Netflix 'Losers' series features Surya Bonaly

Netflix has a new show called LOSERS. It's about sports figures who never quite made it to the top in competition. It's told through interviews with various people, clips from old broadcasts, and animations. Although it's called LOSERS, the show is inspiring.

Episode 3 is about Surya Bonaly. It's called Judgement.

The entire series just dropped yesterday. You can watch that episode here if you have netflix: https://www.netflix.com/watch/80198252

The title is turn off for me. Can someone else watch it and give more details?

Everything I write here is my opinion only. Feel free to disagree.
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I watched it and overall felt that it was a rare (and late) opportunity for Surya to air her side of the story. I was too young during Surya’s heyday to understand the drama and scandal surrounding her other than the general awareness that she was a black skater which I had never seen before. This episode gave me a greater understanding why she did what she did and the frustration she must’ve felt from feeling boxed in and the growing realization that she was powerless against the way others (i.e. the judges) perceived her (although in the beginning, she probably thought her talent would speak for itself and she’d be rewarded justly).

They gave some background to how her parents came to adopt her (including the story behind her name) and Surya’s general talent in athletics (didn’t know she was a silver medalist in gymnastics!) as well as a quick nod to the tough years when Surya and her parents moved to Paris from Nice when they basically lived out of a van before she found success on the ice.

As a person of color, I empathized greatly with Surya’s struggle to overcome prejudice and earn her rightful place on the podium. The Netflix episode dealt very briefly with issues that I wish they had dived into further such as her early years of success and how she was generally perceived in France and the world at that time (“coded language” by commentators and journalists) but I was glad to hear some fellow skaters (Scott Hamilton, Tara lipinski) weigh in about some of the injustices they thought Surya received.

One thing I took away from this was a growing realization in general with our sport... a realization? No, maybe more of a discomfort. It’s an unacknowledged truth that figure skating rewards cookie cutter skaters who fit a precedented aesthetic that hit the expected moves at the expected time, all within the lines and rules we know a program should follow. Figure skating is NOT about pushing the envelope despite the growing level difficulty in technical content (triple-triples and quads) in the last two decades. Figure skating wants to push the limits but only so far within drawn boundaries. I felt bad for Surya in the end but happy to see that she is still working within skating world and committed to helping other black skaters grow in this sport.

(I completely ignored mentioning Surya’s mother... that part was weird for me)

I guess you have to subscribe to Netflix to view this, right?

I agree that the attempt at a catchy title for the series failed -- it just makes the viewer angry going in.

I have a very distinct memory of watching (on TV) the 1994 World Championships where sweet-edges Yuka Sato got first place over Surya. We were on some kind of vacation retreat at a rustic resort that had an American Indian theme. A big argument broke out among the guests over the the history of the treatment of Native Americans in the U.S. (my wife leading the charge ). So we decided that we all needed to cool off by watching some soothing figure skating together.

Well, that just started it all up again. I was afraid that my sweetie was going to hit somebody over the outcome.

Here is my favorite Surya Bonaly story. Working as a full-time professional skater out of Los Angeles, she was in demand for shows and pro-ams. There was an Improv event (I think in Sun Valley?) and somebody cancelled. So they got on the horn to Surya, she stuffed a bunch of costumes in a suitcase and jumped on the red eye. In the event, she happened to draw a country and western song. As luck would have it (or maybe ut was all planned -- even back then there was no reality in reality TV) she had brought along a cowboy outfit and she skated up a storm. (I hope I am remembering the details right.)

I also remember back when they had pro "competitions" advertised as some variation of "USA versus the World." USA always won no matter how anyone actually skated. But one time "the World" was led by Surya and Philippe Candeloro, who both knocked it out of the park. The (U.S.) audience was going to rebel if the World didn't win, and the judges had to go along.

Mathman said:

I guess you have to subscribe to Netflix to view this, right?

I agree that the attempt at a catchy title for the series failed -- it just makes the viewer angry going in.

I have a very distinct memory of watching (on TV) the 1994 World Championships where sweet-edges Yuka Sato got first place over Surya. We were on some kind of vacation retreat at a rustic resort that had an American Indian theme. A big argument broke out among the guests over the the history of the treatment of Native Americans in the U.S. (my wife leading the charge ). So we decided that we all needed to cool off by watching some soothing figure skating together.

Well, that just started it all up again. I was afraid that my sweetie was going to hit somebody over the outcome.

Here is my favorite Surya Bonaly story. Working as a full-time professional skater out of Los Angeles, she was in demand for shows and pro-ams. There was an Improv event (I think in Sun Valley?) and somebody cancelled. So they got on the horn to Surya, she stuffed a bunch of costumes in a suitcase and jumped on the red eye. In the event, she happened to draw a country and western song. As luck would have it (or maybe ut was all planned -- even back then there was no reality in reality TV) she had brought along a cowboy outfit and she skated up a storm. (I hope I am remembering the details right.)

I also remember back when they had pro "competitions" advertised as some variation of "USA versus the World." USA always won no matter how anyone actually skated. But one time "the World" was led by Surya and Philippe Candeloro, who both knocked it out of the park. The (U.S.) audience was going to rebel if the World didn't win, and the judges had to go along.

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Again, that narrative in the late 80s and 90s had to boil down to judging and preferences. It was completely US centric then and the packaging was important. Powerful non princessy skaters like Midori Ito and Tonya Harding and later on Irina Slutskaya had to have such difficult tech in order to have a shot against their more classically packaged rival. However for Surya, the confusion was that she was loved by the audience and some judges and the 6.0 system simply didn’t have the level of granularity to inform her where she needed to work on. I actually do think Yuma Sato deserved the win in 94 while Surya deserved the win in 93 instead. If she had been judged under current IJS rules, she would have gotten good jumps and spins GOEs but will be repeatedly docked in SS and TR. It’s obvious she couldn’t really skate or use the edges in between elements.

I watched this episode last night. Parts were very interesting, in that I learned more about her background, both personal and how she rose in the skating world.

I thought the episode spent too much time implying (some people outright stating) that she never won because she was/is a black skater, and skating is a white-girl sport.

Nonsense. Even by the time she was skating, other non-white women... Thomas, Yamaguchi, Ito, Chen... just to name a few, had done incredibly well. Surya herself won numerous European titles and even more French titles.

Surya never won a WC because, in the end at those competitions, someone was always better than her overall. Remember that most of her career was spent in the era of school figures, which could doom medal chances of talented free skaters.

Additionally, and granted this is just my opinion, she wasn't very good at the essence of figure skating, which is gliding across the ice.

Watched the episode tonight and tbh, her jumps looked awful! However, she did have the hottest costumes!

I can't watch this, as I don't have Netflix, but was around for the entirety of Surya's career. As others have said, she certainly wasn't the first black skater to reach a high level in FS, with Debi Thomas around at the same time. If Surya competed today, her PCS would be very low. Before she began Skating, she did Tumbling (not Artistic Gymnastics) which was a series of skills down a runway, not sure if the sport is still going. Her basic skating skills were poor, and other skaters commented on this regularly. It wasn't because of her colour. She won Europeans many times on the strength of her jumps, so she wasn't discriminated against by the Skating Establishment. She did the backflip in Galas, and had a charm, and sweet nature which was appealing to audiences. At the 1992 Albertville Olympics, the French Fed packaged her in a way that wasn't really her. Her SP was to Zorba the Greek, and her costumes were designed by Christian Lacroix. It wasn't the Surya we knew and loved and she didn't look 100% happy or comfortable TBH.

In the famous incident at Worlds 1994 where she refused to stand on the podium after Yuka Sato beat her, her behaviour was very unbecoming, and unfair and rude to Yuka, who behaved in a totally dignified way throughout Surya's protest. The result wasn't disputed by any commentator on Eurosport or BBC. I also never heard any commentator on either of those channels refer to Surya in a prejudiced way - ever. Eurosport felt disappointment for her, as she so desperately wanted to win the WC, but said she'd let herself down by her behaviour.

As I say, I haven't seen this docu, but am writing after reading the review above. I also have seen various comments on Twitter over the years from people of colour who think Surya was a victim of racial discrimination, though they weren't around at the time. Some even mistakenly claim she was the first skater to do the backflip! There is a lot of unfair condemnation of Skating - we had it with the I,Tonya film - but whilst it is guilty of a lot of things, I don't think racial prejudice against Surya Bonaly is one.

I haven’t watched the episode but I will eventually.

Anyway, I hate the narrative that Surya never won because of racism. It’s true that she faced a lot of racism, coded language, etc. And this is probably still true for black skaters. But she also was pretty terrible at actual skating. Like, uniquely terrible at it.

I hope the show acknowledges that because not doing so presents a skewed vision of the sport to general audiences.

TontoK said:

I thought the episode spent too much time implying (some people outright stating) that she never won because she was/is a black skater, and skating is a white-girl sport.

Nonsense. Even by the time she was skating, other non-white women... Thomas, Yamaguchi, Ito, Chen... just to name a few, had done incredibly well. Surya herself won numerous European titles and even more French titles.

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I think a key point that was made in the episode was how the judges just cannot agree on what constitutes excellent skating. The fact that there were so much controversy and deliberation time for scores and how scoring has changed over time and how audiences do not always agree with judges... it just all points to these varying perspectives.

A while ago I heard a presentation from a high level figure skating judge and one of the things he mentioned was how much he absolutely hated popped jumps. He said they showed a lack of commitment and he always wanted to strongly penalized popped jumps - how much he could do that depended on the current judging standards but he was very open about his desire to maximize the penalty.

Well, I don't know how much you have to know about skating to know that popped jumps are essentially a skater's self-preservation method. The jump is going wrong and it's either getting popped or it's going to be a fall. This judge was basically saying he prefers falls. I think that's got to be a just a personal preference. Some people prefer a nice skate with no falls and others prefer to watch skaters take risks.

If you think it doesn't matter that she was Black just because the were some other non-white skaters who did well... to me that says you should educate yourself a bit more on racism. For starters, there are plenty of people who are racist against certain races and not all non-whites. There are also plenty of people who have implicit biases against certain races and do not intend to be racist. (Take a race or skin color test to see how you do: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html ) You may also want to google the term 'colorism' to learn more.

Also, it's possible to believe that racism was a factor that played a role in Surya's career without thinking it was the only factor. Pointing out the fact that racism exists and how it rears it's ugly head is not excusing other things.

La Rhumba said:

Some even mistakenly claim she was the first skater to do the backflip!.

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I think she may have been the first skater to do a backflip and land on one foot (as well as being the first lady). As I recall, the ISU's official position was initially was that backflips don't count as real figure skating because you don't land on an edge. Later Surya added a triple Salchow in combination.

Surya is a freaking queen and no amount of wins or losses will change that. She should have won Worlds her first time around - I don't blame racism - her core skating was pretty bad but her knack for theatrics, music, HAIR and performance was a force to be reckoned with. I don't care if she lacked amazing skating skills (so much so that the ISU put her as a "weak" example) - she never bored me and was a huge role model in skating for me. Her backflip directly into 3S is one of the hardest maneuvers in the world of sport, IMO.

TontoK said:

I thought the episode spent too much time implying (some people outright stating) that she never won because she was/is a black skater, and skating is a white-girl sport.

Nonsense.

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I think there is more to be said, though. We can all agree on where, as a society, we ought to be going. But I don't think we can get there without understanding where we have been. The whole history of racism in sports in the U.S. does cast a shadow on our perceptions, even as we struggle to move forward.

When heavyweight boxing champ Jack Johnson defeated the Great White Hope in 1910 there were riots all over the country resulting in at least 20 deaths. Not until 1947 did we agree (some people did, anyway) that black athletes should be allowed to play baseball in the big leagues. But Jackie Robinson rarely got the benefit of a close call.

This is a backdrop that colors people's reactions even today. Yes, Kristi Yamaguchi was the toast of the town in 1992 -- was it because Japanese ladies in general are perceived in the u.S. to be delicate little flowers of the type that are much prized in figure skating, race aside? On the other hand, there was quite a bit of speculation at the time that Yamaguchi was not able to cash in on her Olympic gold medal to the same extent as, say, Dorothy Hamill, because Yamaguchi did not fit U.S. advertisers' preferred profile.

Anyway, good on figure skating for doing it's part as we journey on.

(That's what I think, anyway.)

To be fair her skating skills were pretty bad. I cant think of any Worlds medalist with skating skills as bad as her.

I’m still stuck on the name of this series.

We do subscribe to Netflix, I’m obviously interested in skating, and I doubt I’ll watch it.

“Losers”??? :eeking: Is that supposed to be clickbait for us in the streaming crowd?

I guess I’ve been a Philadelphia sports fan too long.

icybear said:

To be fair her skating skills were pretty bad. I cant think of any Worlds medalist with skating skills as bad as her.

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She wasn't that bad. She beat Oksana Baiul at 1993 Europeans (the year Oksana won Worlds) and at 1994 Europeans (the year Oksana won the Olympics).

Mathman said:

She wasn't that bad. She beat Oksana Baiul at 1993 Europeans (the year Oksana won Worlds) and at 1994 Europeans (the year Oksana won the Olympics).

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Oh trust me, where basic SS was concerned, Surya was really bad. There is no edges. She is a good theatrical performer, full of excitement and character no doubt but oh boy, she really couldn’t skate. Just because she bested Baiul.... well she had other strengths but let’s just call bad SS as just bad.

VegMom said:

I think a key point that was made in the episode was how the judges just cannot agree on what constitutes excellent skating. The fact that there were so much controversy and deliberation time for scores and how scoring has changed over time and how audiences do not always agree with judges... it just all points to these varying perspectives.

A while ago I heard a presentation from a high level figure skating judge and one of the things he mentioned was how much he absolutely hated popped jumps. He said they showed a lack of commitment and he always wanted to strongly penalized popped jumps - how much he could do that depended on the current judging standards but he was very open about his desire to maximize the penalty.

Well, I don't know how much you have to know about skating to know that popped jumps are essentially a skater's self-preservation method. The jump is going wrong and it's either getting popped or it's going to be a fall. This judge was basically saying he prefers falls. I think that's got to be a just a personal preference. Some people prefer a nice skate with no falls and others prefer to watch skaters take risks.

If you think it doesn't matter that she was Black just because the were some other non-white skaters who did well... to me that says you should educate yourself a bit more on racism. For starters, there are plenty of people who are racist against certain races and not all non-whites. There are also plenty of people who have implicit biases against certain races and do not intend to be racist. (Take a race or skin color test to see how you do: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html ) You may also want to google the term 'colorism' to learn more.

Also, it's possible to believe that racism was a factor that played a role in Surya's career without thinking it was the only factor. Pointing out the fact that racism exists and how it rears it's ugly head is not excusing other things.

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I strive to be open to new points of view, and I'm certainly willing to revisit my positions.

So, which major championship do you think that Surya should have won, but did not?

TontoK said:

I strive to be open to new points of view, and I'm certainly willing to revisit my positions.

So, which major championship do you think that Surya should have won, but did not?

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I don’t think that’s really a fair question. Perhaps a different point of view on Surya’s skating wouldn’t have changed her overall placement or perhaps it would of made her a three world champion, we can’t say. What we can say is that Surya certainly felt that she was placed at a disadvantage by her race and her more athletic style of skating.

I certainly feel that skating does have a not all too positive relationship with black skaters going by some of the things I’ve heard said about the few black skaters competing today but perhaps I’m too sensitive. I tend to dwel on these things a little more as I’m black myself.

(I hope to watch the program soon.)

I loved Surya back in her era. She never bored me. She was one of the greatest performers ever, which really shone in her loooong professional career. She was doing her backflips to late 30s.

She looked very athletic, especially compared to skaters of today... and her costumes and her programs fit with that.