2023 Cup of China Men's Short Program

[Baron Vladimir]

Did he see them live side by side? Because TV doesn't translate speed well. I remeber last year JWC, Broussard looked far, far better on TV in short than he did on ice. I mean, I will see all 3 hopefully in Montreal, but until then...I saw Uno, I saw Fa.

My bet is that is the main reason - power and speed, that's also why it is 'easier' for Shoma to 'hide' his landings in front of the judges comparing to him. But you will tell us after Words

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

No matter how important any one part of figure skating is, it can't be the only thing that determines standings and the scores should NOT be manipulated because of it, as they are for Shaidorov. The less bias, the better and the Canadian tech panel was atrocious in respect to this. Chinese was better, but not stellar.

Yep, there is always going to be questionable judging. The system continues to need many improvements overall. And when we have favorites, we will always notice the ways they may be treated that we feel are unfair.

It was a great men's fp battle btw. I caught up with the fp performances late. Adam fought hard. He was tenacious. He deserves his win. Shoma showed his brilliance, but he completely bailed on the jump he'd had problems with in the sp (yet the judges gave the element high GOE). And Shoma was shaky on another quad. He and Lambiel do not seem overly dismayed or concerned though. I expect they have a strategy set for this season.

Honestly, the judges still took off over 8pts from Mikhail's tech score in the fp. I can see the tech score moving down a little, but not by 8 pts! It seems as if they didn't want Mikhail receiving over 100 pts. The judges were like, "Wait your turn, young man." It seems as if judges were just looking for Mikhail to make a mistake. He calmly went about his business, in effect saying to the judges: "Not today!"

Most likely, the judges were hoping to get Tomono on the podium. Despite his mistakes, I enjoyed Tomono's fp very much at CoC, especially after Hanretty described how it came about with Misha Ge. In any case, see how Tomono edged a clean Gabriele Frangipani by percentage points. Thankfully, the judges were not able to dump on Mikhail winning bronze.

 

[lariko]

Yep, there is always going to be questionable judging. The system continues to need many improvements overall. And when we have favorites, we will always notice the ways they may be treated that we feel are unfair.

It was a great men's fp battle btw. I caught up with the fp performances late. Adam fought hard. He was tenacious. He deserves his win. Shoma showed his brilliance, but he completely bailed on the jump he'd had problems with in the sp (yet the judged gave the element high GOE). And Shoma was shaky on another quad. He and Lambiel do not seem overly dismayed or concerned though. I expect they have a strategy set for this season.

Honestly, the judges still took off over 8pts from Mikhail's tech score in the fp. I can see the tech score moving down a little, but not by 8 pts! It seems as if they didn't want Mikhail receiving over 100 pts. The judges were like, "Wait your turn, young man." It seems as if judges were just looking for Mikhail to make a mistake. He calmly went about his business, in effect saying to the judges: "Not today!"

Most likely, the judges were hoping to get Tomono on the podium. Despite his mistakes, I enjoyed Tomono's fp very much at CoC, especially after Hanretty described how it came about with Misha Ge. In any case, see how Tomono edged a clean Gabriele Frangipani by percentage points. Thankfully, the judges were not able to dump on Mikhail winning bronze.

But if it was fair, Shaidorov should have outscored Fa in the short and Uno in the free, placing 2nd overall. Fa's free getting higher score in China versus France where he had a skate of his lifetime was ludicrous. Absurd. Shaidorov should have placed 2nd or 3rd in SkCan, not 5th. And he should have been in the mix for GPF, like other talented debutants before him. He did two excellent competitions when all others men so far made mistakes. What future holds, I don't know. He might start bombing. He might not. But as of today, he is wuzrobbed of the season.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

But if it was fair, Shaidorov should have outscored Fa in the short and Uno in the free, placing 2nd overall. Fa's free getting higher score in China versus France where he had a skate of his lifetime was ludicrous. Absurd. Shaidorov should have placed 2nd or 3rd in SkCan, not 5th. And he should have been in the mix for GPF, like other talented debutants before him. He did two excellent competitions when all others men so far made mistakes. What future holds, I don't know. He might start bombing. He might not. But as of today, he is wuzrobbed of the season.

Come on now. I really like Mikhail Shaidorov, but the most I will say is: MS could have been scored a couple of pts higher in the sp, and his pcs were being managed which is par for the course as pcs are never accurately scored. Also, in no way should his fp tech score have been reduced by 8 pts. By 4 or 5 pts, okay, if they were set on decreasing his score. The judges clearly did not want MS to officially score over 100 tech pts in the fp. I suspect they may have been trying to crunch numbers to help Tomono edge MS for bronze. However, I do not recall how many points separated MS from Tomono overall. Truly, as a fan of MS, you should be happy that he strongly held in there and captured the bronze. ️

In any case, I would moreso say that G. Frangipani deserved to edge Tomono for fourth place, since GF skated two clean programs, and Tomono didn't. But, Tomono is more established, and he's also smoother and more talented than GF, in terms of SS and presentation.

As to your first sentence, we should know by now that nothing is fair in figure skating. No way is a newbie to seniors going to knock off two of the biggest male swashbucklers in figure skating today! That could only happen if Shoma and Adam fell completely apart, which they DID NOT. Also, please recognize MS being on the podium as the victory that it is.

MS is a talented newbie to senior men, but his coach has no clout and neither does his federation. This means MS has to make a name for himself via blood, sweat, and tears. He's proven himself on the senior GP, which is a huge accomplishment. Let's hope he remains steady and consistent, and that he continues to gain more respect from the judges at Euros and Worlds.

 

[Weathergal]

Come on now. I really like Mikhail Shaidorov, but the most I will say is: MS could have been scored a couple of pts higher in the sp, and his pcs were being managed which is par for the course as pcs are never accurately scored. Also, in no way should his fp tech score have been reduced by 8 pts. By 4 or 5 pts, okay, if they were set on decreasing his score. The judges clearly did not want MS to officially score over 100 tech pts in the fp. I suspect they may have been trying to crunch numbers to help Tomono edge MS for bronze. However, I do not recall how many points separated MS from Tomono overall. Truly, as a fan of MS, you should be happy that he strongly held in there and captured the bronze. ️

In any case, I would moreso say that G. Frangipani deserved to edge Tomono for fourth place, since GF skated two clean programs, and Tomono didn't. But, Tomono is more established, and he's also smoother and more talented than GF, in terms of SS and presentation.

As to your first sentence, we should know by now that nothing is fair in figure skating. No way is a newbie to seniors going to knock off two of the biggest male swashbucklers in figure skating today! That could only happen if Shoma and Adam fell completely apart, which they DID NOT. Also, please recognize MS being on the podium as the victory that it is.

MS is a talented newbie to senior men, but his coach has no clout and neither does his federation. This means MS has to make a name for himself via blood, sweat, and tears. He's proven himself on the senior GP, which is a huge accomplishment. Let's hope he remains steady and consistent, and that he continues to gain more respect from the judges at Euros and Worlds.

Or in his case, 4CCs and Worlds since Kazakhstan is part of 4CCs. I hope to see him at 4CCs this season. I really enjoyed him and his fellow Kazakh Men's and Women's skaters -- and Ice Dancers -- at 4CCs last season. I also think he has really improved since then, and I'm curious to see how he builds on this experience.

 

[lariko]

MS is a talented newbie to senior men, but his coach has no clout and neither does his federation. This means MS has to make a name for himself via blood, sweat, and tears. He's proven himself on the senior GP, which is a huge accomplishment. Let's hope he remains steady and consistent, and that he continues to gain more respect from the judges at Euros and Worlds.

And that's, in a nutshell, what's wrong with the sport. The fans who internalize this wrongness and uphold the unfairness by inventing BS excuses about knees or something as nebulous as 'but he is a better skater' help perpetuate this wrongness and double standard, discrediting the sport.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

And that's, in a nutshell, what's wrong with the sport. The fans who internalize this wrongness and uphold the unfairness by inventing BS excuses about knees or something as nebulous as 'but he is a better skater' help perpetuate this wrongness and double standard, discrediting the sport.

I always try to take a step back from high emotions. In the heat of emotions right after a competition, it's the hardest time. But at the end of the day, it's just a sport, no matter how frustrated I feel about the poor way it is run. I respect all the skaters. It's normal for all of us to have favorites and to disagree on the basis of our individual perceptions and regarding who we favor. In my case, I like a lot of men skaters. So many men in skating are hugely talented and entertaining to watch.

I truly respect and enjoy watching Adam because I remember when he first came up to seniors and Brian Joubert was his coach. Adam was a very talented jumper, but his talent was raw and unpolished. Plus, he was not consistent. So it has been wonderful watching Adam's transformation into a champion! He has harnessed his talent, and upped his consistency even from last season. That's huge! Adam deserves his success.

I get some of the annoyance against how the judges tend to fawn over Shoma. However, despite Shoma rarely skating two completely clean programs at competitions, his absolute brilliance, when he's on, is undeniable. Yuma, of course, is another extraordinary skater, who the judges also love. As Yuma continues to regain his quads, he will be a huge factor in the men's discipline. I've been impressed by Mikhail Shaidorov since I first saw him in juniors. This is a huge step for him, and I hope he continues to improve and to show the judges his worth.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Or in his case, 4CCs and Worlds since Kazakhstan is part of 4CCs. I hope to see him at 4CCs this season. I really enjoyed him and his fellow Kazakh Men's and Women's skaters -- and Ice Dancers -- at 4CCs last season. I also think he has really improved since then, and I'm curious to see how he builds on this experience.

Ha ha, yes! Thanks for the correction. I knew that MS is from Kazakhstan, but I forgot that Kazakhs compete at 4CCs. I'm not sure how I forgot. Maybe because Denis Ten has been so missed these past five years.

It will be quite lovely to see Mikhail have the opportunity to get on the podium at 4CCs! That might be difficult if Ilia, Shoma, Jun, Yuma, and Tomono or Yamamoto compete at 2024 4CCs. (Not to mention Kao Mura and/ Shun Sato in lieu of two of the other Japanese male skaters).

I wish that a separate North American championships would be reinstated (while retaining 4CCs), especially since Asian countries have Asian competitive events for their skaters.

 

[Skating91]

Uno's flip was an UR but 5 from one judge. 4 from two others . Not to mention he used his entire blade to jump.