Charlie Bilodeau explains his retirement : Olympics, injuries, mental health and a new balanced life

[theblade]

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinions, @4everchan, but I do come from the flip side of the partnering equation. For what it's worth, my projection is an opinion, just like anyone else's is. But my projection comes from my lifetime in the sport, plus my kid's experience of training at elite facilities as well, in multiple states, albeit at a lower level than senior. Due to chasing ice, we have been observers on the sidelines of some of the country's (and world's) top competitors in all four disciplines. (When commenting on this board, great pains are taken to not speak in specifics because coaches and skaters have the absolute right to train in privacy.)

It's precisely because Lubov and Charlie were grown-ups and already familiar with the cycle of training at an elite level that a more clear agreement could have been reached. Perhaps at least only committing to one season up front, to see if the subsequent years felt feasible. That way perhaps Lubov would have been better prepared for a shortened partnership, even if she still had decided to take the risk of changing her job, training and living location.

My comments towards Charlie have been fair and empathetic. And yes, training versus competing are two different sides of the coin, and a skater can't know how they're feeling until the season progresses.

The point still stands: in this sport, more females are subject to the career-making decisions of males partners than the other way around. It's incredibly hard to be in such a position and financially, it doesn't really make any sense. More care needs to be taken to respect the sacrifices of the female partner.

Although these events are now in the past, it is a valuable case study for potential pairs. This experience can better inform current and future skaters about the potential issues that affect a partnership. Definitely more needs to be discussed in terms of setting shorter-term expectations, even - perhaps especially - for elite skaters in new partnerships. Also, skating feds need to establish a best-case scenario protocol that can guide skaters/coaches on how to dissolve a partnership with better feelings all-around. That would be a positive outcome from this skating journey.

 

[4everchan]

The point still stands: in this sport, more females are subject to the career-making decisions of males partners than the other way around. It's incredibly hard to be in such a position and financially, it doesn't really make any sense. More care needs to be taken to respect the sacrifices of the female partner.

Although these events are now in the past, it is a valuable case study for potential pairs. This experience can better inform current and future skaters about the potential issues that affect a partnership. Definitely more needs to be discussed in terms of setting shorter-term expectations, even - perhaps especially - for elite skaters in new partnerships. Also, skating feds need to establish a best-case scenario protocol that can guide skaters/coaches on how to dissolve a partnership with better feelings all-around. That would be a positive outcome from this skating journey.

Perhaps it's worth debating that topic in a specific thread. It's not fair to use Charlie's situation. He is not the only male skater in the sport. He has also had a very long and steady partnership with Julianne, unlike some skaters who have gone through multiple partners, even skating for different countries.

 

[2sk8]

...

The point still stands: in this sport, more females are subject to the career-making decisions of males partners than the other way around. It's incredibly hard to be in such a position and financially, it doesn't really make any sense. More care needs to be taken to respect the sacrifices of the female partner.

Although these events are now in the past, it is a valuable case study for potential pairs. This experience can better inform current and future skaters about the potential issues that affect a partnership. Definitely more needs to be discussed in terms of setting shorter-term expectations, even - perhaps especially - for elite skaters in new partnerships. Also, skating feds need to establish a best-case scenario protocol that can guide skaters/coaches on how to dissolve a partnership with better feelings all-around. That would be a positive outcome from this skating journey.

It is so interesting to me that you say this, as I truly do not believe this is a gender-specific issue. I personally know more males that have been told they needed to pack up and move, year to year, giving up whatever stability they had been able to create, because they had to train where the girl is - younger girl, fixed housing, don't want to leave the coach, whatever. And, often, those girls decide they "just aren't that into it."

Financially, it $****, especially as the often older boys are expected to provide some support for themselves.

Your last paragraph - fully agree - this is handled SO poorly at the outset in most partnerships, and in North America, I blame the coaches and the federations for a lot of it. Coaches just replace one team with another team, collecting fees regardless, while skaters' lives and future are in the balance. More honesty upfront, discussion and agreement on actual goals, etc. upfront would be a welcome change.

 

[theblade]

Given your observations, @2sk8, it does not sound like a gender-specific issue in general. Perhaps it becomes a little more gender-specific at certain facilities, at certain times. It's very interesting to hear about what you've seen - the opposite of what I've seen. It's important to hear nuts and bolts details of the sport because so much is often left unsaid.

Charlie is not the only male skater around, of course, and he and Julianne had a strong career before it ended. But it is entirely appropriate to discuss his entire career, including how two major partnerships ended, since he was a main participant in said events.

 

[el henry]

Given your observations, @2sk8, it does not sound like a gender-specific issue in general. Perhaps it becomes a little more gender-specific at certain facilities, at certain times. It's very interesting to hear about what you've seen - the opposite of what I've seen. It's important to hear nuts and bolts details of the sport because so much is often left unsaid.

Charlie is not the only male skater around, of course, and he and Julianne had a strong career before it ended. But it is entirely appropriate to discuss his entire career, including how two major partnerships ended, since he was a main participant in said events.

And it is appropriate to say that no matter how they ended, and no matter the immediate feelings of the partners at the time, that this article is important to read and has interesting "food for thought" on skating. (ETA: and I am NOT saying the partners should not have been upset at the time or expressed their feelings. I have always supported that. )

I repeat: Charlie saved Julianne's life. This is not exaggeration. Julianne is currently (last I read) in a heartbreaking situation physically: unable to do simple tasks as a result of concussions. What would have happened with God forbid, one more concussion?

Charlie's article should not, and need not, be read through a prism of "Here's how terrible women are treated in pairs skating". That could be a very interesting thread, and there have been many articles on that, it is scarcely an unknown phenomenon. At least not in the US where we have the horrid example of Dalilah Sappenfield and her camp.

 

[karne]

I repeat: Charlie saved Julianne's life. This is not exaggeration. Julianne is currently (last I read) in a heartbreaking situation physically: unable to do simple tasks as a result of concussions. What would have happened with God forbid, one more concussion?

You and 4everchan are extremely fixated on this point. But it has only come about with hindsight and as I recall, Julianne was very upset about it at the time. Do we now excuse treating someone poorly, because in hindsight it lead to the right decision?

And regardless of whether the decision to break up with Julianne was right, he still treated Lubov very badly, and she was rightly very upset. I will repeat: mental health struggles do not give you a free pass to treat other people badly.

 

[4everchan]

You and 4everchan are extremely fixated on this point. But it has only come about with hindsight and as I recall, Julianne was very upset about it at the time. Do we now excuse treating someone poorly, because in hindsight it lead to the right decision?

And regardless of whether the decision to break up with Julianne was right, he still treated Lubov very badly, and she was rightly very upset. I will repeat: mental health struggles do not give you a free pass to treat other people badly.

you know who Charlie called when he was making his decision to retire, and before announcing it to Lubov and his coaching team? 1) His mother. 2) Julianne.

No matter how some figure skating fans insist that he is a jerk, the people near him know he is not, including Julianne whom he reached out to when he was about to make a very difficult decision. Interesting right, to know that their relationship outside the rink is still strong enough and positive enough for him to call her up in such circumstances.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

There was a trial period. Charlie took pretty much a year off to heal his injuries, refocus and try out potential partners. He loved skating with Lubov. Until he burned out. What do you all suggest? That he should have kept going despite being burned out because Lubov had made some life changes? I was super excited when Charlie and Lubov started skating together, but in the end, if it weren't a healthy endeavour for Charlie, it just couldn't work out. A partnership needs TWO strong and healthy partners. Charlie was not there mentally anymore.

There are plenty of partnerships out there that are ending perhaps prematurely or in somewhat nebulous circumstances. There is an entire thread dedicated to that. I find it rather unfair that some are throwing Charlie under the bus because he didn't "at the time" provide a full explanation about what went on with him... He has now. And it's pretty clear he couldn't continue anymore. When I read some of the posts here, I feel like no matter what he would have done, he would have been judged harshly. That's pretty unfair in my opinion.

Charlie was being disingenuous with himself. From reading his reflections, it seems to me like a lot of making excuses, being overly self-centered, and contradicting himself too. Of course, he's trying to tell the story of making mistakes and of feeling victimized as a young athlete. But at some point, particularly as adults, we all have to accept responsibility for our own choices. He took that year off, but apparently he was deluding himself rather than healing and gaining a fresh perspective. He said he did not enjoy the Olympic experience and that he didn't feel he needed to go to another Olympics, yet he still pursued that path. These kinds of conflicting emotions seem to require therapy. It's unfortunate that for whatever reason, Charlie made the choice to push forward and pursue another high profile partnership, while knowingly harboring conflicting internal emotions. I agree with @theblade's reflections.

Instead of engaging in such an overdone p.r. rollout to reveal his new partnership with Lubov, Charlie would have best served himself and Lubov by having used his time off to seek professional help before taking the step to involve her. Perhaps he could have eliminated self-doubts by skating on a trial basis (with other willing participants, who agreed to an exploratory process that might not end in a full commitment). During that year off, Charlie could have skated in simulated situations with trial partners to assess his feelings, while also receiving personal counseling. It looks like he didn't really use his time off effectively. He ended up coming back with his sights apparently still ambivalently set on the Olympics, and he chose a high profile partner in Lubov. But he wasn't being honest with himself or with Lubov, or with their coach. Even when Charlie describes the difficulty of telling Lubov and their coach about his decision to quit the partnership, he's still centering his own emotions. He isn't admitting that he created the dilemma in the first place, nor fully acknowledging the harm his actions caused. My observations are not intended to suggest that Charlie has to explain himself further. He doesn't need to explain anything. It's good that he's trying to work things through, and that he's sharing his feelings publicly. It just seems to me that in some respects, he's making excuses for his actions, and not taking full personal responsibility. Hopefully, he will continue to pursue healing. I base my opinions upon what I saw happen and upon what those involved have been willing to share.

In Lubov's case, I personally am not going to be dismissive in saying, 'Oh, she's moved on, she's fine.' I empathize with her equally. I also appreciate that she stated how she felt about what happened, and then she tried to heal without continuing to whine and to point fingers of blame publicly. I truly hope she was able to mutually resolve with Charlie any outstanding financial disputes. Clearly, Lubov desired another opportunity to train for a chance at the Olympics. She also has to accept responsibility for having that desire and for making sacrifices to pursue it that didn't pan out because she trusted someone whose motivations were ambivalent. The same goes for their coach who saw potential in the partnership because that's what he wanted to see. Perhaps he too should have asked more questions. I don't know for sure what any of their conversations were with each other, but the outcome is something for everyone to take heed from. Most importantly, leaders of the sport might learn from these star-crossed partnerships, in ways that might help others in the future.

What happened is a sad situation all around. It can't be changed, but it is a cautionary tale that everyone can learn from on many levels. In that respect, it is good to hear from both Charlie & Julianne. I am glad that they have reconciled, and I hope they will both continue to heal physically, psychologically, and emotionally. They had a magical partnership which I will always have fond memories of. It's sad to realize the fact that they probably should have ended their partnership after they won a silver medal at junior Worlds. Either that or continue with a different coach who valued them as people first, and not just as talented skaters to push ill-advisedly. I will retain fond memories of Lubov/Charlie too, and of their bright potential. I also have fond memories of Lubov/Dylan's partnership. No matter the sad endings, the good moments will stay in my skating memory.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I saw Lubov and Charlie live at Skate Canada in 2019. They seemed very promising and enthuseastic at that time. It was later in the season when it seemed Charlie's heart wasn't really in it. I thought it might be recurrent injuries, or just the grind of training, setting in when the euphoria of a new partnership started to wear off.

I actually wondered if James/Radford would follow the same trajectory, but they seemed to continue to improve as their (first?) season progressed.

From what Charlie said in his personal reflections and revelations, his heart was never really fully in it, but he was apparently confused about his emotions. He decided to push forward, without truly examining his ambivalences.

I think James/Radford's partnership and their prior careers add up to a completely different situation. In fact, J/R's partnership was not as widely embraced and accepted as Lubov/Charlie's was by fans. J/R had difficult challenges on a number of levels. They were courageous in partnering during an Olympic season. They later admitted that they had overestimated their abilities as a new partnership due to their past experiences and successes with other partners. So, it was a learning curve for them, but it was also a mutually committed partnership from the beginning. Despite huge obstacles, harsh naysayer critics, and disappointing results along the way, they continued to confide in each other, to inspire each other, to believe in each other, and to remain loyal to the commitment they made to each other and to their coaches from the start. By working hard and staying the course, they ultimately succeeded. Even had they not won a medal at Worlds, their success was in staying the course and in learning and improving incrementally, because they trusted each other and continued to believe in the reasons why they'd partnered in the first place.

It is so interesting to me that you say this, as I truly do not believe this is a gender-specific issue. I personally know more males that have been told they needed to pack up and move, year to year, giving up whatever stability they had been able to create, because they had to train where the girl is - younger girl, fixed housing, don't want to leave the coach, whatever. And, often, those girls decide they "just aren't that into it."

I suppose it's an individual situation that can go both ways. However, statistically, there are more females than males and thus males tend to have more partnership options available to them. It probably boils down to everyone in the sport prioritizing treating others fairly and respectfully in every situation. At least, that should be a goal to work toward.

you know who Charlie called when he was making his decision to retire, and before announcing it to Lubov and his coaching team? 1) His mother. 2) Julianne.

I'm not sure whether this is proof of anything. Either way, it's good that Charlie first felt the need to speak to others close to him. Ultimately, in my view, since Lubov was his current partner, she seems to be one of the most important people to have confided in first. But apparently, they hadn't established full closeness, or full trust, much less full commitment, at least on Charlie's end.

I repeat: Charlie saved Julianne's life. This is not exaggeration.

This is what Julianne has said publicly. And I'm glad for her that she's able to frame it this way. Perhaps it's helpful in her healing process. From everything Charlie has said, at the time and since then, he was prioritizing his own feelings. I'm sure he cared about Julianne, and that he was worried and traumatized about her condition. Certainly, they'd been through a great deal of difficulty together, without benefit of their coach's understanding and care for their personal needs and emotions. This was all the more reason why it might have behooved Charlie best to receive some therapeutic intervention, before ill-advisedly pursuing another partnership.

The result of Charlie splitting up with Julianne may have ultimately saved her life. But clearly, her life was and is her responsibility first and foremost. Charlie never said anything about the split being precipitated by him in order to save Julianne. I'm sure looking back he's glad that was the result. But there's no indication that was his intention at the time. He may not even have realized the full extent of her concussion injuries. He framed it publicly as needing to move on in order to find a worthy new partner. Had he been able to be honest with himself (and I'm not blaming him for that inability), he might have fully confided in Julianne at that point about his mixed emotions. Maybe then, they might have been able to mutually take a break and seek emotional counseling separately, and/or together, while Julianne also worked on physical healing.

In his recent revelations, Charlie said that his and Julianne's coach had said something to them during the Olympics which secured in his mind that he was done with their coach. Perhaps that was a good starting point for Charlie to begin confiding in Julianne. Yet, it seems he simply continued on with the coach and with his partnership with Julianne, until awkwardly and abruptly splitting after they had begun preparations for a new season.

 

[4everchan]

1)
I'm not sure whether this is proof of anything. Either way, it's good that Charlie first felt the need to speak to others close to him. Ultimately, in my view, since Lubov was his current partner, she seems to be one of the most important people to have confided in first. But apparently, they hadn't established full closeness, or full trust, much less full commitment, at least on Charlie's end.

2)
This is what Julianne has said publicly. And I'm glad for her that she's able to frame it this way. Perhaps it's helpful in her healing process. From everything Charlie has said, at the time and since then, he was prioritizing his own feelings. I'm sure he cared about Julianne, and that he was worried and traumatized about her condition. Certainly, they'd been through a great deal of difficulty together, without benefit of their coach's understanding and care for their personal needs and emotions. This was all the more reason why it might have behooved Charlie best to receive some therapeutic intervention, before ill-advisedly pursuing another partnership.

3) The result of Charlie splitting up with Julianne may have ultimately saved her life. But clearly, her life was and is her responsibility first and foremost. Charlie never said anything about the split being precipitated by him in order to save Julianne. I'm sure looking back he's glad that was the result. But there's no indication that was his intention at the time. He may not even have realized the full extent of her concussion injuries.

4) He framed it publicly as needing to move on in order to find a worthy new partner. Had he been able to be honest with himself (and I'm not blaming him for that inability), he might have fully confided in Julianne at that point about his mixed emotions. Maybe then, they might have been able to mutually take a break and seek emotional counseling separately, and/or together, while Julianne also worked on physical healing.

5
In his recent revelations, Charlie said that his and Julianne's coach had said something to them during the Olympics which secured in his mind that he was done with their coach. Perhaps that was a good starting point for Charlie to begin confiding in Julianne. Yet, it seems he simply continued on with the coach and with his partnership with Julianne, until awkwardly and abruptly splitting after they had begun preparations for a new season.

this will be my last reply to these long posts.

I have answered points to what I feel like replying to

1) I mentioned that he talked to his mother and Julianne as he needed to talk through his decision with his close ones. It is very common to do so in many circumstances... People talk to their family and friends before leaving a job or even getting a divorce. There is no rule book saying a figure skating partner must discuss with their partner FIRST before retiring.

2) What Julianne has said publicly is all that matters. The rest belongs to her. It's private. The rest of the paragraph here is mere speculation.

3) Actually, Charlie did mention that he felt it wasn't appropriate that they were asked to train more and more after injuries. So it's been said and that is why he ended the coaching relationship and ended his partnership with Julianne. He could no longer accept the way they were asked to train more and more and more when they were not feeling healthy to train.

4) Again, I believe not taking what the skaters say publicly at first value is just speculation.

5) Maybe it's lost in translation but the way Charlie expressed himself showed that he knew something was broken. That doesn't mean that it's done and over with. Sometimes, you spill tomato sauce on your favourite white shirt... You put detergent on it and you wash it and it comes out sparkling clean... then you think you are good with this shirt.. but you keep remembering that when you did spill that tomato sauce on it, you also burned yourself because it was boiling hot... so that shirt, though it is clean is no longer your favourite as it triggers bad memories.. as a matter of fact, you no longer want to wear it.

The way the article I shared reads, at least for a native speaker, is that Charlie's process took time. He meant well. He got some signs things were not working out for him physically and mentally during the new partnership. But then, he also was excited with it. He felt a new environment would ease things for him. But he finally realized that he was simply burned out and done with the sport. There is no need, in my opinion, to over-analyze what's been said and when things could have and should have been done or not done. It is what it is and again, in my opinion, there is no need for him to come out at this point with his experience... so why does he do it ? because he is finally more aware of what happened to him and believes that sharing his experience will help the sport and the young athletes.

YMMV

 

[el henry]

What Julianne and Charlie have said is what they have said, and I do them the courtesy to take what they said at face value. (and Lubov as well). I'm sure as heck not going to pretend I can read their minds

In the meantime, in this honest and interesting article, Charlie tells us:

1. Charlie has been diagnosed with ADHD and from his description, affected him greatly,

2. He never really loved skating for skating's sake, but he was good at it, and it was his job (reading between the lines)

3. When he reached the Olympics, his reaction was essentially "Is this all there is"?

4. His coaching situation was horrendous (my conclusion):
His coach forced him and Juliane to skate through injuries.
When he and Julianne made mistakes at the Olympics practice session, she said go home if you don't want to be here.

5. He does not mince words about Eteri: The worst is that the ISU named this woman coach of the year for creating machines who after four years are scrap. (my translation)

Charlie has many valid points to make. I am glad I did not miss those points.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ Yes, guys thanks. The skaters have expressed themselves. Everyone has their own views and opinions, while at the same time having a sense of compassion for everyone involved in both pairings, aside from the coach who seemed more interested in the Julianne/ Charlie pairing as skaters first, not as young people whose needs and emotions counted more than the push to win medals. And it is what it is.

Even as we sometimes lament breakups and early retirements (such as the recent D'Alessandro/Waddell split), it's important to realize that skaters sometimes wish to move on to other 'adventures,' as Natalie termed it. Apparently, she is retiring with plans to pursue a university education. I'm not sure about Bruce's plans. Perhaps all along their goal was to go as far in junior ice dance as they could. Having medaled at Junior Worlds and thus achieved a long-held goal, it's a good thing for them to decide to move on from a life in skating. It's good for skaters to know that they are allowed to have other options and don't have to continue the expense and hard work of training for sometimes elusive gains in this tough sport. Mental well-being is most important of all. Communication between partners, coaches, and parents is key.

 

[solani]

I really liked Julianne and Charlie. I think he really wanted to be very successful and he learned the hard way, that you can't always have the perfect partner. Julianne and Lubov are both very decent pair skaters, with different strengths, but they are not Aljona Savchenko.
I believe that he would have continued with Lubov, if she'd had a above 95% success rate on her solo jumps. That would have healed his mental issues in an instant. Sometimes you need the right motivation. Ask Massot.
This may sound a bit harsh, but would anybody here work that hard and earn so little, only to have to rely on an unstable partner? Honestly, I wouldn't. But I'm obviously not pair skater material and neither is Charlie.

 

[withwings]

I really liked Julianne and Charlie. I think he really wanted to be very successful and he learned the hard way, that you can't always have the perfect partner. Julianne and Lubov are both very decent pair skaters, with different strengths, but they are not Aljona Savchenko.
I believe that he would have continued with Lubov, if she'd had a above 95% success rate on her solo jumps. That would have healed his mental issues in an instant. Sometimes you need the right motivation. Ask Massot.
This may sound a bit harsh, but would anybody here work that hard and earn so little, only to have to rely on an unstable partner? Honestly, I wouldn't. But I'm obviously not pair skater material and neither is Charlie.

Totally agree- Lubov was not reliable on her solo jumps, and never has been. Her previous Russian partner Nodari Maisuradze delicately mentioned this when when his opinion about her pairing with Dylan. Also, there was one interview with Lubov and Charlie when they already trained in Montreal. In this interview on the question what is their favorite part of pair figure skating. Lubov's answer was 'doing the tricks' while Charlie in the same interview said that for him important part of figure skating is performance. I personally very strongly doubt that if they would have continued it would be a successful journey.

If Charlie did not to talk with Lubov, was not able to open his heart about his inner struggles, it was not solely his fault. In order to talk.. we all need someone who actually is able to understand and to hear us.

And, yes, indeed, Charlie and Julianne were great! A fantastic pair. Soulful skating..

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Why segue into disparaging Julianne and Lubov as pairs partners??? How do we rate Charlie as a partner in all aspects then, if it's now time to start throwing unnecessary barbs at the female halves of his pairings?

Charlie refers to some deep anxiety and emotional misgivings about competing and about the sport of figure skating altogether. His problems are centered within his own psyche. I disagree with your take that he would have continued if Lubov had been a sbs jumping ace. Only Lubov knows how she feels about her life now and about the abrupt end to her skating career. The fact that she's happily married and enjoying coaching doesn't necessarily mean she's okay with/ or completely at peace with the abrupt way her partnership with Charlie ended.

There will always be only one Aljona Savchenko, which does not mean other former established pairs ladies pale in comparison. Lubov had strengths that Aljona and Julianne did not have, just as Julianne and Aljona had individual strengths that Lubov did not have. But at this point in time, there's no need to compare these ladies' respective pairs skating talents, especially not in a negative way.

 

[solani]

Why segue into disparaging Julianne and Lubov as pairs partners??? How do we rate Charlie as a partner in all aspects then, if it's now time to start throwing unnecessary barbs at the female halves of his pairings?

Charlie refers to some deep anxiety and emotional misgivings about competing and about the sport of figure skating altogether. His problems are centered within his own psyche. I disagree with your take that he would have continued if Lubov had been a sbs jumping ace. Only Lubov knows how she feels about her life now and about the abrupt end to her skating career. The fact that she's happily married and enjoying coaching doesn't necessarily mean she's okay with/ or completely at peace with the abrupt way her partnership with Charlie ended.

There will always be only one Aljona Savchenko, which does not mean other former established pairs ladies pale in comparison. Lubov had strengths that Aljona and Julianne did not have, just as Julianne and Aljona had individual strengths that Lubov did not have. But at this point in time, there's no need to compare these ladies' respective pairs skating talents, especially not in a negative way.

That was certainly not my intention! From those three pair skaters, I personally liked Julianne the most. She was so very engaging when she was on. But that doesn't change the fact that people, especially driven people, want to achieve their goals. A former ski jumper wrote in his book, that he fell into a huge depression, because his material, his skis, weren't competitive, not fast enough. He struggled, because he wanted to stay with this manufacturer, because he was loyal, but he also saw, that he simply wasn't competitive.
I don't blame Charlie, sometimes things just don't work. Lubov knows that as well. And she also knew, that Julianne wasn't fine with the split in the beginning.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I personally liked Julianne the most. She was so very engaging when she was on. But that doesn't change the fact that people, especially driven people, want to achieve their goals. A former ski jumper wrote in his book, that he fell into a huge depression, because his material, his skis, weren't competitive, not fast enough. He struggled, because he wanted to stay with this manufacturer, because he was loyal, but he also saw, that he simply wasn't competitive.

You appear to be suggesting that Charlie split with Luba because he didn't feel their partnership was competitive enough for his own goals, despite his desire to be loyal. Charlie said he split with Luba due to his own personal anxieties, and his conflicted emotions regarding competing at all in figure skating. You also seem to be suggesting that Charlie split with Julianne because he was 'driven to achieve his goals.' According to Charlie's reflections, when he split with Julianne, he wasn't really sure whether he wanted to continue skating, but he ended up going through the motions of pursuing another partnership.

Also, IMO Julianne was a decent jumper. I don't recall her particularly having problems with jumps. She was very well-rounded and quite in sync with Charlie overall, especially early in their career. Julianne may have had issues on occasion with sbs jumps and/or throws that may have been related to injury or to a lack of training time after she began dealing with her concussion travails. Clearly, Luba had issues with sbs jumps and sometimes on throws for whatever reason, but she also had outstanding skills on everything else, especially lifts, lift positions, stretch, toe point, spins, death spirals, aesthetics, presence, etc. It's not as if Luba wasn't able to ever land jumps -- sbs jumps just weren't her forte, possibly due to nerves, technique issues, and/ or accumulated bad habits.

I don't blame Charlie, sometimes things just don't work. Lubov knows that as well. And she also knew, that Julianne wasn't fine with the split in the beginning.

No one should be blaming anyone. Everyone involved has some personal responsibility to reflect upon, no matter the differing opinions of uninvolved observers. Overall, it's just a bad case scenario and a cautionary tale that people in the sport should take heed of and learn from.

It might be helpful to not suggest that "Luba knows things just don't work." That's a rather dismissive projection. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by saying, 'Luba knew Julianne wasn't fine' with Charlie splitting up their former partnership. Everyone interested in Canadian pairs skating wondered about the Charlie/Julianne split, but no one outside Julianne's circle at that point (including Luba) would have been aware of the severity of Julianne's concussion injuries. Much less did anyone realize, except for Charlie himself, the anxiety and conflicting emotions going on within his psyche.

 

[solani]

You appear to be suggesting that Charlie split with Luba because he didn't feel their partnership was competitive enough for his own goals, despite his desire to be loyal. Charlie said he split with Luba due to his own personal anxieties, and his conflicted emotions regarding competing at all in figure skating. You also seem to be suggesting that Charlie split with Julianne because he was 'driven to achieve his goals.' According to Charlie's reflections, when he split with Julianne, he wasn't really sure whether he wanted to continue skating, but he ended up going through the motions of pursuing another partnership.

Also, IMO Julianne was a decent jumper. I don't recall her particularly having problems with jumps. She was very well-rounded and quite in sync with Charlie overall, especially early in their career. Julianne may have had issues on occasion with sbs jumps and/or throws that may have been related to injury or to a lack of training time after she began dealing with her concussion travails. Clearly, Luba had issues with sbs jumps and sometimes on throws for whatever reason, but she also had outstanding skills on everything else, especially lifts, lift positions, stretch, toe point, spins, death spirals, aesthetics, presence, etc. It's not as if Luba wasn't able to ever land jumps -- sbs jumps just weren't her forte, possibly due to nerves, technique issues, and/ or accumulated bad habits.


No one should be blaming anyone. Everyone involved has some personal responsibility to reflect upon, no matter the differing opinions of uninvolved observers. Overall, it's just a bad case scenario and a cautionary tale that people in the sport should take heed of and learn from.

It might be helpful to not suggest that "Luba knows things just don't work." That's a rather dismissive projection. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by saying, 'Luba knew Julianne wasn't fine' with Charlie splitting up their former partnership. Everyone interested in Canadian pairs skating wondered about the Charlie/Julianne split, but no one outside Julianne's circle at that point (including Luba) would have been aware of the severity of Julianne's concussion injuries. Much less did anyone realize, except for Charlie himself, the anxiety and conflicting emotions going on within his psyche.

Yes, that's basically what I think.
You wrote that no one should be blamed. But you also wrote that Charlie shouldn't have involved Lubov because of his mental struggles (that he probably wasn't aware of). You can't have it both ways.
I believe that his psychological issues are based on the fact, that his life plan didn't work out. That's what I tried to explain. With a partner of Julianne's jumping and skating skills and Lubov's everything else, he would've continued imho.
And I think he could've been great and he knows it.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

You wrote that no one should be blamed. But you also wrote that Charlie shouldn't have involved Lubov because of his mental struggles (that he probably wasn't aware of). You can't have it both ways.

I'm not trying to have anything both ways! LOL I'm looking at everything I've seen and read about this from my perspective and years of life experience, and skating fandom. Blaming anyone under any circumstances is a useless enterprise. Blaming and finger-pointing is not the same thing as thoughtfully expressing my views of what happened and what everyone involved has said. Based on what Charlie has revealed about his conflicting emotions and his ambivalent feelings toward competitive skating, for sure it would have been best had he been able to seek therapeutic counseling, instead of ambivalently deciding to pursue another high profile partnership, and then abruptly quitting before the season was over.

I believe that his psychological issues are based on the fact, that his life plan didn't work out.

We don't know what Charlie's "psychological issues are based on." It would behoove all of us to worry most about our own psyches. I've never met Charlie, and thus I don't know him personally. I'm only making observations from afar based on what happened and on what everyone involved has said. If you read closely, you will notice that Charlie said he was conflicted about participating in the sport, despite his successes with Julianne. He said that he felt "empty" at the 2018 Olympics. At this point, he is apparently still in the process of healing. For all of us, it tends to take time to understand our own behaviors, desires, anxieties, and inclinations. Life is journey, not a destination.

With a partner of Julianne's jumping and skating skills and Lubov's everything else, he would've continued imho.
And I think he could've been great and he knows it.

Charlie and Julianne were great together, and they both know it. Yet from what they've both revealed, they were pushed too hard and too much was asked of them, especially after Julianne's head injuries. Of course, Lubov & Charlie had tremendous promise as a team. But they would have only been able to realize their promise together by communicating well with each other, and being on the same page goal-wise and motivation-wise.

According to Charlie's own words, his breaking up both partnerships was not precipitated by either partner's skills and abilities. Nor was it about their weaknesses.

 

[4everchan]

Why does anyone assume that Charlie didn't consult? It's not because he has not mentioned this process that he didn't seek for help. I am not saying he did or did not but simply pointing out that making suggestions about what should have been done or not is not very helpful as there is no way for anyone of us to know the full story.

As I said before, there is very little interest at this point, after two years of Covid, Montreal worlds canceled, and the end of the Olympic cycle in how the split with Lubov happened. That's why this article is interesting to me and why I shared it. Not to rehash the same old stuff about splits... but to share his views on the sport at this point. Why not focus on that? @el henry did make a list of points she got from the article... and those points were exactly why I had shared the article. If anyone wants to discuss those points, I would be interested in reading about that.