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Luckily for everyone, I am not. You wouldn’t want to give someone as corruptible as me any political position anyway.Are you by any chance a carrerr politician?
ISU figure skating streams might be switched to pay-per-view platform
- Thread starter CrazyKittenLady
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- Dec 7, 2022
Not going to get involved in the debate, because I would basically just be repeating what most of you guys have been saying. (i.e. "I'm not paying!"; "the ISU haven't a clue!"; and "the governing of figure skating needs to be split from the governing of speed skating!")
But, I just went to the IFS Magazine's Twittter page after seeing a post in another thread, and I found something interesting. Their most recent post (from 17th February) was a link to the ISU's Annual Survey (didn't even know they had one!)
https://survey.alchemer.eu/s3/90524447/ISU-Fan-Survey-2023-Newsletter
Sorry, but it was only open from 09:00 GMT on 16th February 2023 to 17:00 GMT on 23rd February 2023.
Realising that this latest development was probably related to it, I decided to go through it, out of curiosity.
Sure enough, one of the pages was entitled "Watching Ice Skating". And went as follows:
- "How regularly do you currently watch Ice Skating events live?"
(Please select one option)
- Every competition
- Just highlights
- More than 5 events a season
- Between 2 and 5 events a season
- Less than 2 events a season
- Just the Olympic Games, every 4 years
- Never - Why?
If you picked anything other than "Every competition", "Just the Olympics" or "Never", the following question appeared:
- "Which ISU events do you watch regularly?"
(Select all answers that apply)
- World Cup
- Junior World Cup
- Grand prix
- World Championships
- European Championships
- World Junior Championships
I take it "World Cup" is the Senior GP Series; "Junior World Cup" is the Junior GP Series; and "Grand prix" is the GP Final.
But, imagine an official survey from the sport's governing body not getting the names of the events that are held in their name correct!
The next two questions only appear when you select something other than "Never" for question 1.
- "How do you watch Ice Skating?"
(Select all answers that apply)
- TV
- YouTube
- Recast
- Streaming platform - Please specify
- Other - Please specify
- "Have you heard about the Ice Skating Channel on Recast?"
(Please select one option)
- Yes
- No
The next question was always on the page:
- "Would you like to have access to one destination for all Ice Skating coverage?"
(Please select one option)
- Yes
- No
And this final question appeared if you selected "Yes":
- "Would you be prepared to pay an annual subscription or would you prefer to pay event-by-event?"
(Please select one option)
- Subscription
- Pay per view
Notice also that they did not acknowledge that there are other services that skating gets streamed on, such as DailyMotion or National Federations' own services. It's only YouTube or Recast.
So, it looks like they have been planning this for a while, and decided to use this survey as a means to find out what people thought of it. But, without giving us the option of saying "No, we want it to stay free on YouTube"
CaroLiza_fan
I don't watch speed skating, but I could imagine there are world cups instead of GPs in speed skating?
Of course fans will want it free and of course they want to make money. So far it's clear. What they don't seem to take into account is any kind of long term planning. Short term they will get money for streams that were formerly free. Longer term the interest in the sport will sink further - and since that is already a huge problem, as can be seen e.g. in the attendance of competitions, I would definitely go another way as a federation, but well. They are either very desperate or very greedy.
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F1 is a great example of how even dinosaurs can evolve. They were even less computer savvy than the ISU, but finally realized that having race highlights online isn’t the destruction of the universe.
Remember when the DVD season review was the only way to watch race highlights?
The other major issue, is fragmentation. The new FIS (ski) president is trying to combat this but it’s an uphill battle in a downhill sport. F1, fortunately for them, doesn’t have this issue.
Every ski federation sells their event rights individual. So we get a situation where in the USA, the Austrians sold their right to one entity, the USA sold their rights to a second entity, and the other Europeans sold them to a third entity. AKA a mess.
If there was proper leadership in the ISU, they would summon all their federations and tell them to sit down and come up with a consolidated plan, a consolidated calendar, and a central/stream package.
And sort out the music rights issues beforehand. At worse, just have a few hundred songs the skaters can use without issues.
Ask yourself this question? When is the national championship of most nations? The ISU doesn’t bother to have a worldwide calendar of events. Can’t do something this simple.
The calendars and links the fans have on this very website are a billion times better than what the ISU provides.
How can a fan take any sport seriously when the people running it don’t?
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The short track and speed skating disciplines have events throughout the year, and in the USA they are on NBC’s service.
The Speed Skating world championships took place last weeks. The Short Track World Championships are ongoing this weekend.
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So the WMG (Warner Music Group) has blocked the full event rebroadcasts of the Women's free for the Jr. Worlds.
"Warner Music Group Corp. is an American multinational entertainment and record label conglomerate headquartered in New York City. It is one of the "big three" recording companies and the third-largest in the global music industry, after Universal Music Group and Sony Music Entertainment. Wikipedia"
So a skater used the wrong music and you have to "travel to NL" to watch it.
So how is "recast" gonna handle this in the future? Does it work without a VPN and has anyone seen a rebroadcast of say Synchro or ?
Seems like if you dont need a VPN, then they would get hammered like Peacock and the ISU.
"Warner Music Group Corp. is an American multinational entertainment and record label conglomerate headquartered in New York City. It is one of the "big three" recording companies and the third-largest in the global music industry, after Universal Music Group and Sony Music Entertainment. Wikipedia"
So a skater used the wrong music and you have to "travel to NL" to watch it.
So how is "recast" gonna handle this in the future? Does it work without a VPN and has anyone seen a rebroadcast of say Synchro or ?
Seems like if you dont need a VPN, then they would get hammered like Peacock and the ISU.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
OK, so no VPN?
With Jr. Worlds, WMG was only offended by one lady or so. So the ISU link to performances in desending order or something close to that were still there but NOT ALL OF THEM. I suppose the ISU could have also cut out the offending lady from the entire rebroadcast but then everyone would have know who it was......
It is clear that it took WMG some time to ferret out the offender. Do they have thousands of people in a locked room watching vids or is this all done by bots?
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WMG are being crybabies.
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This is why I download download download (well, that and my packrat genes inherited from a long line of hoarders). It isn't only skating, fanvids all over, youtube reactions and foreign TV shows/series have a nasty habit of disappearing/muting without notice. I have no idea if people will be able to download from the ISU's 'brilliant' new platform, presumably if there are popular enough skaters at the events people will work out and share how to do it.
What saddens me is the not-big name skaters, but the greater number who are successful but not so much that ordinary people/new fans will hunt them out, and the newcomers. When are they going to get a chance to attract attention? And I suspect that most sports that do succeed on pay per view (besides the massive worldwide ones like golf and tennis) are mostly team sports?
What saddens me is the not-big name skaters, but the greater number who are successful but not so much that ordinary people/new fans will hunt them out, and the newcomers. When are they going to get a chance to attract attention? And I suspect that most sports that do succeed on pay per view (besides the massive worldwide ones like golf and tennis) are mostly team sports?
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It was too good to last.
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Have you ever farmed advertisement or hunting stupid surveys most of which you are ineligible for to get so called ‘free’ stuff? Topping up the wallet will be the only viable way.
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At this point, I wouldn't mind a DVD for fs. And I say this as someone who has grown up in the digital age. While DVDs might not be as convenient, once you have them, you have them - always.
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No VPN needed. I just needed to watch enough ads to earn enough credits (75 needed) to use on the event.
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I'd be willing to pay (unless it's too expensive) for accessing figure skating's own video website/YT page, where they'd consolidate all FS content, and store it, never to delete it. GP/JP, WC/JWC, OG/YOG, Challengers, they could arrange deals with various nationals providers and B event stream providers. I'd be willing to pay a monthly/yearly fee to access all that stuff without limits. But if they block some coverages because of music, TV channels' rights/geoblocks, or wipe out all that's older than one year or some such, or if they really wanted fans to pay per minutes, or exchange watching for fake personal info... Then I would absolutely not bother.
Still, the question remains of how to attract new fans. At least some of the videos would need to be available for free on major sites - social media, YT... And even then, some conservative ISU people hardly have an idea of what attracts general audience and what doesn't. Some will be hooked when watching famous FS programs, others might become fans if they accidentally see a video of a not-so-famous skater, but from their own country.
I'd really hate for it to happen a few years from now, that a new fan asks on GS - 'I've heard people talk about Jason's famous Riverdance / Yulia's famous Schndler's List / Yuzuru's famous Seimei / Tessa&Scott's Mahler - where can I watch it?' And the answer would be - 'You can't, you first need to pay ISU, and then you'll be able to see these iconic programs'. Abhorrent thought.
The ISU survey that someone mentioned, it just sounds shady to me. If you're really interested in what the fans think, you ask on social media, major FS forums, you advertise your survey to get as many responses as possible. I'm sorry but this 'survey' sounds like someone kept it quiet so they can have their families and friends answer it, and give just the answers someone out there wished to receive. Or the survey may be unrelated to what's being considered. Who knows.
Still, the question remains of how to attract new fans. At least some of the videos would need to be available for free on major sites - social media, YT... And even then, some conservative ISU people hardly have an idea of what attracts general audience and what doesn't. Some will be hooked when watching famous FS programs, others might become fans if they accidentally see a video of a not-so-famous skater, but from their own country.
I'd really hate for it to happen a few years from now, that a new fan asks on GS - 'I've heard people talk about Jason's famous Riverdance / Yulia's famous Schndler's List / Yuzuru's famous Seimei / Tessa&Scott's Mahler - where can I watch it?' And the answer would be - 'You can't, you first need to pay ISU, and then you'll be able to see these iconic programs'. Abhorrent thought.
The ISU survey that someone mentioned, it just sounds shady to me. If you're really interested in what the fans think, you ask on social media, major FS forums, you advertise your survey to get as many responses as possible. I'm sorry but this 'survey' sounds like someone kept it quiet so they can have their families and friends answer it, and give just the answers someone out there wished to receive. Or the survey may be unrelated to what's being considered. Who knows.
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- Dec 7, 2022
With everything bad you can say about the Russian fed, and there's a lot..., the ISU should really look at what they are doing.
- open broadcasts and streams of pretty much everything
- make a huge show, interesting competition formats outside of the normal competitions
- make good promo and training videos before competitions to raise the hype
- move the competitions mostly to cities where the arenas can be filled
- do thorough interviews with athletes and coaches (that's not on the Russian fed, but for me a big factor how I got into Russian skating)
- invent narratives, stories, rivalries
...
First step is to spread and promote your product. Or, if you don't want to look at Russian fs, look at how business is done in general. You cannot restrict access to your already niche product and raise prices/demand for formerly free services in a time of decline, unless you have a super luxury product which you sell as such. Is watching figure skating such a luxury product? No. And even if it was you would need big celebrity names to promote it.
Free streams and videos on youtube, on social media, in addition to exciting programs (which could be supported more by the ISU) which have the ability to go viral seems a good way if you want to increase viewership and money in the longer run. You need people to talk about it and to spread videos.
Some might not like this show-orientated path, but figure skating is very much show, and while apparently most competitions have problems with getting people into the venues, shows like xy on ice seem to do well in comparison.
(And any sport will profit from narratives and stories. Regarding the Asian skaters one aspect I feel they are failing at is spreading their skaters' stories to the public. I know the skaters from competitions, but I hardly get to know them or their coaches as people (unless it is Lambiel or Orser).)
Overall I think restricting access to viewing is never a good idea for any sport. Popular sports can get away with it, but even for them it remains a problematic step. It's better to increase interest and get more sponsors that pay more, and to sell merchandising.
- open broadcasts and streams of pretty much everything
- make a huge show, interesting competition formats outside of the normal competitions
- make good promo and training videos before competitions to raise the hype
- move the competitions mostly to cities where the arenas can be filled
- do thorough interviews with athletes and coaches (that's not on the Russian fed, but for me a big factor how I got into Russian skating)
- invent narratives, stories, rivalries
...
First step is to spread and promote your product. Or, if you don't want to look at Russian fs, look at how business is done in general. You cannot restrict access to your already niche product and raise prices/demand for formerly free services in a time of decline, unless you have a super luxury product which you sell as such. Is watching figure skating such a luxury product? No. And even if it was you would need big celebrity names to promote it.
Free streams and videos on youtube, on social media, in addition to exciting programs (which could be supported more by the ISU) which have the ability to go viral seems a good way if you want to increase viewership and money in the longer run. You need people to talk about it and to spread videos.
Some might not like this show-orientated path, but figure skating is very much show, and while apparently most competitions have problems with getting people into the venues, shows like xy on ice seem to do well in comparison.
(And any sport will profit from narratives and stories. Regarding the Asian skaters one aspect I feel they are failing at is spreading their skaters' stories to the public. I know the skaters from competitions, but I hardly get to know them or their coaches as people (unless it is Lambiel or Orser).)
Overall I think restricting access to viewing is never a good idea for any sport. Popular sports can get away with it, but even for them it remains a problematic step. It's better to increase interest and get more sponsors that pay more, and to sell merchandising.
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Ok so as of now, the men’s ladies, pairs, and ice dance stays the way it is? Correct?
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Will this change affect our 2023 Senior Worlds viewing at all (i.e. Netherlands VPN for the ISU YouTube Stream)? I'm hoping that if this is going to happen, 2023 Worlds will be as usual and we'll have the whole off-season to decide what to do, figure it out, etc, in time for next season.
What strange timing to make such an announcement. I know nothing about the speed skating season or its schedule, but we're less than a month away from Senior Worlds in figure skating, the biggest event of the year. This strikes me as an announcement more suited to the off-season, rather than so shortly before Worlds. I wonder why they made it right now.
What strange timing to make such an announcement. I know nothing about the speed skating season or its schedule, but we're less than a month away from Senior Worlds in figure skating, the biggest event of the year. This strikes me as an announcement more suited to the off-season, rather than so shortly before Worlds. I wonder why they made it right now.
In Canada, I could watch the whole US Women's Natonals Freeskate on Icenetwork. (The second group was blacked out in the USA).
When NBC SportsGold took over, both the US and Canada got the whole Women's Freeskate.
With Peacock, I can't watch the Women's short program at all in Canada.
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Umm, regarding the Asian skaters, that could be your particular viewpoint based on interest remember. Some of us can hardly tell the top Russian girls apart off the ice because we've hardly got to know them, whereas on Japan the level of print (both newspaper - the coverage of GIFT and Notte Stellata was astonishing - interviews/photo shoot and gorgeous glossy magazine) and TV coverage of the top and/or popular Japanese skaters (and maybe Korean, I don't know) is more than reasonable. Yes, translation gets in the way and yes, Yuzuru overshadows them all which is understandable, but that doesn't mean they don't get their moments to connect with their public.
And restricting access when the number of folk who want access is declining is... well, an interesting marketing ploy, I wonder how they sold it to TPTB? But then again, given that many of the steps you outline do require a fair amount of money, and public interest in the first place...
Will this change affect our 2023 Senior Worlds viewing at all (i.e. Netherlands VPN for the ISU YouTube Stream)? I'm hoping that if this is going to happen, 2023 Worlds will be as usual and we'll have the whole off-season to decide what to do, figure it out, etc, in time for next season.
I don't think so, it's only juniors and synchro at the minute, isn't it?
Exactely. And I think one should also not forget/underestimate all the parents, friends and families of skaters (esp. the younger ones) and the skaters themselves, wanting to link to their perfomances, to show parts of them online when they achieved something they're very proud of.