USFS has broken my heart

[anonymoose_au]

I bet @anonymoose_au has heard of it if not tried it!

I have heard of it, but I don't like soup so have never tried it.

A meat pie should never be soggy in my opinion! That's just wrong!

 

[katymay]

I'd replace "skating" with "USFS".

Even when I was a skater it was U$F$.

 

[icewhite]

How can you blame the IJS system for figure skating's struggles and excuse what the USFS and other feds and responsible people are doing?
I very, very much doubt that is has anything to do with it.
I admit I just watched the Russian senior test skates again - I shouldn't, but I did, and it was great fun and you can see what can be done to make figure skating appeal to an audience. Putting everything else like politics aside - they show how easy it actually is to sell figure skating. And I don't accept "they get all the money from the state", because yes, but the base line is they are actually trying to market and sell their product, to increase viewership, to attract an audience, to improve - not morally, but simply in terms of economics and growing the sport.

Many other traditional sports struggle to keep or grow their audience due to the many alternatives people now have. There are new sports, and especially there are a lot more possibilities for passive entertainment. Everyone complains about the tiktokisation of the new generations.
BUT. I can not imagine a sport more suited to this era and tiktok than figure skating. Honestly, it basically sells itself if you let it. It has music, it has dance, it has short performances of a few minutes, you can even take just a few seconds from a program, spread them per video - but many people in figure skating just refuse all of this because they don't like social media, they don't like current music, they don't like change - per se and in principal.

Of course you can insist that nothing shall change, that everything's good as it is, that you don't need to attract a new audience, and just milk the existing fans as long as they exist. But what a short term thinking that is. That way the sport will die. I'm seeing this in the context of everything else, like organizers expecting you to pay 20 Euro/Dollars for a (shaky) stream (without commentary).
There should be free streaming. Those streams should be broadly promoted, not hidden somewhere so that even knowledgable fans have to search for them in the depth of the internet. The Russians have promo videos for every event and wow, how easy it is - you have a bunch of very attractive young people who know how to pose, how to dance, how to dress well, you show them laughing, having fun with some silly games, being excited because they really want to do well in an upcoming competition. Why is figure skating elsewhere almost unable to do this? Yes, you need a few people who know something about cameras and lighting, but it's not an investment of millions. Those promo videos can be shared over social media. As can be short clips of performances - but you need music that people know, that's trending - not in every performance, but here and there. Like the Wednesday dance Valieva did - and Kimmy Repond did it as well, but much later, when the hype was already dead again. Sure, that's on the skaters and coaches what they choose for an exhibition, but you can also ask a skater to do it for a video that you can then share over social media. And on it goes. I could make a long list of such things to promote the sport.

You want to grow an audience, there are really easy ways for figure skating in this day and age. But apparently most people in figure skating, among them the USFS people, have no interest at all in doing that. Or they are completely incompetent, but my guess is that they aren't interested in the first place. They take the money from the fans that are still willing to pay. More and more people will not pay, will not watch. That will make it impossible to land any bigger contracts with streaming services or get big media to report about the sport. And so the sport becomes smaller and smaller...

 

[katymay]

Where are there so many grouchy old people there? It not just for old people to watch.

Well, to be honest, I was thinking it before they said it. And looking around, thought that figure skating is in trouble as far as growing a younger fan base. Nathan Chen was competing, and you would think that would have been a huge draw-I don't think it was, at least with younger people. Most of the young people there were Japanese, there for Shoma. Without them, I would have pronounced the event DOA. I went only because Trusova was competing, and I've never seen her in person. It was the tail end of Covid though, everyone masked, and that probably added to the stuffiness of the event.

 

[Mathman]

I don't think that there is any real answer or solution to why figure skating has declined in poplularity in the U.S. Cultural drift, changing tastes in entertainment.

People who are put off by judging scandals, and by judged sports in general, will continue to be put off no matter what the scoring system. People who think figure akting is not macho enough to be a real sprt will continue to think so no matter how we advertise the difficulty of the sport in terms of athleticism. People who like glamour and pizzaz have other outlets.

But you never know. Who would have thought that golf would ever be successful as a spectator sport?

 

[moonvine]

How can you blame the IJS system for figure skating's struggles and excuse what the USFS and other feds and responsible people are doing?
I very, very much doubt that is has anything to do with it.
I admit I just watched the Russian senior test skates again - I shouldn't, but I did, and it was great fun and you can see what can be done to make figure skating appeal to an audience. Putting everything else like politics aside - they show how easy it actually is to sell figure skating. And I don't accept "they get all the money from the state", because yes, but the base line is they are actually trying to market and sell their product, to increase viewership, to attract an audience, to improve - not morally, but simply in terms of economics and growing the sport.

Many other traditional sports struggle to keep or grow their audience due to the many alternatives people now have. There are new sports, and especially there are a lot more possibilities for passive entertainment. Everyone complains about the tiktokisation of the new generations.
BUT. I can not imagine a sport more suited to this era and tiktok than figure skating. Honestly, it basically sells itself if you let it. It has music, it has dance, it has short performances of a few minutes, you can even take just a few seconds from a program, spread them per video - but many people in figure skating just refuse all of this because they don't like social media, they don't like current music, they don't like change - per se and in principal.

Of course you can insist that nothing shall change, that everything's good as it is, that you don't need to attract a new audience, and just milk the existing fans as long as they exist. But what a short term thinking that is. That way the sport will die. I'm seeing this in the context of everything else, like organizers expecting you to pay 20 Euro/Dollars for a (shaky) stream (without commentary).
There should be free streaming. Those streams should be broadly promoted, not hidden somewhere so that even knowledgable fans have to search for them in the depth of the internet. The Russians have promo videos for every event and wow, how easy it is - you have a bunch of very attractive young people who know how to pose, how to dance, how to dress well, you show them laughing, having fun with some silly games, being excited because they really want to do well in an upcoming competition. Why is figure skating elsewhere almost unable to do this? Yes, you need a few people who know something about cameras and lighting, but it's not an investment of millions. Those promo videos can be shared over social media. As can be short clips of performances - but you need music that people know, that's trending - not in every performance, but here and there. Like the Wednesday dance Valieva did - and Kimmy Repond did it as well, but much later, when the hype was already dead again. Sure, that's on the skaters and coaches what they choose for an exhibition, but you can also ask a skater to do it for a video that you can then share over social media. And on it goes. I could make a long list of such things to promote the sport.

You want to grow an audience, there are really easy ways for figure skating in this day and age. But apparently most people in figure skating, among them the USFS people, have no interest at all in doing that. Or they are completely incompetent, but my guess is that they aren't interested in the first place. They take the money from the fans that are still willing to pay. More and more people will not pay, will not watch. That will make it impossible to land any bigger contracts with streaming services or get big media to report about the sport. And so the sport becomes smaller and smaller...

May I quote some of this in an email to USFS?

 

[moonvine]

Well, to be honest, I was thinking it before they said it. And looking around, thought that figure skating is in trouble as far as growing a younger fan base. Nathan Chen was competing, and you would think that would have been a huge draw-I don't think it was, at least with younger people. Most of the young people there were Japanese, there for Shoma. Without them, I would have pronounced the event DOA. I went only because Trusova was competing, and I've never seen her in person. It was the tail end of Covid though, everyone masked, and that probably added to the stuffiness of the event.

What country was this in? It’s clear that figure skating is very popular in certain countries and not so much in others.

 

[moonvine]

I don't think that there is any real answer or solution to why figure skating has declined in poplularity in the U.S. Cultural drift, changing tastes in entertainment.

People who are put off by judging scandals, and by judged sports in general, will continue to be put off no matter what the scoring system. People who think figure akting is not macho enough to be a real sprt will continue to think so no matter how we advertise the difficulty of the sport in terms of athleticism. People who like glamour and pizzaz have other outlets.

But you never know. Who would have thought that golf would ever be successful as a spectator sport?

Golf has been successful as a spectator sport since I was a young child. My grandfather used to play and watch golf. I think it’s about as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

[el henry]

USFS has a lot of videos of young people laughing, having fun, etc. Champs Camp was chock full of (not so much past few years) of engaging youthful figure skaters doing silly games and having silly fun, and it was cool to watch. Did Jack Squat to attract new fans to the sport as far as I could tell.

The point isn't creating fun peppy videos with fun peppy kids. It's getting people to watch them.

Where USFS and Skate Canada could take lessons is Elladj Baldé, who has shown he knows how to market skating in North America and beyond.

AND FREE STREAMING WITH REPLAYS. (which will not work in all cases, I admit. I have never in my life watched an internal Russian competition and I am not about to start now. So free doesn't work in all cases. )

 

[surimi]

AND FREE STREAMING WITH REPLAYS. (which will not work in all cases, I admit. I have never in my life watched an internal Russian competition and I am not about to start now. So free doesn't work in all cases. )

I'd say this is pretty much the main problem FS is currently suffering from. There are several great, charismatic skaters from countries like Korea, Italy, France, Canada etc., but right now, the main powerhouses generating skaters that folk (and not just their own) want/travel to see in larger numbers, are Russia and Japan. And their events are not that easy to watch. Many don't feel like watching Russian events for various reasons these days, including me, but a few years ago I did. Back when Ted was commentating on some major event of theirs (Nationals?), the events could be watched for free on YT, and the marketing was spot on. If certain things didn't happen or weren't happening, I bet there'd be way more attention given to Russian competitions, just like it used to be. Then there's the desolation that's Japanese skating and its availability. I wonder if the Japanese Federation and Japanese media can present a bigger rude hand gesture to foreign fans than what they're currently doing. Everything paywalled, monetized, streams and videos taken down, TV channels hardly ever uploading their content on YT, fans uploading next to nothing on YT because they're terrified of Japan's drastic punishments and accounts deletions for copyright violations. I remember happy days, just about 5 or so years ago, when one could watch footages of JNats, watch & read interviews with skaters, watch a TV show featuring Sota -High Five On Ice- freely uploaded on YT, fans would upload fun videos that I think were called MADs... There's none of that anymore. All we have is the JNats thread on GS, and one or two kind souls uploading select individual videos on Google Drives. If international fans cannot watch those many care for, how many fans can FS be expected to recruit?
Coverages are also pitiful in Europe, I guess not much better than the US. Streams and videos get taken down or geoblocked at any time, yet TV broadcasters hardly ever store their competition footages for more than 14 days to 1 month. Long gone are the days of them being okay with their content uploaded by fans on YT (bye bye, fun-sounding Spanish TV lady commentators).
That, IMO, is the #1 issue that's plagueing FS, the other issues don't even come close.

Sorry about hijacking this thread, going to stop now as I know nothing about the US availability of shows/events/coverages from my own experience. I wanted to illustrate it's not just a US issue, but a worldwide one.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Just a simplistic observation from me. Interest in figure skating tends to peak in the countries home to the current stars in women's figure skating. From the 1970s to ~2005 it was the golden era in the US, followed by a huge boom in South Korea and Japan, and then starting 2014 we had the hype in Russia. If you have the best women (or girls nowadays) no additional promo is needed. Men don't do the trick (I consider Yuzu an anomaly here, the exception that proves the rule).
Nathan Chen never did it for the US, and I don't quite believe Malinin will. They need a star in ladies to spark some interest again.

 

[moonvine]

I'd say this is pretty much the main problem FS is currently suffering from. There are several great, charismatic skaters from countries like Korea, Italy, France, Canada etc., but right now, the main powerhouses generating skaters that folk (and not just their own) want/travel to see in larger numbers, are Russia and Japan. And their events are not that easy to watch. Many don't feel like watching Russian events for various reasons these days, including me, but a few years ago I did. Back when Ted was commentating on some major event of theirs (Nationals?), the events could be watched for free on YT, and the marketing was spot on. If certain things didn't happen or weren't happening, I bet there'd be way more attention given to Russian competitions, just like it used to be. Then there's the desolation that's Japanese skating and its availability. I wonder if the Japanese Federation and Japanese media can present a bigger rude hand gesture to foreign fans than what they're currently doing. Everything paywalled, monetized, streams and videos taken down, TV channels hardly ever uploading their content on YT, fans uploading next to nothing on YT because they're terrified of Japan's drastic punishments and accounts deletions for copyright violations. I remember happy days, just about 5 or so years ago, when one could watch footages of JNats, watch & read interviews with skaters, watch a TV show featuring Sota -High Five On Ice- freely uploaded on YT, fans would upload fun videos that I think were called MADs... There's none of that anymore. All we have is the JNats thread on GS, and one or two kind souls uploading select individual videos on Google Drives. If international fans cannot watch those many care for, how many fans can FS be expected to recruit?
Coverages are also pitiful in Europe, I guess not much better than the US. Streams and videos get taken down or geoblocked at any time, yet TV broadcasters hardly ever store their competition footages for more than 14 days to 1 month. Long gone are the days of them being okay with their content uploaded by fans on YT (bye bye, fun-sounding Spanish TV lady commentators).
That, IMO, is the #1 issue that's plagueing FS, the other issues don't even come close.

Sorry about hijacking this thread, going to stop now as I know nothing about the US availability of shows/events/coverages from my own experience. I wanted to illustrate it's not just a US issue, but a worldwide one.

Coverage in Canada is amazing. Everything is streamed live AND archived on Daily Motion. So if you want to watch ACI today, next week or next year. It’s there to be watched.

 

[icewhite]

May I quote some of this in an email to USFS?

Of course you may, everything I write here is free for use.

 

[icewhite]

Just a simplistic observation from me. Interest in figure skating tends to peak in the countries home to the current stars in women's figure skating. From the 1970s to ~2005 it was the golden era in the US, followed by a huge boom in South Korea and Japan, and then starting 2014 we had the hype in Russia. If you have the best women (or girls nowadays) no additional promo is needed. Men don't do the trick (I consider Yuzu an anomaly here, the exception that proves the rule).
Nathan Chen never did it for the US, and I don't quite believe Malinin will. They need a star in ladies to spark some interest again.

I absolutely agree, however I still think there's the position "people don't want to watch figure skating anymore and there's nothing we can do about it (unless we change the scoring system back) and have to get the money where and while we can" or you try to actively market the sport and attract a new audience. And I just don't see honest attempts to do so, instead they do everything they can to get rid of more casual viewers or people with less money who could be multiplicators.

 

[snowflake]

I don't think that there is any real answer or solution to why figure skating has declined in poplularity in the U.S. Cultural drift, changing tastes in entertainment.

People who are put off by judging scandals, and by judged sports in general, will continue to be put off no matter what the scoring system. People who think figure akting is not macho enough to be a real sprt will continue to think so no matter how we advertise the difficulty of the sport in terms of athleticism. People who like glamour and pizzaz have other outlets.

But you never know. Who would have thought that golf would ever be successful as a spectator sport?

Haha but still here we are. Marathon sport, a hundred or more competitors playing 72 holes for four days. I think intriguing broadcasts with captivating commentators is an answer for the success as a TV/stream-sport (though being on site at a big event is the thing). Apart from figure skating many play at the same time and we see different players as the view changes to various holes. Figure skating can be boring even for me watching 30-40 skaters skate in a row and waiting for their scores. Not dynamic.

I love to watch golf when I have time. Exciting to see great shots like hole-in-ones, long shots from fairway sunk, long puts going in, great bunker shots, cool shots from tricky places etc. Following the stars cheering for surprise players.

Looking forward to Solheim cup this weekend: 12 US women against 12 Europeans

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

USFS has a lot of videos of young people laughing, having fun, etc. Champs Camp was chock full of (not so much past few years) of engaging youthful figure skaters doing silly games and having silly fun, and it was cool to watch. Did Jack Squat to attract new fans to the sport as far as I could tell.

The point isn't creating fun peppy videos with fun peppy kids. It's getting people to watch them.

Where USFS and Skate Canada could take lessons is Elladj Baldé, who has shown he knows how to market skating in North America and beyond.

AND FREE STREAMING WITH REPLAYS. (which will not work in all cases, I admit. I have never in my life watched an internal Russian competition and I am not about to start now. So free doesn't work in all cases. )

I agree with you on these points for the most part, but did need to point out that Champs Camp always included these silly fun/games etc for the skaters. Fun Team Building games were included in this.

 

[katymay]

What country was this in? It’s clear that figure skating is very popular in certain countries and not so much in others.

Skate America in Vegas, the Olympic season, so Grand Prix's etc. were filled with top skaters. The two top Russian pairs were there, Trusova, Nathan Chen as well as Alexa/B, and yes, Shoma. Young people in Japan will travel not just for Hanyu, but other Japanese stars like Shoma as well. I wonder though if Canada is also facing a slump in interest.

 

[icewhite]

USFS has a lot of videos of young people laughing, having fun, etc. Champs Camp was chock full of (not so much past few years) of engaging youthful figure skaters doing silly games and having silly fun, and it was cool to watch. Did Jack Squat to attract new fans to the sport as far as I could tell.

The point isn't creating fun peppy videos with fun peppy kids. It's getting people to watch them.

Where USFS and Skate Canada could take lessons is Elladj Baldé, who has shown he knows how to market skating in North America and beyond.

AND FREE STREAMING WITH REPLAYS. (which will not work in all cases, I admit. I have never in my life watched an internal Russian competition and I am not about to start now. So free doesn't work in all cases. )

I have not come across these videos - if they exist, why aren't they distributed accordingly?

 

[Mathman]

Just a simplistic observation from me. Interest in figure skating tends to peak in the countries home to the current stars in women's figure skating. From the 1970s to ~2005 it was the golden era in the US, followed by a huge boom in South Korea and Japan, and then starting 2014 we had the hype in Russia. If you have the best women (or girls nowadays) no additional promo is needed. Men don't do the trick (I consider Yuzu an anomaly here, the exception that proves the rule).
Nathan Chen never did it for the US, and I don't quite believe Malinin will. They need a star in ladies to spark some interest again.

I don't know. I think the perception of women athletes has changed, too. I can't see modern American sports fans going gaga over a Dorothy Hamill wedge cut. The traditional trademarks of the U.S. figure skating star -- perky and cutesy -- I think that we have moved on from what used to sell.

 

[el henry]

I have not come across these videos - if they exist, why aren't they distributed accordingly?

They are in the US. USFS puts them on social media and websites.

People who are not interested enough in the US skaters to go to their social media (that's not a value judgment, just trying to be descriptive) would not see them. I am not interested enough in the Russian women to go to their video channel and thus have never seen any fluff. . (Not saying this as a value judgment, just saying I personally am not interested

Although I think going "viral" can indicate a well made video, or maybe good marketing, it can also just be a fluke, or meaningless. Donovan Carrillo is the most viewed JGP video because of the artist he happened to use (and he's an entertaining skater ). Why did Jason's Riverdance go viral? Great marketing? Or a skate that made people feel good?

So although I think it's great when it happens, most times IMO it is serendipity and not some great marketing skill.


Some fluff posted by USFS in the past:







These are just the ones I found first, one I remember with great fondness (although this may have been a comp and not Champs Camp/other fluff) skaters meet rescue puppies. You can imagine how adorable that was.