2016 Cup of China Ladies SP

[ancientpeas]

Speaking of things you "Canadians Say" I have a question. Why do you put, "Eh" at the end of statements? Like, "That's good coffee, Eh!" Instead of the way we'd say it in the US. "Hey, that's good coffee!" When you say, "Eh" does it mean, "Don't you agree?" Kind of like "I Know, Right!" which is a common thing to say here in the US. At least here in California.

Most of us don't say Eh very often. It's more of an east coast thing. I think the eh thing is just a quirky Canadian custom. and yes I think you could probably replace it with "right". Now calling someone a hoser on the other hand...

 

[ancientpeas]

I've seen Canadians say Osmond, Chan, D/R and basically any other Canadian skater has been overscored. I think, like most fans, we try to be objective. Some us do a better job than others. But here is something to think about at least for the time you read it:

Take any of the what 5 major skating countries (Russia, China, U.S, Canada, and Japan). If you can honestly say that you've never cared for even one skater from each of those countries maybe it's not about them but about you.

It does seem like some of you really have a hate on for Chan though and I get it but I think it colours your perception of what he does bring the table. Do I think he has been held up by the PCS to the detriment of others? Yes. I guess I'm more sanguine about it than some of you that didn't live through the 6.0 system where they used figures to pick the winner and basically give you an artistic impression mark irregardless of how the person skated.

 

[Biellmann]

How can someone compare Hongo with Akiko? :eeking:
I understand why judges don't like Rika. She is aesthetically not pleasing to the eyes :confused2:
Her posture, she is stiff, her movements are so weird, it's distracting. I think the judges like more elegant and "ladylike" skaters

 

[Barb]

wow, great event. Finally Elena having more fluid jumps and her program is lovely. And Osmond is great, her jumps .
Again judges being cruel with Rika :dev2: . And Mai is sooo cute and her jumps beautiful.

 

[rvi5]

...When someone new or old suddenly starts skating at that level, it's wrong to penalize them for "well you haven't skated this well for very long."...

I am reminded of a poster (unsure if it was here or at FSU), who kept arguing that Cynthia Phaneuf did not deserve her score for 5th place at 2010 Worlds where she skated a clean program. The final post that person submitted on the thread, was a comment that he/she would need to get around to watching Cynthia's skate. Huh???

...this person persistently argued his/her point for pages based on Cynthia's past reputation, not what actually happened on the ice that day (which he/she obviously did not see). Unfortunately, some people seem stuck in the old 6.0 era thinking, when skaters scores may be based on past reputation or wait your turn attitudes.

 

[millie]

Speaking of things you "Canadians Say" I have a question. Why do you put, "Eh" at the end of statements? Like, "That's good coffee, Eh!" Instead of the way we'd say it in the US. "Hey, that's good coffee!" When you say, "Eh" does it mean, "Don't you agree?" Kind of like "I Know, Right!" which is a common thing to say here in the US. At least here in California.

Why do Americans put the Hey at the beginning and not at the end like Canadians? Go figure...

 

[randomfan]

- Her lutz is a flutz: honestly i've seen so many complaints about Evgenia's lutz but Kaetlyn's lutz is way worse and most of the time judges refuses to call it.

I agree with mostly everything else you said on this comment, but not the part above. Both of them do struggle with having a good lutz edge, but Evgenia's lutz is actually worse...

 

[bobbob]

Kaetlyn's lutz was a flutz, agreed, through I would be okay if they just said unclear. As much as I dislike Radionova, I thought she deserved a higher score than Kaetlyn here, pretty good performance! Mai's elements were great, but she is a little slow and her music reminds me of something bad, lol. Tuk was okay, not great, Ashley was a little rusty but I liked her program as well.

 

[topaz emerald]

Probably refers to doing a 3F-3Lo instead of a 3F-3T? A 3Lo has a higher base value than a 3T; granted, they are harder to get the full call on, as the 3Lo is generally URed in a combo by most skaters when done as the second jump.

haha, seriously, as that was Mao Asada's weapon jump (besides her triple axel) against Yuna Kim, and after a few competitions, judges kept calling that combo under-rotated. With the way they have been ignoring her flaws, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't call it on her if she does indeed under-rotate that jump.

 

[topaz emerald]

Wow, poor Polina Tsurskaya then, if that's the case. Her coach should be objective, rather than actively supporting one student over another.

I don't think Eteri is objective...Julia L. leaving her was a perfect example of her biases and self-serving goals.

 

[semosk8tfan]

Since I dozed thru this event I have been checking it out on youtube. I thought Osmond had a great skate...but that scarf! My first thought was "hickey cover-up"...not sure what that says about me but I am going with sleep deprivation.

 

[topaz emerald]

Ashley's free skate is better, but this SP is not doing her any favors at all. The music is too hard to skate to, even for her. It has an abrupt ending, etc. She and Adam must have thought this kind of dancehall music was a great idea for their SP's for some odd reason, but it is not. One positive note is her dress is her most amazing yet but that doesn't have anything to do with the bad program, unfortunately.

just watched her cup of china short program...what a disaster.

 

[liv]

I think Kaetlyn gets huge scores because now that she is healthy, she skates big and does not have a lot of weaknesses. You can't say she has URs, poor posture, too much two footed skating, poor ice coverage, overly flailing arms, scratchy landings, no height etc.. Everything is done well and when things are done well, and with speed, that's even better. She does wonky things here and there for sure, maybe a questionable edge or two, but when she's on those are at a minimum. And, she projects to the audience and performs. I was not a fan at all until SC when I saw in person how much she looks up and out and draws you in, while other skaters are staring mainly at the judges. She was performing, while many others were just doing their programs. I think this sets her a bit apart for the judges, especially if many other things are equal or comparable between her and someone else. IIRC, she was scored fairly big when she first arrived on the scene before injuries and inconsistencies took over... I think the judges liked her then and were just waiting for her to do well in order to do it again.

 

[shiroKJ]

I adore Kaetlyn and her spunk but that lutz should have been 'e'. She still deserved to be first, although I would have Elena a point or so closer to her (the call on the kaetlyn's flutz would have accomplished that). Overall I'm glad the top 3 did well.

 

[topaz emerald]

I adore Kaetlyn and her spunk but that lutz should have been 'e'. She still deserved to be first, although I would have Elena a point or so closer to her (the call on the kaetlyn's flutz would have accomplished that). Overall I'm glad the top 3 did well.

i disagree...Katelyn should have beat Elena by at least 5-6 or 7 points. Elena is always hunched over, and that opening combo had no flow out of it, scratchy landing. She cannot interpret any kind of music, absolutely zero artistry.

 

[nocturnalis]

Are you referring to Evgenia? Because that's not what happened: she built that PB at every competition with clean performances and a huge bv in her programs. FS scores went high by the time she moved to seniors but that's because her previous FS at juniors was atrocious, judges never liked it. Same opposite for her FS last season, judges loved it from the start.
...
2015 Rostelecom Cup: 67.03 / 139.73
2015 Skate America 70.92 / 135.09
-----------------------------------
2015 Junior Worlds: 68.48 / 124.49
2014 JGP Final: 67.09 / 123.80

While let's see Osmond scores.

2016 Skate Canada: 74.33 / 132.12
---------------------------------
2016 Four Continents C.: 56.14 / 119.49
2015 NHK Trophy: 57.07 / 111.41
2015 Skate Canada 59.21 / 86.85

She was coming back from an injury, injured herself at Skate Canada last year, and probably shouldn't have been competing in the first place.

 

[shiroKJ]

i disagree...Katelyn should have beat Elena by at least 5-6 or 7 points. Elena is always hunched over, and that opening combo had no flow out of it, scratchy landing. She cannot interpret any kind of music, absolutely zero artistry.

Different strokes for different folks. :cool14:

 

[unico]

I think the very best skaters (Medvedeva, Wagner, Asada, Radionova, Gold, Miyahara, Tuktamysheva...) will always generate polarizing comments. Now that Osmond has, deservedly, joined their ranks, she will unfortunately be subjected to the same polarization. Great artistry is either loved or hated. Mediocre artists never get criticized because they are uninteresting.

Luckily, the judges see past this and reward skaters accordingly...most of the time.

I agree, and everyone at the top is good, so they all have their own fair share of detractors or supports, so I just don't see why defenders have to interpret criticisms into some hate campaign based on nationalities? It's childish.

I've seen Canadians say Osmond, Chan, D/R and basically any other Canadian skater has been overscored. I think, like most fans, we try to be objective. Some us do a better job than others. But here is something to think about at least for the time you read it:

Take any of the what 5 major skating countries (Russia, China, U.S, Canada, and Japan). If you can honestly say that you've never cared for even one skater from each of those countries maybe it's not about them but about you.

It does seem like some of you really have a hate on for Chan though and I get it but I think it colours your perception of what he does bring the table. Do I think he has been held up by the PCS to the detriment of others? Yes. I guess I'm more sanguine about it than some of you that didn't live through the 6.0 system where they used figures to pick the winner and basically give you an artistic impression mark irregardless of how the person skated.

Judging by the comments of the past few pages (just look at Page 43) and the amount of thumbs-up comments bemoaning all the hatred towards Canadian skaters, I think there's obviously at least some angst here.

Who is saying things to the effect of "I hate every skater from this country because they're from this country"? It's not impossible people can genuinely dislike the top skaters of a country for non-nationalistic reasons. It does say something about the person's tastes or values, but that's fine because nobody is obliged to like anyone.

Funny that you bring up Chan in relation to a discussion about this anti-Canada sentiment. Patrick by far is not the only one with staunch detractors. If you agree with criticisms that he is "held up by the PCS to the detriment of others", why is it wrong that for other posters, that maybe there can be reasons that outweigh a skater's positives. Just check out discussions on any of the Russian ladies and phrase it the same: "It seems of you really dislike X for A,B,C, reasons but I think it colours your perception of what X brings to the table"-"You're just a Russiaphobe!!"-"I'm not a hater! I'm not a Russia-phobia! This is just analysis! This is my opinion!" But it's okay then? Or is it not?

Marks do matter, PCS matters, technical calls matter, edge calls matter, small inaccuracies (inflation/deflation) in GOE matter, distances between competitors' marks matter. And as long as they matter (or even if they don't ), there will be debate.

 

[Interspectator]

I think Osmond did a wonderful performance and was rewarded for it...my real complaint with the judging is Rika's woefully low scoring in all areas of PCS where Ashley and Elizaveta can score higher than her with some very questionable scores in Skating Skills and transitions. Can one honestly say that at THIS competition, Rika performed worse than they did or had more two footed skating or had fewer transitions? It is a matter of a few tenths of a point here or there, and less GOEs here or there, but in ladies skating it matters a lot.
I'm really sad that her improvements go un-noticed. I by no means think she is perfect she still needs to work on her posture and refinement, her speed and spins can be better... but if judges see fit to overlook Ashley and Radionova's weaknesses in PCS and give them an overall high score, why can't they do the same for Rika?
Ranting over.

 

[mrrice]

Why do Americans put the Hey at the beginning and not at the end like Canadians? Go figure...

Um.....Cuz we're weird. Seriously, I was so distracted by the way he looked, he could have said, "OMG, Duuude, this coffee suuucks" Like my friends here in California would say it. :agree: