Blade alignment or boot defect?

[Bells]

Hi everyone,

I’m at the end of my tether and I’m hoping someone’s had experience with this and can tell me what’s wrong or what to do!

I’ve been skating for a year and am on my 4th pair of boots. Currently my left boot and blade are perfect but my right boot and blade are messed up somewhere. I’m able to skate in a perfect straight line, although I’ve found that my left hip has to twist in slightly. And I don’t fight my blade that much when it’s sharp but it loses sharpening quickly on the back inside edge until there’s a visible difference in edge height and you can feel it in skating and with your finger on the blade (takes about 9 hours of skating). I can still spin mostly fine (I spin clockwise and on my right foot).

However, when I bend my knee, everything falls inside edge. My knee is forced at an awful angle inward that doesn’t happen off ice and I’m starting to get pain in my knee from it. When I bend my knee into its natural position in the boot, it forces me into a deep outside edge. When I’m actually skating, I find I can get my outside edge but my knee is still twisted in.

My local skate tech has moved the blade inward and outward and we’ve had no luck. The only other thing that I’ve noticed is that the overhang of the boot on the right inside side is much more than the outside side of the same boot and there is a little bit of weird plastic warping (they’re Jackson debuts). The left boot is even on overhang past the sole on both sides.

For additional context, my right leg is my dominant leg and I do everything clockwise. I pronate in both feet but not as much on the right to the point where in my previous 3 boots, I’ve never needed to have the right side adjusted and have not had knee pain. Off ice, my knee tracks normally.

Does anyone know what’s going on?

 

[Freya998]

Hi everyone,

I’m at the end of my tether and I’m hoping someone’s had experience with this and can tell me what’s wrong or what to do!

I’ve been skating for a year and am on my 4th pair of boots. Currently my left boot and blade are perfect but my right boot and blade are messed up somewhere. I’m able to skate in a perfect straight line, although I’ve found that my left hip has to twist in slightly. And I don’t fight my blade that much when it’s sharp but it loses sharpening quickly on the back inside edge until there’s a visible difference in edge height and you can feel it in skating and with your finger on the blade (takes about 9 hours of skating). I can still spin mostly fine (I spin clockwise and on my right foot).

However, when I bend my knee, everything falls inside edge. My knee is forced at an awful angle inward that doesn’t happen off ice and I’m starting to get pain in my knee from it. When I bend my knee into its natural position in the boot, it forces me into a deep outside edge. When I’m actually skating, I find I can get my outside edge but my knee is still twisted in.

My local skate tech has moved the blade inward and outward and we’ve had no luck. The only other thing that I’ve noticed is that the overhang of the boot on the right inside side is much more than the outside side of the same boot and there is a little bit of weird plastic warping (they’re Jackson debuts). The left boot is even on overhang past the sole on both sides.

For additional context, my right leg is my dominant leg and I do everything clockwise. I pronate in both feet but not as much on the right to the point where in my previous 3 boots, I’ve never needed to have the right side adjusted and have not had knee pain. Off ice, my knee tracks normally.

Does anyone know what’s going on?

Can you tell us you height and weight? What stuff are you working on and what boot or blade are you using? Are you using any insoles and are you working with a coach?
@Ic3Rabbit

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Can you tell us you height and weight? What stuff are you working on and what boot or blade are you using? Are you using any insoles and are you working with a coach?
@Ic3Rabbit

OP stated they are Jackson Debut boots....
__________________________________________________________________

Anyway, @tstop4me or @High Carbon, you want to take this one please?

 

[High Carbon]

Hi everyone,

I’m at the end of my tether and I’m hoping someone’s had experience with this and can tell me what’s wrong or what to do!

I’ve been skating for a year and am on my 4th pair of boots. Currently my left boot and blade are perfect but my right boot and blade are messed up somewhere. I’m able to skate in a perfect straight line, although I’ve found that my left hip has to twist in slightly. And I don’t fight my blade that much when it’s sharp but it loses sharpening quickly on the back inside edge until there’s a visible difference in edge height and you can feel it in skating and with your finger on the blade (takes about 9 hours of skating). I can still spin mostly fine (I spin clockwise and on my right foot).

However, when I bend my knee, everything falls inside edge. My knee is forced at an awful angle inward that doesn’t happen off ice and I’m starting to get pain in my knee from it. When I bend my knee into its natural position in the boot, it forces me into a deep outside edge. When I’m actually skating, I find I can get my outside edge but my knee is still twisted in.

My local skate tech has moved the blade inward and outward and we’ve had no luck. The only other thing that I’ve noticed is that the overhang of the boot on the right inside side is much more than the outside side of the same boot and there is a little bit of weird plastic warping (they’re Jackson debuts). The left boot is even on overhang past the sole on both sides.

For additional context, my right leg is my dominant leg and I do everything clockwise. I pronate in both feet but not as much on the right to the point where in my previous 3 boots, I’ve never needed to have the right side adjusted and have not had knee pain. Off ice, my knee tracks normally.

Does anyone know what’s going on?

Hello! I think I may have some information that may potentially help, although I am not sure to what degree. So it is completely possible that the way that very particular boot fits your foot that your foot may not sit naturally and your knee may not bend biomechanically "correct" that is to say knee bends properly over your toe. It does happen often that any given boot (it's not necessarily a defect, more of individual boot discrepancies) doesn't let a foot sit in a mechanically optimal position and we often see this with people who naturally pronate. This can be seen if you stand in front of a mirror an look at the tracking of your knee over you foot and you bend. If it falls to your "inside edge" as you bend and you have a natural pronation to your foot then you may need a shim put in between your boot and blade to force your foot to supinate to a natural position that allows your knee to track more optimally. This can actually be calculated to a very precise degree to see what exact angle your blade needs to be canted to to achieve this knee tracking optimization. Unfortunately the only technician I know of that provides this service is Bruce Hurd with Living On The Edge pro shop located in the World Arena in Colorado Springs, CO. He is able to measure the exact angle your foot needs to be canted to for optimal biomechanical balance and then puts that data into a software program that can generate a sort of wedge or shim that is 3D printed out of high quality material that is mounted between your boot and blade. This allows your leg to balance in an optimal position over your edge, granting you greater control over your edges if you have what we call a valgus angulation to your knee when you bend due to pronation. Those are just fancy words to say that if your foot collapses towards your big toe then your knee follows suit and also collapses inwards as well
I hope this information was at least somewhat helpful, let me know if you have any questions!

 

[Coach Aimee]

Have you looked into Jackson Ultima Supreme Insoles? They can really help with pronation. I've suggested them to many of my skaters, including hockey skaters, and they love them!

 

[tstop4me]

I’ve been skating for a year and am on my 4th pair of boots.

Four pairs within a year is highly unusual. What's the back story here, in case it's relevant to what's going on with your current boots?

And I don’t fight my blade that much when it’s sharp but it loses sharpening quickly on the back inside edge until there’s a visible difference in edge height and you can feel it in skating and with your finger on the blade (takes about 9 hours of skating).

* What blades do you have?

* Are you using any instrument to check your edge heights? If you're just eyeballing the blade and notice "a visible difference in edge height", that would be an unusual amount of wear.

The only other thing that I’ve noticed is that the overhang of the boot on the right inside side is much more than the outside side of the same boot and there is a little bit of weird plastic warping (they’re Jackson debuts). The left boot is even on overhang past the sole on both sides.

Have you had your skate tech check out the boot for a defect?

 

[Bells]

Can you tell us you height and weight? What stuff are you working on and what boot or blade are you using? Are you using any insoles and are you working with a coach?
@Ic3Rabbit

5’1 and 143 pounds. I’m working on flip and sit + back spin (have got scratch and camel). I’ve got Jackson Debuts with a MK professional blade and the Jackson supreme insoles, the 3 degree ones as I have wide feet and yes! She’s adjusted my blade before but it didn’t take the knee tracking issue away

 

[Bells]

Four pairs within a year is highly unusual. What's the back story here, in case it's relevant to what's going on with your current boots?




* What blades do you have?

* Are you using any instrument to check your edge heights? If you're just eyeballing the blade and notice "a visible difference in edge height", that would be an unusual amount of wear.




Have you had your skate tech check out the boot for a defect?

The first pair I had to get rid of because they were half a size too big. I did fine in them until spins. They were also too soft for my weight and jumps :’) (had Jackson Elle’s) and I got tendinitis in both ankles.

The second was a freestyle which was fine for a while. It had a blade alignment issue and in the end while I could go straight and do basically everything, my foot was always supinated and I got more tendinitis flare ups. It also had damage around the ankles from twisting apparently.

The third didn’t have any issues really. I tried an Edea boot and bought it overseas in Canada from a great skate shop. They did the alignment and for the first time I got a shim in the left boot. Seriously helped so much but my foot was too wide for Edea and I cramped every session about 20 mins in. These ones had the Jackson insoles.


Blades are MK professionals.


I am eyeballing it I’ve also taken photos super zoomed in. The skate tech used some sort of magnet thing and found the end of the blade’s inside edge was lower than the outside before he sharpened it.


And not the boot itself. But that’s on my list of things to do when I get back to my home rink!

 

[thisismynewsport]

I’m not sure if you are referring to the outsole of the boots but on my Jackson Premieres there was a little gap between the outsole and the boot at the front. This never caused me any issues. But you can always take pictures are send it to Jackson yourself. In my experience they have always been very responsive through email.

Regarding the inside edge issue - are you putting on your skates properly and making sure your foot is not twisted inside? I’ve done this before in my new Edea’s and was wondering why I was skating all wonky. It turns out I didn’t even put my skates on properly. After that I was fine. I always make sure I unlace properly so I can get my foot in straight the next session.

Another possibility is the fit of your skates. How long have you had these for?

And just saw your other responses - did you ever try getting your Edea’s shaped?

 

[Bells]

Hello! I think I may have some information that may potentially help, although I am not sure to what degree. So it is completely possible that the way that very particular boot fits your foot that your foot may not sit naturally and your knee may not bend biomechanically "correct" that is to say knee bends properly over your toe. It does happen often that any given boot (it's not necessarily a defect, more of individual boot discrepancies) doesn't let a foot sit in a mechanically optimal position and we often see this with people who naturally pronate. This can be seen if you stand in front of a mirror an look at the tracking of your knee over you foot and you bend. If it falls to your "inside edge" as you bend and you have a natural pronation to your foot then you may need a shim put in between your boot and blade to force your foot to supinate to a natural position that allows your knee to track more optimally. This can actually be calculated to a very precise degree to see what exact angle your blade needs to be canted to to achieve this knee tracking optimization. Unfortunately the only technician I know of that provides this service is Bruce Hurd with Living On The Edge pro shop located in the World Arena in Colorado Springs, CO. He is able to measure the exact angle your foot needs to be canted to for optimal biomechanical balance and then puts that data into a software program that can generate a sort of wedge or shim that is 3D printed out of high quality material that is mounted between your boot and blade. This allows your leg to balance in an optimal position over your edge, granting you greater control over your edges if you have what we call a valgus angulation to your knee when you bend due to pronation. Those are just fancy words to say that if your foot collapses towards your big toe then your knee follows suit and also collapses inwards as well
I hope this information was at least somewhat helpful, let me know if you have any questions!

this is really interesting! I’ve got a shim in my left boot and that’s helped tremendously. I never thought about using it in the right because I’ve just never had to before. I’ll talk to my skate tech about that and see if he can do something about it.

If I’m ever in the US I’ll have to stop by at that pro shop!

 

[High Carbon]

this is really interesting! I’ve got a shim in my left boot and that’s helped tremendously. I never thought about using it in the right because I’ve just never had to before. I’ll talk to my skate tech about that and see if he can do something about it.

If I’m ever in the US I’ll have to stop by at that pro shop!

Jackson did start making similar shims, although I am not sure how they design them for general customers as pronation angle is as unique as the individual. But it may be worth looking into for a more available option! Best of luck!

 

[tstop4me]

Jackson did start making similar shims, although I am not sure how they design them for general customers as pronation angle is as unique as the individual. But it may be worth looking into for a more available option! Best of luck!

Hi. Just to clarify: You're talking about shims fitted between the boot and the blade. You're not talking about the Jackson Supreme insoles that are fitted between the foot and the boot. Is that correct? Thanks.

 

[High Carbon]

Hi. Just to clarify: You're talking about shims fitted between the boot and the blade. You're not talking about the Jackson Supreme insoles that are fitted between the foot and the boot. Is that correct? Thanks.

yes yes that is correct. Though I wonder what both in combination would do for a valgus knee track from pronation...

 

[High Carbon]

Hi. Just to clarify: You're talking about shims fitted between the boot and the blade. You're not talking about the Jackson Supreme insoles that are fitted between the foot and the boot. Is that correct? Thanks.

@Bells @tstop4me I HAVE TO AMMEND MYSELF! I confused my information an Jackson does not make shims, just the insoles. I confused their pronation correction using their insoles with thinking they were making shims. Either way the insoles certainly help as we see but they don't have a precise canting technology that Living On The Edge pro shop does.

 

[tstop4me]

@Bells @tstop4me I HAVE TO AMMEND MYSELF! I confused my information an Jackson does not make shims, just the insoles. I confused their pronation correction using their insoles with thinking they were making shims. Either way the insoles certainly help as we see but they don't have a precise canting technology that Living On The Edge pro shop does.

Thanks for the correction. That's what I first thought. But I wanted to check with you in case Jackson had specialty items sold only to techs.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

Have you looked into Jackson Ultima Supreme Insoles? They can really help with pronation. I've suggested them to many of my skaters, including hockey skaters, and they love them!

Hi @Coach Aimee !

I saw your recommendation on Youtube and imported the Jackson Ultima Supreme insoles here to Japan. I tend to supinate when I walk but tend to pronate when I skate, however I found that they didn't give me arch support (I have very high arches and my right foot is smaller than my left) and my sesamoid bone + plus my arch on my right foot became very painful. The insole actually worked really well in my left foot though. Is there a way to make these Jackson insoles work with my high arches, do you know? I'm 163 cm, 51 kg, skate on Edea Concerto which were fitted for my larger foot (the left), so the right skate is big for my right foot and I suspect I should've been given a size 255B instead of a 260B (my larger foot measures 24.8 cm). I went to the only official Edea dealer in the country I live in and they have a boot fitter that fitted me, recommended by my coaches.

I'm going to get custom insoles to try to deal with the sesamoid bone pain, which I've probably injured since I won't stop skating even if it hurts, and get rid of arch pain, but I really, REALLY liked how the Jackson insoles worked for my left foot, pronation was gone, I wonder why it hasn't worked for my right foot and instead caused me a world of pain (no pain before the Jackson insoles, but I really wanted help with pronation, I have to extra work to not pronate and when I don't, my skating drastically improves).