Brennan: Here's why U.S. figure skating has fallen so far
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...us-figure-skating-has-fallen-so-far/79138476/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...us-figure-skating-has-fallen-so-far/79138476/
Brennan: Why U.S. figure skating has fallen
- Thread starter Taan
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Probably going to be very unpopular, but after watching the intermediate, novice and junior feeds the state and future of the U.S program is not inspiring. I found very few "wow" skaters. Most seems to be churning through the program with gritted teeth and false smiles. I favor the pairs programs and only there did I find one male skater in the novice program who desperately needs to be separated from his lagging female pair and one female skater in juniors who shines despite a thuddingly slow male partner. The ladies program seems to be rinse and repeat - very few stood out. There is one skater in juniors who actually looks like she is enjoying herself.
For a country that has money, ice rinks and an abdundance of ambition, we are floundering on the world scene.
Thoughts?
For a country that has money, ice rinks and an abdundance of ambition, we are floundering on the world scene.
Thoughts?
A rich country with a million ice rinks does not mean squat in figure skating. How do you explain second world like Russia to dominate the past few years? Germany is very rich, and they can't churn out a decent single skater. Qatar can buy all the ice rinks in the world, and they have nil skater.
It's an increasing out of touch sport, and the US saw the light 15 years ago.
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I understand the frustration of the sport you love losing popularity, but wanting it to be more like reality TV makes me a bit queasy.
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Its always because of COP 
Yet, the sport is doing EXTREMELY well in Japan and arena's in Russia are always full these days. :confused2:
IMO its because the USFSA refused to accept this new system and thought they were big enough that they could fight it. In the end, they lost and this is the result. Their skaters are not medaling in major competitions and are falling behind other countries. Lack of successful/marketable stars = lack of interest = lack of $$$$. Now, its probably not even salvageable.
Yet, the sport is doing EXTREMELY well in Japan and arena's in Russia are always full these days. :confused2:IMO its because the USFSA refused to accept this new system and thought they were big enough that they could fight it. In the end, they lost and this is the result. Their skaters are not medaling in major competitions and are falling behind other countries. Lack of successful/marketable stars = lack of interest = lack of $$$$. Now, its probably not even salvageable.
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- Jul 9, 2014
Here's the thing.....I'm sitting here like a dog waiting for reports from an event that I would LOVE to be watching on TV. I have never paid to watch the Super Bowl or The Olympics and I'm not going to pay to watch a choppy stream on my Computer. Figure Skating is losing fans due to the frustration of not being able to find access to see it. If they're searching for an answer. I hope they take a good look in the mirror. Because they have only themselves to blame.
Look, I hate the Kardashians but, I know everything about them as they are everywhere. There are so many ways to get yourself out in the public eye and if Jenny and Dave can get themselves out into the community they way they do. I know it's possible if they get the right people in the right places. Maybe some heads need to roll until we find some people who are motivated and ready to do whatever it takes to turn things around.
In fact, I would love to see Brennan interview Jenny and Dave and get their input on this subject. I'm sure they never thought they'd become as popular as they have. Kudos to them for doing as much they have for the skating community.
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Of course nobody mentions that Ice Dancing is positively thriving in the US.
It's the Rodney Dangerfield of figure skating. At least in the US.
It's the Rodney Dangerfield of figure skating. At least in the US.
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I get it, and agree with you. I guess it's a chicken-egg situation. In Japan and Russia where skating is booming, they have stars therefore they have maximum coverage and it is indeed like reality TV, but without the unnecessary drama, cat-fights and nastiness.
Young hopefuls are given TV coverage locally and then nationally as they move up the ranks.
I just don't get the blaming of the 'new' scoring system as the source of the drop in popularity, but if the major stars of skating in America, the sports commentators, the past medalists etc. all say that COP has ruined the sport, then who is going to want to watch it? It's like shooting yourself in the foot or making a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I disagree that the scoring system is to blame. During the 6.0 system skaters were often scored higher based on reputation so the casual viewer would not understand why, for example, Bourne and Krantz constantly lost to Grishuk and Platov. Personally I think the new system puzzles the more knowledgeable fans who like to debate who deserves better PCS scores or GOEs while the casual fan appreciates knowing that the highest score wins. I also think the elimination of ordinals helps casual fans. That said, I do agree with Brennen that the Tonya/Nancy incident followed by the "orphaned Oksana" winning in Lillehammer brought many fans to the sport at a level that will never be repeated, much like Tiger Woods at his peak brought a huge ratings boost to golf. In the 90s most skaters from the 92 and 94 Olympics turned pro giving rise to the televised shows and tours. The ISU changed the rules and created the Grand Prix to allow better opportunities to make money without turning pro in the 2000s so naturally the pro tours and shows lost steam as the stars of the 90s retired. I loved figure skating in the 90s but the results of the pro competitions became so predictable, (who knows how many Kristy Yamaguchi wins I watched in field of female skaters all performing 3T, 3S and 2A) after a while even a die hard fan like me lost interest.
Agreed. Ice dance is not the traditional hot discipline for the US, but when you have teams that are doing great internationally, the least one can do is highlight that fact while being gloom and doom about our singles discipline. Kind of shows how much ice dancing is pushed aside when NBC doesn't even air one of the Shibs' programs and they won NHK.
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And it should....People, haven't we all seen "Dance Moms." As a former Dance Director, that show turns my stomach. I watched it for a season hoping it would improve but IMO, it just got worse. There are hundreds of dance studios who can get their students on TV and don't have "Adults" who scream and humiliate each other on TV. I went to a great studio in Santa Barbara, Ca. and I NEVER saw parents or our ballet teacher EVER scream at anyone.
I'm pretty sure I would rather skating in the US go away vs. watching it become like an awful reality show. Sadly for skating to become popular in the US we are going to need a lady (most popular discipline) who is consistently winning/contending gold, not just hoping for 3rd. And unfortunately we might need another Tonya/Nancy incident at an actual competition to get it back in primetime.
Oh, I so agree with both Christine - that the new system lacks drama and I think the added fun of The Cold War drama that usually played out among international judges AND her point that public understanding, except for us "sequin heads" (I laughed because I hate sequins and am male). I am an avid fan and attendee at Nationals and worlds when in US (and sometimes Canada), so I understand the system, can identify all the jumps, spins, footwork levels, etc.), and I hate that the new system forces me to calculate (in my head) what's going on...it requires more cognitive investment from me as a result and isn't as fun to watch...I can't just relax.
From a viewer's perspective, some things can change, particularly in the US, on the media coverage. I want commentators to 1) discuss and display point values for the programs at the start of each program. they do this in gymnastics and explain that a triple sukahara in an open position is more difficult than a tucked triple gaynor, for example. Perhaps a preview piece at the start, for example showing a ranking that Medeveva's base value = 34.22, Gold = 33.84, Asada's = 33.18, Miyahara 33.11 (those were completely hypothetical, but you get the point, AND 2) show the skater's running tally point values for each element live. EuroSport, Russian and Italian broadcasts I've seen on YouTube show a running total of technical element points (this was done at Russian nationals too). But, even this can be improved by showing the skater's running expected value too so the audience can get a sense.
But, Title IX is partly a cause of the decline in the US as there are now many more wonderful sporting options for girls and young women, both an array of traditional sports and all kinds of extreme new sports that are very attractive to the young. So, we lose some really great young talent to other sports at early ages. The popularity of gymnastics continues, in contrast, because we remain a world leader in both team and individual all-around. So, it's important to have stars and regular medals, so our lack of podium placements on the world and Olympic level (obviously dance is the exception) lessens the draw to TV or shows.
There are clearly many other issues (e.g., move to social media as primary media over television, so reduced viewership), but I really think the most important thing to change immediately is to eliminate judge anonymity. Judges should be accountable! The other changes I suggested, running tallies on screen, etc., need to be made in media, not skating per se.
From a viewer's perspective, some things can change, particularly in the US, on the media coverage. I want commentators to 1) discuss and display point values for the programs at the start of each program. they do this in gymnastics and explain that a triple sukahara in an open position is more difficult than a tucked triple gaynor, for example. Perhaps a preview piece at the start, for example showing a ranking that Medeveva's base value = 34.22, Gold = 33.84, Asada's = 33.18, Miyahara 33.11 (those were completely hypothetical, but you get the point, AND 2) show the skater's running tally point values for each element live. EuroSport, Russian and Italian broadcasts I've seen on YouTube show a running total of technical element points (this was done at Russian nationals too). But, even this can be improved by showing the skater's running expected value too so the audience can get a sense.
But, Title IX is partly a cause of the decline in the US as there are now many more wonderful sporting options for girls and young women, both an array of traditional sports and all kinds of extreme new sports that are very attractive to the young. So, we lose some really great young talent to other sports at early ages. The popularity of gymnastics continues, in contrast, because we remain a world leader in both team and individual all-around. So, it's important to have stars and regular medals, so our lack of podium placements on the world and Olympic level (obviously dance is the exception) lessens the draw to TV or shows.
There are clearly many other issues (e.g., move to social media as primary media over television, so reduced viewership), but I really think the most important thing to change immediately is to eliminate judge anonymity. Judges should be accountable! The other changes I suggested, running tallies on screen, etc., need to be made in media, not skating per se.
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- Jul 9, 2014
We MUST understand something about the Tonya and Nancy thing. It became a big deal because they were both Champions. If this had happened between two middle of the pack skaters it would have blown over in a week. I will always feel sorry for Nancy. However, people seem to forget that Maria Butyrskaya had her car Fire Bombed and here in the US, it didn't make the news outside of figure skating and most young skaters have never heard about it. We don't need scandal, we need drama and they are two very different things.
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Ahh the annual witty Christine Brennan "What's Wrong With Skating...Where's the Next Scandal I Can Exploit?" article. This has become tired and predictable. I wish she would find something original to write. It's almost like she's trying to sabatoge the sport by writing her annual Nationals column where she perpetually pines for 6.0 to come back; for the next US ice princess who will succeed Kwan to come along, become America's sweetheart and make the cover of a Wheaties box; or for some corrupt Cold War era judge to come creeping out to wrong some poor innocent American as if the Iron Curtain still existed. Then she'd feel like we were safely back in the good old days when America was number one at EVERYTHING!!! What a backward looking joke.
6.0 was also never one set system as people prefer to remember. It went through multiple scoring changes as well, including a longstanding points based system which predated the factored placement system most people remember so nostalgicly. It kept being changed to give audiences or federations the winner they wanted.
She writes from such a skewed, jingoistic, singles (hint... ladies), America-centric point of view. So dishonest in how she frames her articles and arguments. Talk about cherrypicking your sources to get the result you want. Uncle Dick actively campaigned against IJS to the point that Speedy banned him from calling Worlds for ABC. Boitano hasn't called competitive skating in 20 years and has never coached in IJS. Weiss has called IJS programs, so if he was claiming ignorance as the article suggests, he was either being disingenuous or hasn't been paying close enough attention to how it works. Like IJS or not, she could at least get quotes from experts who actually know the system. It's like trying to to get William Faulker to explain how to tweet.
As for ratings being in decline, NOTHING in US television gets the ratings shows did 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. There are simply too many other things to watch and do. Young people largely don't even watch, pay for or own TV in the numbers that people over 40 do. Of course ratings are down. They would be down even if Kwan had been cloned and was going for her 20th national title.
Skating fans in other countries, causal or otherwise, understand IJS much better the Americans IMO. The fault for that lies at the feet of USFS and US TV networks who never invested enough time in learning it themselves, much less educating the public. IJS wasn't used at Nationals until the last possible moment, 2006. Casual fans who only watch nationals during Olympic years were thrown into the deep end when all of a sudden it was in use and no one on US TV could explain it. Youtube has proven that audiences in other countries benefited from commentary that was far more educated in 2006 the what the US had to suffer through. Commentators at ABC, other than Tracy Wilson and Suzie Wynn, were pretty much clueless about how to call IJS programs. Once NBC took over the rights, there really was no hope left of getting quality commentary. It's almost always been oversimplified nonsense crammed into the shortest poosible time slot.
6.0 was also never one set system as people prefer to remember. It went through multiple scoring changes as well, including a longstanding points based system which predated the factored placement system most people remember so nostalgicly. It kept being changed to give audiences or federations the winner they wanted.
She writes from such a skewed, jingoistic, singles (hint... ladies), America-centric point of view. So dishonest in how she frames her articles and arguments. Talk about cherrypicking your sources to get the result you want. Uncle Dick actively campaigned against IJS to the point that Speedy banned him from calling Worlds for ABC. Boitano hasn't called competitive skating in 20 years and has never coached in IJS. Weiss has called IJS programs, so if he was claiming ignorance as the article suggests, he was either being disingenuous or hasn't been paying close enough attention to how it works. Like IJS or not, she could at least get quotes from experts who actually know the system. It's like trying to to get William Faulker to explain how to tweet.
As for ratings being in decline, NOTHING in US television gets the ratings shows did 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. There are simply too many other things to watch and do. Young people largely don't even watch, pay for or own TV in the numbers that people over 40 do. Of course ratings are down. They would be down even if Kwan had been cloned and was going for her 20th national title.
Skating fans in other countries, causal or otherwise, understand IJS much better the Americans IMO. The fault for that lies at the feet of USFS and US TV networks who never invested enough time in learning it themselves, much less educating the public. IJS wasn't used at Nationals until the last possible moment, 2006. Casual fans who only watch nationals during Olympic years were thrown into the deep end when all of a sudden it was in use and no one on US TV could explain it. Youtube has proven that audiences in other countries benefited from commentary that was far more educated in 2006 the what the US had to suffer through. Commentators at ABC, other than Tracy Wilson and Suzie Wynn, were pretty much clueless about how to call IJS programs. Once NBC took over the rights, there really was no hope left of getting quality commentary. It's almost always been oversimplified nonsense crammed into the shortest poosible time slot.
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I'm okay with the point system however I'd like them to post the scores from the judges with their flag again like the 6.0 system had. Kind of like Diving and Skiing disciplines. ( I think skiing still does..?) Points dont mean a ton to people when you see one over all number. If you see all the numbers and then the total it makes it easier for the fan base to see what is going on. Plus if they judging is done properly, why do you have to be anonymous anyways?
Another factor in skating is I think the media is not broadcasting nor hyping it up like it used to. The Canadian nationals are on and senior events starting (American too) and I think I have seen 2 commercials for it. Although honestly I don't watch a lot of tv but it isn't covered like it used to. TSN in Canada only broadcasted long programs for all ISU Grand Prix events this year except Skate Canada International, they did both and Grand Prix Final.
Another factor in skating is I think the media is not broadcasting nor hyping it up like it used to. The Canadian nationals are on and senior events starting (American too) and I think I have seen 2 commercials for it. Although honestly I don't watch a lot of tv but it isn't covered like it used to. TSN in Canada only broadcasted long programs for all ISU Grand Prix events this year except Skate Canada International, they did both and Grand Prix Final.
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Still, it is understandable that people long for Faulkner in a Twitter world.
Personally, I think the whole thing about "IJS is hard to understand; USFS and NBC should explain it better on TV" is sort of missing the point. The casual audience knows that you get points for doing certain tricks and then you get points for "artistic expression." Whoever gets the most points wins. What's hard to understand about that?
The real question, in my mind, about the IJS is whether or not it is responsible for producing paint-by-the-numbers programs that are unlovely and uninteresting. It does seem like the IJS encourages busy but ugly spins, busy footwork and transitions that contribute nothing of value to the program, etc.
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