How do you think the ladies would have been scored under 6.0?

[jenaj]

Assuming that the the ISU had kept the 6.0 system but gotten rid of corrupt judges like the Ukrainian judge and judges with conflicts of interest, how do you think the Sochi ladies event would have come out? I think the top three would have been the same after the short program, with Yuna in 1st (5.9/5.9), Carolina in 2nd (5.8/5.9) and Adelina in 3rd (5.8/5.8 ). I don't think Mao would be as low as 16th, but I think she would be out of medal contention. The top three would then, in the words of Terry Gannon, control their own destiny.

This is where it gets difficult. Would the judges give Mao any 6.0s for tech, even though she would be skating early and out of medal contention? I think she would have to get a majority of 5.9s for tech, at least. I think she also deserves 5.9s for presentation, but am not sure she would get them, skating early. But it is all kind of a moot point because she would have no chance at a medal.

For the medal contenders, I think it would be very close between Yuna and Carolina. I think it probably would be the same as the short program: Yuna 5.9/5.9 and Carolina 5.8/5.9. Adelina would get 5.8/5.8 or maybe even 5.8/5.7. Six triples vs seven didn't necessarily matter under 6.0, nor did the skater who did a triple-triple always place over the one that did. As for Mao, could she win the free skate under this scenario? If not, where would she place in the free?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Yuna didn't win.

 

[Karpenko]

I would've ranked them:

1. Mao Asada - 6.0/5.9
2. Carolina Kostner - 5.8/6.0
3. Yuna Kim - 5.9/5.9
4. Adelina Sotnikova - 5.8/5.8 (5.9 in Russia is passable though, just no higher than a 4th ordinal)
5. Ashley Wagner - 5.6/5.8
6. Gracie Gold - 5.7/5.7
7. Julia Lipnitskaya - 5.6/5.7

 

[pangtongfan]

Short programs:

1. Yu Na 5.9, 5.9
2. Kostner 5.8, 5.9
3. Sotnikova 5.7, 5.6


Long programs:

1. Yu Na 5.9, 5.9
2. Kostner 5.8, 5.9
3. Asada 5.9, 5.8 (or she might get even lower just due to start order)
4. Sotnikova 5.7, 5.7

 

[slutskayafann]

What I hate about the 6 system is Judges ranking, which leads to change in positions regardless of what skaters actually did in their programs!
It was a strange, a very strange scoring system!! Somehow the same skater was ranked 2 and 5 or even 7 for the same program!

 

[desertskates]

I would've ranked them:

1. Mao Asada - 6.0/5.9
2. Carolina Kostner - 5.8/6.0
3. Yuna Kim - 5.9/5.9
4. Adelina Sotnikova - 5.8/5.8 (5.9 in Russia is passable though, just no higher than a 4th ordinal)
5. Ashley Wagner - 5.6/5.8
6. Gracie Gold - 5.7/5.7
7. Julia Lipnitskaya - 5.6/5.7

I'd have done the same. :agree:

 

[prettykeys]

In 6.0 my understanding is that:
- judges had to leave room for later skaters;
- technically, what mattered most was triple jumps

So...

SP:
YuNa would get 5.9/5.8 (clean jumps, hard 3-3, but she was very, very nervous. Beautiful, but not lights-out skate. Plus, have to leave room. Carolina Kostner, Mao Asada, and the rising Julia were coming up.)
Carolina would get 5.8/5.9 (it seems most people received her SP more favourably, presentation-wise. Maybe they would give her 5.9/5.9 as well, even though 3F-3T is somewhat easier than 3Lz-3T)
Adelina should get 5.8/5.7 (she did an easier triple-triple from the others but she did do harder spins.)

Thus 1) Carolina 2) YuNa 3) Adelina after the Short.

LP:
Carolina would get 5.8/5.8 (have to leave room, but she did do 7 triples. Engaged presentation, albeit somewhat empty choreography)
Adelina would get 5.8/5.7 (yes she did do a 3-3 but she did stumble on the double jumps; she also flutzed and maybe borderline underrotated the -3T in her 3-3. Presentation less quality than Carolina's)
YuNa would get 5.8/5.9 (only 6 triples but a difficult 3-3 puts her on the same as the above girls. Skating last and with poise and finesse, I think the judges would give the Long to her.)

Thus, combined with the Short, 1) YuNa 2) Carolina 3) Adelina if judges were being fair.

But that outcome could have happened if Sochi judges (AND TECH PANEL) were fair, too.

Mao Asada would be out of medal contention after her Short. I'd judge her LP under 6.0 as 6.0/5.8

 

[gmyers]

Sotnikova- gold
Lipnitskaia - silver
Gold- bronze

 

[jenaj]

Sotnikova- gold
Lipnitskaia - silver
Gold- bronze

But the premise of the question was that the Ukrainian judge would not be on the panel or any judges with conflicts of interest. Is your answer still the same? Or are you just being cynical?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Maybe he/she is a Russian/Ukrainian judge

I would imagine even going into the games that a Ukranian judge would not vote highly of the Russian skaters. I guess that's the problem with speculation and circumstantial evidence. You never know for sure what is truth.

 

[Olympia]

Sotnikova- gold
Lipnitskaia - silver
Gold- bronze

In 6.0, wouldn't a fall be penalized more severely than in CoP? So how would Lipnitskaia end up with the silver?

 

[wootie]

Well, I think it's hard to imagine a judging panel in Russia that didn't have corrupt judges. Even if the 6.0 system was reinstated, had the games been in Russia, the judging would have been somewhat corrupt no matter what. It's impossible to separate the two from one another (sadly). So...Adelina would have gotten whole bunch of 6.0s for both Technical and Artistic components and been crowned the winner no matter what. Yuna and Carolina would have had mostly 5.8s and a few 5.9s.

 

[cooper]

I would imagine even going into the games that a Ukranian judge would not vote highly of the Russian skaters. I guess that's the problem with speculation and circumstantial evidence. You never know for sure what is truth.

the problem is... they still put him there!!! it's just the lack of transparency and accountability within the ISU.. but then again what else is new??

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

the problem is... they still put him there!!! it's just the lack of transparency and accountability within the ISU.. but then again what else is new??

That is why I focus on the skating. No matter the scoring system or judging shenanigans the skating remains the same. I'm sorry but I just don't put much merit in the result as much as the skating. Maybe that's cheesy but that is how I feel about it. It's one of the many reasons I look up to Yuna and Yulia. They are on record making these types of statements time and time again.

 

[Mafke]

That is why I focus on the skating. No matter the scoring system or judging shenanigans the skating remains the same. I'm sorry but I just don't put much merit in the result as much as the skating. Maybe that's cheesy but that is how I feel about it. It's one of the many reasons I look up to Yuna and Yulia. They are on record making these types of statements time and time again.

Yes. The ISU has basically discredited itself. The performance I'll want to see again and again is Asada any judging system that doesn't have that skate in the top 2 is inherently and fatally flawed.

 

[jenaj]

the problem is... they still put him there!!! it's just the lack of transparency and accountability within the ISU.. but then again what else is new??

And the problem with the Ukrainian judge wasn't where he was from; it was that he was caught cheating in 1998. Every other sport would have banned him for life!

 

[Olympia]

That is why I focus on the skating. No matter the scoring system or judging shenanigans the skating remains the same. I'm sorry but I just don't put much merit in the result as much as the skating. Maybe that's cheesy but that is how I feel about it. It's one of the many reasons I look up to Yuna and Yulia. They are on record making these types of statements time and time again.

I side with you. No matter what the judges do, we still get to see the skating. Does a skater move me? Do I get gooseflesh? One of my favorite skaters in the 1994 Olympics was Yuka Sato. She popped a jump and was out of the running, but she was still the most impressive skater to me. This time, I was moved to tears by Mao, and at that point I didn't care if they put members of the Russian audience ahead of her in the rankings, she was the best to me. I'm not an expert viewer by any means, but on the other hand, I'm answerable only to myself for my choices and reactions.

 

[louisa05]

What I hate about the 6 system is Judges ranking, which leads to change in positions regardless of what skaters actually did in their programs!
It was a strange, a very strange scoring system!! Somehow the same skater was ranked 2 and 5 or even 7 for the same program!

I used to judge competitive speech which in my state uses a ranking system for judging. It actually is not that confusing if you are used to working with it. What I found, both as a judge and a coach, is that it was when you were dealing with the best of the best that there would be a big inconsistency between judges' rankings. I think that is also why we saw it with the top skaters at elite senior events. If you looked at all the rankings, you'd probably find the same two or three performers at the very bottom in all the judges' rankings but not so much at the top. When everyone is extremely good, then judges' personal preferences become a deciding factor and placements are inconsistent. But bad is usually just bad.

 

[jenaj]

I used to judge competitive speech which in my state uses a ranking system for judging. It actually is not that confusing if you are used to working with it. What I found, both as a judge and a coach, is that it was when you were dealing with the best of the best that there would be a big inconsistency between judges' rankings. I think that is also why we saw it with the top skaters at elite senior events. If you looked at all the rankings, you'd probably find the same two or three performers at the very bottom in all the judges' rankings but not so much at the top. When everyone is extremely good, then judges' personal preferences become a deciding factor and placements are inconsistent. But bad is usually just bad.

I read an interview with a current figure skating judge (it might have been posted here, I don't remember) who said that judges still rank skaters on PCS (and, I think, probably on GOE, too). He said he tries to remember what he gave each skater so if a later skater does better, he can give her/him a higher mark. I know it's not supposed to be like this, but it still is.

 

[louisa05]

I read an interview with a current figure skating judge (it might have been posted here, I don't remember) who said that judges still rank skaters on PCS (and, I think, probably on GOE, too). He said he tries to remember what he gave each skater so if a later skater does better, he can give her/him a higher mark. I know it's not supposed to be like this, but it still is.

I'm sure they do. In many ways, it makes the whole act of judging more manageable.

When I judged and coached speech, students competed in small rounds of 6-8 performers. Rankings were then added to determine who went to a final round of six. It is not too difficult to rank that small of a group. When I judged play production once, there were ten shows and that was a bit overwhelming. Ranking 24-30 performances as skating judges did and really retaining where they belong would be very difficult. I think that is why you saw the later skaters do better--not even that they were holding marks but that they sometimes didn't remember the details of every early performance. It seems like a seeded order was more necessary in the short programs in the 6.0 system than it is now.