2023-24 Japanese Women's Figure Skating

[rabidline]

In 2019, Marin Honda got a Challenger despite not having produced any medals in the previous season, and placing 15th at the 2018 Nationals. Hosoda, Shiraiwa and Kawabata of the top 10 all got snubbed (Hosoda likely wasn't in the WS, but I bet the other two were).

Kawabata was a junior in the 2019-2020 season, so she can't be assigned to a Challenger. You are right about Marin. I can argue she was a World Junior champion (it took until Mao Shimada for another Japanese girl winning Junior Worlds) but that doesn't justify her later assignments. Although, eventually JSF can't turn a blind eye to her results, so at least there's progress on that.

"and I daresay a recent OG top 6 finisher and team medalist, plus preceding JNats silver medalist" ..... who is returning from injury and a long break, and whose condition is being monitored by JSF, since Wakaba did attend the JSF National Training Camp. At the same camp, Wakaba also said she hasn't decided on her SP (as opposed to Kaori who had a SP but didn't announce). If you are JSF, is that someone you want to send to an early challenger?

Like you said, maybe it's JSF's fault for sending her to compete in CS last year while she was injured. If you think that way, then why would JSF make the same mistake and send Wakaba to an early CS if she's still building back her form and can spend her time training locally to prepare for the GP series? This way, she won't get reinjured needlessly and has more time to prepare for a bigger international competition. What good is judges feedback when you risk your health competing too early?

 

[surimi]

Kawabata was a junior in the 2019-2020 season, so she can't be assigned to a Challenger.

"and I daresay a recent OG top 6 finisher and team medalist, plus preceding JNats silver medalist" ..... who is returning from injury and a long break, and whose condition is being monitored by JSF, since Wakaba did attend the JSF National Training Camp. Like you said, maybe it's JSF's fault for sending her to compete in CS while injured. Why would they make the same mistake and send her to an early CS if she's still building back her form and can spend her time training locally to prepare for the GP series?

1) Unless there's been a change between 2018 and 2023, then you can be sent to JGP and a Challenger as long as they don't overlap. Mako Yamashita, season 2017/18. Asian Open CS among senior women, then two JGP.
And Shiraiwa's CS exclusion in favor of Marin still shows that JSF can choose based on their own preferences, and give special treatment if they wish so, with no codified criteria to specify who has a right to be chosen and who doesn't.

2) that depends on her condition. But if she's fit enough for Gensan where other top skaters are (and from which she hasn't WD yet, I see), she's likely fit enough for CS.

 

[cohkaix]

After her break, she could really use the points. Perhaps they're waiting for her competitive results first? Is she assigned to Gensan? I can't find the entries now. Same for Mana.

Yes, both Wakaba and Mana are on the entry list to Gensan.

Another point about Wakaba NOT getting CS spot (yet?)...without a record from Japanese Nationals of previous season, she will have to go through the regional/sectional process, in order to advance to Nationals in December, which should be her priority at the moment?

In other words, she's required to take part in:
Tokyo Regional (Sept 21-24)
Eastern Sectional (Nov. 2-5) *Can be waived if in overlap with a GP assignment

Well, indeed a Nebelhorn Trophy assignment could get her another waiving to the Tokyo Regional...

 

[rabidline]

Well, indeed a Nebelhorn Trophy assignment could get her another waiving to the Tokyo Regional...

I was about to say, LOL. But I think JSF has been more picky about Challenger selection after the pandemic and it shows. At least it wasn't as bad as last year.

 

[rabidline]

1) Unless there's been a change between 2018 and 2023, then you can be sent to JGP and a Challenger as long as they don't overlap. Mako Yamashita, season 2017/18. Asian Open CS among senior women, then two JGP.
And Shiraiwa's CS exclusion in favor of Marin still shows that JSF can choose based on their own preferences, and give special treatment if they wish so, with no codified criteria to specify who has a right to be chosen and who doesn't.

2) that depends on her condition. But if she's fit enough for Gensan where other top skaters are (and from which she hasn't WD yet, I see), she's likely fit enough for CS.

Mako Yamashita... was entered in Asian Open CS 2017 as a Junior not as a Senior (alongside Rika Kihira) and did 2 JGP. She was entered to Asian Open CS 2018 as a Senior.

Are you really comparing entering Gensan = fit enough to get a CS assignment? Gensan is a local tournament (less transport costs) where the skater enters it voluntarily at their own will (and can withdraw anytime) and pay for it with their own money while the expenses to go to a Challenger is borne by JSF. Wakaba can enter 40 local competitions while injured and JSF wouldn't care since they don't have to pay for her expenses. But sending and paying her expenses to compete internationally when they're not confident with her form? When last season it backfired spectacularly on all of them and sent her to a long needed break? I think JSF learned their lesson from sending her internationally last year with her condition and would rather not repeat the same mistake.

 

[surimi]

Are you really comparing entering Gensan = fit enough to get a CS assignment? Gensan is a local tournament (less transport costs) where the skater enters it voluntarily at their own will (and can withdraw anytime) and pay for it with their own money while the expenses to go to a Challenger is borne by JSF. Wakaba can enter 40 local competitions while injured and JSF wouldn't care since they don't have to pay for her expenses. But sending and paying her expenses to compete internationally when they're not confident with her form? When last season it backfired spectacularly on all of them and sent her to a long needed break? I think JSF learned their lesson from sending her internationally last year with her condition and would rather not repeat the same mistake.

Since as you say yourself, the rules are not codified anywhere, anyone's guess is as good as another person's when it comes to 'rules' for CS assignments. And JSF has assigned based on their own internal intentions in the past, apparently randomly to the eyes of an outsider. The sooner they post the rules/guidelines for WC and CS assignments clearly for skaters and fans to read, the better. Until then, fans will question other fans on their interpretation of selection rules (especially when presented as a fact) that are in reality not spelt out anywhere.
I sincerely doubt JSF has 'learned' any lesson from anything. My impression as a a fan is that they'll just do what behooves them, and if your impression is different, you're welcome to believe it. Neither of us are insiders.

 

[rabidline]

I sincerely doubt JSF has 'learned' any lesson from anything. My impression as a a fan is that they'll just do what behooves them, and if your impression is different, you're welcome to believe it. Neither of us are insiders.

Yep, and I also agree that JSF will just do what behooves them, which means not wasting post-pandemic money to send someone they just sent last season to compete at an early international competition, didn't do well, and the skater ended up having to take a long physical break after that, which means she can't skate to represent the country internationally for a full year.

Which honestly, is a very economically efficient decision from the JSF side. And probably better for Wakaba's health too.

 

[surimi]

Yep, and I also agree that JSF will just do what behooves them, which means not wasting money to send someone they just sent last season to compete at an early international competition, didn't do well, and the skater ended up having to take a long physical break after that, which means she can't skate to represent the country internationally for a full year. Which honestly is a very economically efficient decision from the JSF side.

Neither of us are JSF planners or budget keepers, and anyone's guess is as good as another person's. What makes sense to you, doesn't necessarily make sense to me, and vice versa. Nothing more to say for my part anymore.

 

[rabidline]

Neither of us are JSF planners or budget keepers, and anyone's guess is as good as another person's. What makes sense to you, doesn't necessarily make sense to me, and vice versa. Nothing more to say for my part anymore.

Yep, and we never know if JSF actually knows the skaters' conditions better than all of us. What we perceive as "injustice" because they don't send or assign skaters may be a case of the skaters already stating in advance that they prefer a later assignment to rest physically, or JSF seeing them skate recently and what they see isn't particularly encouraging, and they're actually doing the skaters a favor of not sending them and making it worse, we'll never know.

 

[surimi]

You may well be right about that last point. But I'm tired of having to go through past archives and having to continually defend and back up my posts the moment they're even slightly critical of JSF and their actions.
Just one last quip before I'm really out of here. Mako came up recently, and the claim that if a skater is junior level, they obviously can't be doing a senior Challenger. Then there's Mitsuki Sumoto, although he doesn't belong here: Senior level Asian Open 2018, then JGP and other junior competitions for the rest of the season. When there's a will, there's a way. For everyone, including JSF.

 

[Joekaz]

Yep, and we never know if JSF actually knows the skaters' conditions better than all of us. What we perceive as "injustice" because they don't send or assign skaters may be a case of the skaters already stating in advance that they prefer a later assignment to rest physically, or JSF seeing them skate recently and what they see isn't particularly encouraging, and they're actually doing the skaters a favor of not sending them and making it worse, we'll never know.

As much as JSF wishes Wakaba would go away, as long as she skates well at Nationals and podiums, she should be fine.

 

[hermine17]

New programs :

Ayumi Shibayama SP : Danse Macabre (choreography by Cathy Reed)
Ayumi Shibayama FS : The Beach Tree (choreography by Kaitlyn Weaver)

Ikura Kushida SP : Red Violin (recycled)
Ikura Kushida FS : The Little Prince (choreography by Kaitlyn Weaver)

Yurina Okuno SP : El Flamenco (choreography by Kenji Miyamoto)
Yurina Okuno FS : Antarctica (choreography by Cathy Reed)

Haruna Murakami SP : Dance Monkey (choreography by Cathy Reed)
Haruna Murakami FS : Australia (recycled)

Yo Takagi SP : Sous Le Ciel De Paris (recycled)
Yo Takagi LP : Mission (choreography by Kenji Miyamoto)

Rena Uezono SP : New Moon / F For You (recycled)

Kaoruko Wada SP : How Does A Moment Last Forever (choreography by Noriko Sato)
Kaoruko Wada FS : Sing For Me (choreography by Kenji Miyamoto)

Sara Hanai FS : Cats (choreography by Miho Kawaume)

Sumika Kanazawa FS : E.T. (choreography by Cathy Reed)

Saho Otake FS : The Four Seasons, Winter (choreography by Momoe Nagumo)

 

[cohkaix]

Kaori was at a special sports award event by the Kobe City today. She talked about the upcoming Gensan summer competition, in which she's planning to debut her new SP. The new program uses the music from the theme music of a Japanese TV drama 'Kounodori: Dr. Stork' couple years ago. The theme song has another familiar name 'Baby, God Bless You'. (And it's choreographed by Jeff Buttle).

​

 

[gleungc6]

JGP Osaka women:

Mao shimada
Yo takagi
Ikura kushida

 

[RafaelAstro]

What? They didn't go with Kaoruko Wada?

 

[TeamGubanova]

What? They didn't go with Kaoruko Wada?

there are still plenty of other open spots and the entry deadline was made before Gensan (where she won)

 

[lileychristie]

What do you think are the chances of Rino getting a challenger or a senior B event?

She won the Minato Aquls Cup in July and placed 5th in Gensan Summer Cup just now behind Hana, Rion, Kaori and Mone all of whom already have 2 GP assignments and (some) challengers as well... I really really want Rino to be able to rebuild her international reputation

 

[labgoat]

upcoming Gensan summer competition, in which she's planning to debut her new SP

These may be videos from this event labeled GSC. It just appeared in my feed.

https://youtube.com/@meitetsuta02?si=MoWdp8TFbmNCrzLM

 

[Joekaz]

Wakaba looked good in her SP in Tokyo yesterday.

 

[TeamGubanova]

I think host spot/leftover cs assignments may likely be between Matsuike and Egawa (200+ at Tokyo Summer). Even though i was rly hoping for Yamashita to be able to rebuild her international reputation such a good 3Lz3T