Entries into a forward spin

[1111bm]

I have a question regarding the two common ways of entering a forward spin, step forward from a FI 3 turn vs. from a back inside edge (technically this is a choctaw, I guess).

I was just wondering, what are the benefits of each entry, and why is the back inside edge entry the classic one, that is usually taught first?

Is there some sort of „technical advantage“ of doing it this way, or is it simply considered to be easier for a beginner?

I imagine that maybe some beginners have a weak FI 3 turn or a weak BO edge and pushing off it would be more difficult for them than from a BI edge...? :think:
Then again, wouldn’t this be similar to jump entries, where some skaters will just prefer a certain entry over another, even if it isn’t the most popular or supposedly easier one? So in the beginning, why not choose the one that works best, where they manage a good FO 3 turn -> successful spin?

 

[alyssamarie]

My main coach only teaches the back inside edge way. She says it helps center the spin better, and you usually get more speed out of it. She isn't a fan of the fi3, and I am not either, but its probably since I've been doing it the BI edge way my whole life. I feel like if i do it from a fi 3 its not even close to centered and I have less speed, so I get less revolutions. With the BI edge, I have more time to set it up. But I agree that coaches should teach both ways, like they do with jump / spin direction

 

[jf12]

I would say that when you’re first learning to spin do whatever makes the spin work for you. I do think the BI edge is easier for most people to start. When you get more consistent you should work on doing many different entries. Choreographically, the back inside edge windup takes a longer time to get to than some other entries, and it kind of telegraphs the spin. In any case you don’t want to really enter a spin the same way every time if you have 3 spins in your program.

 

[coucou84]

I think that using a backward inside entry requires a longer outside edge when you push into the forward spin to get it centered, and by that I mean (how I have been taught) is to make 3/4 of a circle before pulling in (or else you find yourself doing a 3 turn and that's not good). But once you have made the whole 3/4 of a circle before pulling it or hitting the position that you want, the spin is easier to stay centered.

On a forward inside 3 turn, that edge doesn't have to be that long because there's already a little bit of a swing in the same direction as you're turning (once you're comfortable with a spin, but obviously when you start you have to make sure to do the 3/4 circle too), but staying centered is harder because you don't have the same control as you would have on a backward inside entry. Also this entry takes a lot less time to set up

That's just a personal preference and how you feel about both. I personally struggle holding that outside edge and so when I first learned to spin, I would use the backward inside, but then I would always end up doing a 3 turn and spinning on a backward inside edge, so I do all my spins with a 3 turn entry.

 

[treesprite]

That's just a personal preference and how you feel about both. I personally struggle holding that outside edge and so when I first learned to spin, I would use the backward inside, but then I would always end up doing a 3 turn and spinning on a backward inside edge, so I do all my spins with a 3 turn entry.

The basic forward acratch spin is supposed to be spinning on the back inside edge.

 

[coucou84]

The basic forward acratch spin is supposed to be spinning on the back inside edge.

Yes, but not doing circles as big as loops lol (which was what I was doing xD)

 

[Sam L]

I'm not sure what you mean by FI 3 turn entry?

I thought the classic entry was BI wind up and stepping into a FO 3 turn for normal one foot or scratch spin. And I thought FI 3 turn was for the backspin? Or I'm just confused?

 

[treesprite]

I have never done it from a FI3, but it seems to me that the step into the spin is not from the inside 3, but from a back outside mohawk after the FI3. I think it would be a lot harder to get the hip and free leg in proper position, but it might be useful for someone who tends to throw themselves into a twist over-rotating the upper body when entering the spin the usual way.

 

[gkelly]

I have never done it from a FI3, but it seems to me that the the step into the spin is not from the inside 3, but from a back outside mohawk after the FI3. I think it would be a lot harder to get the hip and free leg in proper position, but it might be useful for someone who tends to throw themselves into a twist over-rotating the upper body when entering the spin the usual way.

Yes. FI three and then step forward to FO edge to enter the spin. I preferred that entry for all but sitspins both as a teen and as an adult. I don't know why it was easier for me to control but it was/ is.

Now I'm older and less flexible and can only do upright spins any more and only from that entrance. I don't have enough hip turnout to do the BI Choctaw anymore.

 

[Sam L]

I have never done it from a FI3, but it seems to me that the step into the spin is not from the inside 3, but from a back outside mohawk after the FI3. I think it would be a lot harder to get the hip and free leg in proper position, but it might be useful for someone who tends to throw themselves into a twist over-rotating the upper body when entering the spin the usual way.

Right, I've never done it like that either. Only the BI choctaw entry.

 

[treesprite]

I guess now I am going to have to try it, after I get this cast off.

 

[silver.blades]

I'm not sure what you mean by FI 3 turn entry?

I thought the classic entry was BI wind up and stepping into a FO 3 turn for normal one foot or scratch spin. And I thought FI 3 turn was for the backspin? Or I'm just confused?

The original poster means FI 3 followed by a step forward onto the same forward outside edge you would do after the BI windup.

This entry has become super common under the COP because it's considered more difficult and also telegraphs less.

To the OP, the BI windup is easier because it has a windup that allows you to release into the rotation. This makes it much easier to get into the spinning motion. It also has the benefit of less forward momentum which makes it easier to centre than the FI 3 entry. The BI choctaw also makes it easier to lower the centre of gravity, which is really helpful for camel and sit spins.

I teach the BI edge first because it makes it much easier to train the spin motion. I save the FI 3 for when the skater is too much in their heads and needs less prep time before elements.

 

[vlaurend]

I do all my forward spins from a RFI 3-turn setup. I find it easier because I can get more curl on my LFO entrance edge from that setup. The important thing to remember when doing it this way is that you really need to look over your leading shoulder and think of creating a tighter, rounder edge with each consecutive edge: RFI, RBO, LFO. Think of creating a concentric circle with your LFO edge that starts where your RFI 3-turn exit edge ends, then takes you onto a smaller circle that goes inside your RFI 3-turn exit edge.

 

[1111bm]

Thank you everyone for your input! :thumbsup:

That's interesting how divided skaters are by which spin entry they like .

I personally prefer the FI 3 turn, because it allows me to step on the FO edge at a better angle, making the FO 3 turn easier, I guess, ...? I think to me, pushing off from a BO edge just works better than from a Bi edge...

I also hate that long wind-up of the BI edge entry, because it means less tries to practice a spin in the same amount of time (never mind saving time in a program).
And I also dislike its rhythm, because it feels so dragging (of course there are skaters that do it faster, but in general there is a tendency to drag it out) whereas the FI 3 turn feels more energetic and I feel more alert when going into the spin.

But right from the beginning, my coach has always been against the FI 3 turn entry, he would always say that it's too difficult for beginner or lower level skaters, but he couldn't explain why. I tried it anyway, on my own time, and got better results, so that's why I switched anyway.
But I've always been curious about it still, so I came here to get some further insights and opinions.