Jeez. Disaster. He's been so consistent too. I guess he was due a meltdown.
2015 Four Continents Men's Short Program Feb 12 Seoul Time
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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Bigger event, tougher competition, nerves got to him? I hope he'll redeem himself in the free.
Shoma, on the other hand seems to have the nerves of steel. Or perhaps he didn't feel as much pressure to get to the podium as others and therefore was able to turn in a cleaner skate. In any case, hopefully he will remain consistently good so that the big guns will fell him breathing down their necks. No Javi and Yuzuru, you can't make mistakes or Shoma will take your medals from you!
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- Feb 24, 2012
Some general comments. Nice work by D10. My main criticism of him is that he is a splendid skater but I don't think he is overly special compared to Hanyu, Chan or even charismatic Fernandez. He seems to luck out at the big events; I would prefer to see some consistency. Happy for Josh but I do think Jason will come back in the long program. I am not sure really if the quad toe is really something Jason should be trying right now; he doesn't seem to really have it and has enough issues with the triple axel. It is interesting how Farris seems to have picked up Abbott's pcs. Yet I do think Adam is the better pc skater. Sad about Nam but those other two Canadians don't have a lot of content. Actually both Liam and Jeremy are wonderful skaters and should score higher pc wise but they struggle with their jumps. Nam can still come back and beat them only because in Canada the singles skaters are so weak right now. It will be interesting to see the end results. somehow you know one of the top 3 will probably have a melt down. And Jason, Adam, Josh, Yan or a big move by Nguyen are all possible.
There's quite a lot of consistency to his incosistency, though. It seems more like peaking at the right time rather than lucking out, actually.
And er, I really have to disagree about "not overly special". That SP was plenty special, and I'm saying it as a great Hanyu fan. (And then there's my casual-watcher mother's request after Olys: make me the compilation of the best performances and don't forget to put up the guy from Kazakhstan first!
)
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Déjà vu?
This time you missed to include Dakahashi in your comparison list and added Fernandez instead.
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For me Brandon Kerry was such a surprise specially compared to his Sochi performance. I seriously didn't expect him to throw that quad. :shocked:
On the other hand, I also didn't expect him to have the personality that he has in K&C. One has to wonder how people close to him figure what mood he is in considering he likes to joke a lot and how his expressions change so quickly within the 5 secs that I saw.
Please excuse me while I smug a little. One of the reasons I was so shattered about what happened to him in Sochi was because I knew he was capable of this. I like it when Team Australia makes good surprises.
As to his personality - if you ever get to see him live, it's a treat, especially in an informal setting. He's very polite. All of our men are super-expressive.
4S in the LP, and I do hope he brings the gorgeous 3A-3T(rippon) combo.
That's what I noticed too. Unless it was just an angled fall, I really felt it would have been better if he hadn't gone for what looks like an attempted tano lutz.hwell:
I'm about 90% sure it wasn't a tano Lutz. If you look at the slo-mo replay on his feet, just as he picks in he slips a little and the heel of his left blade goes into the ice, which makes it all go pear-shaped, and his arms flail a bit.
*
Watched Jason's LP for the first time just now.
*sigh*
It wasn't even close. You couldn't even give it just an UR on a nice day.
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- Mar 23, 2014
Starting to catch up on all of the top men's SPs aside from Josh's (which I obviously loved since he's my number one).
Denis is stunning. Simply stunning. The footwork is powerful and flawless, the triple axel was HUGE, and somehow he made that music that would overpower literally any other skater totally work for him. I'd love to see another brilliant performance from him in the long.
This is the first time I've taken the time to watch Shoma skate. Usually I'm more into the ladies, but this year the men's comps are way more interesting and unpredictable. He skates with a ton of speed and power--I forgot how young he was until he finished skating and I saw his adorable smile. This kid has got an amazing future.
Han Yan's music was a ton of fun, but I'd prefer it without the lyrics. And watching him skate right after Shoma and Denis (I'm obviously not watching them in the order in which they skated) made me notice his lack of polish.
Not a huge fan of Mura, unfortunately.
Go Misha!! He has the ease, elegance, and flow to his skating that I love about Josh. I don't care for that costume though....
It's a shame about Jason's mistakes, but he did a decent job not letting them ruin the performance aspect of his skating. Seeing the quad attempt in a competition where there's nothing to lose was great, even if it didn't work out. He finished WAY too long after the music though. It was distracting. I remember he had a similar issue at Nationals, but the time he finished after the music here was noticeably longer.
I'm really hoping for a bronze for Josh and a gold for Denis after the FS. Given their inconsistencies, I'm going to be a nervous wreck. Not sure if I should wake up super early (or stay up super late) to watch the FS or just check the results Saturday morning...
Denis is stunning. Simply stunning. The footwork is powerful and flawless, the triple axel was HUGE, and somehow he made that music that would overpower literally any other skater totally work for him. I'd love to see another brilliant performance from him in the long.
This is the first time I've taken the time to watch Shoma skate. Usually I'm more into the ladies, but this year the men's comps are way more interesting and unpredictable. He skates with a ton of speed and power--I forgot how young he was until he finished skating and I saw his adorable smile. This kid has got an amazing future.
Han Yan's music was a ton of fun, but I'd prefer it without the lyrics. And watching him skate right after Shoma and Denis (I'm obviously not watching them in the order in which they skated) made me notice his lack of polish.
Not a huge fan of Mura, unfortunately.
Go Misha!! He has the ease, elegance, and flow to his skating that I love about Josh. I don't care for that costume though....
It's a shame about Jason's mistakes, but he did a decent job not letting them ruin the performance aspect of his skating. Seeing the quad attempt in a competition where there's nothing to lose was great, even if it didn't work out. He finished WAY too long after the music though. It was distracting. I remember he had a similar issue at Nationals, but the time he finished after the music here was noticeably longer.
I'm really hoping for a bronze for Josh and a gold for Denis after the FS. Given their inconsistencies, I'm going to be a nervous wreck. Not sure if I should wake up super early (or stay up super late) to watch the FS or just check the results Saturday morning...
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I'll have to check Saturday morning cause I'm going to be busy that day.
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Denis Ten is really magic when he lands his jumps. Sometimes I think I could fall in love with him for a moment just because the way he interprets a program, though a stocky and relatively short man is not the usual crush for a lady: Being an ethnic Korean might have helped him a little here; same as Misha Ge, since his Dad is Korean Chinese. I bet his Dad is fluent in Korean.
: Being an ethnic Korean might have helped him a little here; same as Misha Ge, since his Dad is Korean Chinese. I bet his Dad is fluent in Korean.
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Was great to see Josh skate a clean SP. He had a little more fire at Nationals but this should have placed 2nd here. The young Japanese guy did a very good job but was overmarked; all of his jumps deserved 0 GOE. Stilted landings, not a ton of height, and a bit wonky in the air. He's able to land like a cat but they aren't very good looking.
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There's quite a lot of consistency to his incosistency, though. It seems more like peaking at the right time rather than lucking out, actually.
And er, I really have to disagree about "not overly special". That SP was plenty special, and I'm saying it as a great Hanyu fan. (And then there's my casual-watcher mother's request after Olys: make me the compilation of the best performances and don't forget to put up the guy from Kazakhstan first!
I agree with all of this. Who cares if you're consistent if you can win a World silver and an Olympic bronze. Much better than the reverse situation. Don't we wish Jeremy Abbott could be as consistent as Denis Ten.
For me Denis has the most balanced skating now that Machida has retired. Ideal blend of technique and artistry.
Speaking of his Olympic free skate, I wanted to watch it again but I can't find anything on youtube. Does anyone have it?
Yes. It was nice. Joshua was pretty heartbroken at NHK because he bombed in both segments.
Overall I can live with the judges marks. It makes sense to me (unlike Europeans where I see some skaters getting high transitions marks when they basically do crossovers and/or three turns into jumps!!!!!)- this is the more serious competition.
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- Sep 12, 2013
I agree with you BoP! Josh was superior to everyone but Denis today. However, he lacks the quad and in today's world, that sinks him to 5th.
Totally agree re Shoma's poor landings. Mura has great jumps but his program is simple compared to Josh's and he skates in a clunky, inelegant way. Han Yan was good but had a mistake. I think Josh's short is a masterpiece and that he skates it with world medalist grace, beauty, flow, and exquisite edges. His jumps were all beautiful.
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Shoma is from Japan, he is used to compete in such a deep field
nam has strong mentality too but adding quad to his SP for 1st time afeected himHere you go, also this site has all singles sp/fp/ex programs link
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I'm one of those who are glad that Jason upped his game even if he failed to deliver *this time*. He will land it after a few more competitions.
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- Dec 10, 2013
Yes!! My predictions nearly came true. Denis finally got a 95 plus SP and Joshua nearly got an 85 plus score. I am so glad my favorite short programs this season have been performed perfectly.
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- Dec 10, 2013
Great skates ruined by terrible camerawork once again. Out of focus, long shots and half-body shots you name it they got it. Why does this have to happen now when Denis has a flawless SP. At Skate America Denis' footwork looked a million times better than this 4CC straight 3 step sequence.
^^ You probably have an accurate point there KKonas. Denis likely could improve more in that area with this particular music. Not to say that he never interprets his music well though. Denis always moves quite beautifully over the ice, so he knows how to skate thru and to the music very well if not exactly brilliantly on every occasion.
Some random thoughts on men's sp: That's the way to do it, Denis Ten! So, Taka Kozuka did not attend 4CCs then? Shoma Uno is quite brilliant, even without knowing it or owning it all the way yet. How could he own it completely at his age?! My goodness, this kid is amazing. No matter how good Uno is right now though, I think the judges go so overboard in rushing to anoint the next great thing loaded with quads, outsized talent, and huge stylistic potential. Uno's PCS seem a tad high, but then again when I look at this kid, he simply oozes talent (Dai-inspired).
Too bad for Adam Rippon. Since Adam doesn't have a consistency track record, he's got to skate clean every time out to get any respect from the judges. Clearly Adam has all the style and presentation skills to place higher if he could get his tech more consistent. International judges apparently see a healthy and clean Joshua Farris as the U.S. guy to beat (Farris nearly won the U.S. championships in any case). If Farris can land the quad consistently and steadily build rep, his PCS are already better and should be scored better than a lot of guys the judges tend to favor simply because they can land quads. You should have to land quads with mucho artistry and style all the time (hint, hint, Javi, Kovtun, Voronov).
Jason Brown is wondrous, but obviously his team feel the need to start putting in the quad, and it's not a bad strategy to go for it here at 4CCs. Quite interesting that had Jason decided to go for the clean program w/o a quad, he might be in the same range of marks with Josh, who decided not to throw the quad in the sp. We'll see how these varying strategies work for these two U.S. guys. I agree with Jenny and Dave from The Skating Lesson (as they opined in their Euros wrap-up), that it is simply wrong to so heavily score PCS based on whether a guy can consistently land quads. To be fair, skaters with excellent presentation skills should be given better PCS credit if they skate a clean program without a quad, or attempt a downgraded quad and have an otherwise squeaky clean program on all other elements. I think Jason did have a mistake on another element aside from the downgraded (under-rotated and two-footed) quad attempt, if I'm not mistaken. Still, Jason's PCS deserved a bit higher.
For me, the biggest problem in the way men are currently scored is that in general skaters known to have a bit more consistency with the quad get break after break with falls on quads and landing sloppy quads while also lacking in well-developed presentation skills.
After Nam's sp skate, Orser mentioned to him in the kiss 'n cry that "the quad in the short program has a different tension. You'll get used to it."
Josh is just so cute, and his sp suits him to a T! He has such a grown-up authenticity with this sp. Kudos to Jeff Buttle (choreographer). Did anyone else hear when Josh said in the kiss 'n cry after his sp: "Now I have to turn the quad." And then right before his sp marks came up, he and coach, Damon Allen both laughingly said, "Give me love..."
I agree with everyone who says the standings could move around a lot after the FP. But I also think the current standings tend to show some of the judges' biases in terms of placement (except for skaters expected to do better who were dinged for errors).
I must say Mishe Ge and Jeremy Ten are both looking well-trained, determined, new and improved. It continues to amuse me how many of the men have been rocking facial hair this season, following Jeremy Abbott's lead. Even without his errors, Nam still skates juniorishly and slow. Even should he land quads in his FP, I don't think Nam should be scored very highly on PCS until he improves his speed and presentation. While I'm not that impressed by Mura, I think he has shown some improvement in presentation this season (again, Dai-inspired). However, I'm still not sold on Mura. I like Murakami better, and I feel Murakami was quite low-balled in the sp (perhaps partly due to skating early). I admire Han Yan's skating skills, but I think Han Yan needs to develop further in terms of authenticity, choreography, music selection and presentation skills. Both Mura and Han Yan had errors on their quads and I think both were over-credited on PCS.
Some random thoughts on men's sp: That's the way to do it, Denis Ten! So, Taka Kozuka did not attend 4CCs then? Shoma Uno is quite brilliant, even without knowing it or owning it all the way yet. How could he own it completely at his age?! My goodness, this kid is amazing. No matter how good Uno is right now though, I think the judges go so overboard in rushing to anoint the next great thing loaded with quads, outsized talent, and huge stylistic potential. Uno's PCS seem a tad high, but then again when I look at this kid, he simply oozes talent (Dai-inspired).
Too bad for Adam Rippon. Since Adam doesn't have a consistency track record, he's got to skate clean every time out to get any respect from the judges. Clearly Adam has all the style and presentation skills to place higher if he could get his tech more consistent. International judges apparently see a healthy and clean Joshua Farris as the U.S. guy to beat (Farris nearly won the U.S. championships in any case). If Farris can land the quad consistently and steadily build rep, his PCS are already better and should be scored better than a lot of guys the judges tend to favor simply because they can land quads. You should have to land quads with mucho artistry and style all the time (hint, hint, Javi, Kovtun, Voronov).
Jason Brown is wondrous, but obviously his team feel the need to start putting in the quad, and it's not a bad strategy to go for it here at 4CCs. Quite interesting that had Jason decided to go for the clean program w/o a quad, he might be in the same range of marks with Josh, who decided not to throw the quad in the sp. We'll see how these varying strategies work for these two U.S. guys. I agree with Jenny and Dave from The Skating Lesson (as they opined in their Euros wrap-up), that it is simply wrong to so heavily score PCS based on whether a guy can consistently land quads. To be fair, skaters with excellent presentation skills should be given better PCS credit if they skate a clean program without a quad, or attempt a downgraded quad and have an otherwise squeaky clean program on all other elements. I think Jason did have a mistake on another element aside from the downgraded (under-rotated and two-footed) quad attempt, if I'm not mistaken. Still, Jason's PCS deserved a bit higher.
For me, the biggest problem in the way men are currently scored is that in general skaters known to have a bit more consistency with the quad get break after break with falls on quads and landing sloppy quads while also lacking in well-developed presentation skills.
After Nam's sp skate, Orser mentioned to him in the kiss 'n cry that "the quad in the short program has a different tension. You'll get used to it."
Josh is just so cute, and his sp suits him to a T! He has such a grown-up authenticity with this sp. Kudos to Jeff Buttle (choreographer). Did anyone else hear when Josh said in the kiss 'n cry after his sp: "Now I have to turn the quad." And then right before his sp marks came up, he and coach, Damon Allen both laughingly said, "Give me love..."
I agree with everyone who says the standings could move around a lot after the FP. But I also think the current standings tend to show some of the judges' biases in terms of placement (except for skaters expected to do better who were dinged for errors).
I must say Mishe Ge and Jeremy Ten are both looking well-trained, determined, new and improved. It continues to amuse me how many of the men have been rocking facial hair this season, following Jeremy Abbott's lead.
Even without his errors, Nam still skates juniorishly and slow. Even should he land quads in his FP, I don't think Nam should be scored very highly on PCS until he improves his speed and presentation. While I'm not that impressed by Mura, I think he has shown some improvement in presentation this season (again, Dai-inspired). However, I'm still not sold on Mura. I like Murakami better, and I feel Murakami was quite low-balled in the sp (perhaps partly due to skating early). I admire Han Yan's skating skills, but I think Han Yan needs to develop further in terms of authenticity, choreography, music selection and presentation skills. Both Mura and Han Yan had errors on their quads and I think both were over-credited on PCS.
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