, or male...? :think:

Clearly you missed my point. It wouldn't have mattered WHO was skating around - it just happened to be her!! Figure skating and the death of many people, mass destruction, etc. are not in the same ballpark. That was my point! And I for one do not need sound effects in a figure skating program to remind me of what happened.