European Skating 2021-22 Season

[Skatesocs]

I'm very sad for Gutmann - because I think she deserved to make the OWG with her performances at Nebelhorn. I'd missed the LP when I was watching the event.

I'll also be very sad for Taljegard if she isn't allowed to go.

 

[Jontor]

I'm very sad for Gutmann - because I think she deserved to make the OWG with her performances at Nebelhorn. I'd missed the LP when I was watching the event.

I'll also be very sad for Taljegard if she isn't allowed to go.

Well, one of those sadnesses will go away if Taljegård not goes - Gutmann goes...

 

[anonymoose_au]

Alexander and Nikolaj's mother said in an interview that they had offered to pay all the expenses for Alexander's trip to Pyeongchang out of their own pocket, but he still wasn't allowed to go, so it's not a money issue but a public image one.

And the Swedish Olympic Committee doesn't think their public image sucks now? Seriously, they're appalling. Figure skating is practically non-existent in Australia, as is speed skating. But if our Olympic Committee had taken Sweden's approach we never would have won our first Winter Olympic medals (including our first gold, in Speed Skating of all things! It is one of our greatest sporting moments, even today nearly 20 years later people remember Steven Bradbury.)

Beyond that I can't see how Sweden should be able to send ANY athletes if that's how they act. By refusing athletes who rightfully earned a spot at the Games they're basically giving the finger to the Olympic movement and spirit. The aim of the Olympics is to compete and show your best whether you come last or win.

And that's my Ted Talk

 

[Skatesocs]

Personally, I think if maybe Taljegard's PCS had been higher at 2021 Worlds as she deserved, then maybe she'd have made the top 10 or 8... But as we know, the criticism of the judging was only hatred against a certain skater and coach, and the judging itself wasn't "unolympic". "Suck it up", as someone says.

(sad that that someone hasn't ignored me. or maybe their powers of finding ways to give incoherent ted talks shouldn't be underestimated)

 

[chasingneverland]

Personally, I think if maybe Taljegard's PCS had been higher at 2021 Worlds as she deserved, then maybe she'd have made the top 10 or 8... But as we know, the criticism of the judging was only hatred against a certain skater and coach, and the judging itself wasn't "unolympic". "Suck it up", as someone says.

(sad that that someone hasn't ignored me. or maybe their powers of finding ways to give incoherent ted talks shouldn't be underestimated)

She would have needed Anna's PCS. If she had Anna's PCS she would have barely been 8th. (Barely enough for Sweden to justify her spot.) Keep in mind, Anna's PCS were 5 points higher than anyone else's (including Liza, Sasha, Rika, Karen, etc.). If she had Rika/Liza/Sasha/Karen PCS she would have been around 10th or 11th, which is too low for Sweden's impossible standards.

 

[Skatesocs]

She would have needed Anna's PCS.

If the judging, overall, had been better - for instance, certain combinations of 2 fall/no combo programs not getting 34+66 PCS, or Kihira getting 69 PCS for what she delivered in the LP, then yes. She might have made the top 10 or 8. Taljegard deserved to be in the top 3 for PCS. Doesn't matter what the judges "thought" about her or Anna's PCS or somebody else's PCS, and who else's PCS she might or might not have needed according to the judges. You can't set what has been incorrectly written on a piece of paper and compare it with what it should have been and say both things should be happening at the same time.

 

[chasingneverland]

If the judging, overall, had been better - for instance, certain combinations of 3 fall programs not getting 34+66 PCS, or Kihira getting 69 PCS for what she delivered in the LP, then yes. She might have made the top 10 or 8. Taljegard deserved to be in the top 3 for PCS. Doesn't matter what the judges "thought" about her or Anna's PCS or somebody else's PCS, and who else's PCS she might or might not have needed according to the judges. You can't set what has been incorrectly written on a piece of paper and compare it with what it should have been and say both things should be happening at the same time.

I didn't say that.

I was pointing out the level of federation support that that would have required. Frankly even top 3 probably wouldn't have been enough, as Sasha or Rika's PCS (and federation support) wouldn't have given her top 8.

Frankly, her SP BV was 27th (out of 37 skaters) (essentially on par with Sasha's and she missed her combo). All the federation support in the world couldn't get Sasha into the top 10 and they wouldn't have with her either - that's not a judging concern. Her FS BV was 21st (out of 24 skaters) - essentially 9-10 points too low for a top 10 FS. Rika's disaster of a FS with it's two downgrades and underrotations and complete mess of compositions (plus a fall) outscores her by 4 points in BV and 1 point in TES. Her BV is almost the exact same as Satoko's (whom I love) FS disaster.

It's not just her PCS that are holding her back. It's her tech. I love her - and want soo soo much to see her at the Olympics - but she isn't a top 8 skater (even with Rus level political backing). The judging needed to be better - and it still does - but that's not why she isn't in the top 8. After all, it isn't the overscored Anna, Sasha, Liza, Rika, Karen, and Bradie that she needed to catch for a top 8 finish. (Bradie didn't even make top 8 anyway.)

 

[norwegianfairytale]

The Swedish OGC must rethink the requirements and adjust it to different sports. It´s incredible difficult to even get a OG spot in figure skating, that should be enough.

Just to put things into perspective: Josefin scores would make a 8th place in 2013 and 2015 WC. But it´s not enough in 2020. She even holds the international record of a Swedish lady.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I hope someone works with Paganini on her spins. Just because she isn't super flexible or have a flexible bendy back doesn't mean they can't be faster and more centered.

 

[Alegria]

She would have needed Anna's PCS. If she had Anna's PCS she would have barely been 8th. (Barely enough for Sweden to justify her spot.) Keep in mind, Anna's PCS were 5 points higher than anyone else's (including Liza, Sasha, Rika, Karen, etc.). If she had Rika/Liza/Sasha/Karen PCS she would have been around 10th or 11th, which is too low for Sweden's impossible standards.

All this top girls had higher PCS then they deserve. If she skated for Russia or USA she would get higher points for everything.

 

[Skatesocs]

All this top girls had higher PCS then they deserve. If she skated for Russia or USA she would get higher points for everything.

Right. The 2021 worlds is very farcical in terms of judging. You only need to take one look at what kind of skating was propped up in order to see that.

But either way. What is done is done. I do hope in the future there is somewhat better judging. Because certain committees' ridiculous policies need only be criticized after we criticize the judging. I'd say corrupt judging will always be more "unolympic" than whatever policy a nation might have (see also: Gutmann not being able to make the OWG due to poor judging, IMO). Or at least we can hope that we don't read how criticism of judging is equivalent to death threats

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Czech Republic’s Olympic Team:

Women: Eliška Březinová
Men: Michal Březina
Pairs: Elizaveta Zhuk / Martin Bidař
Ice Dance: Natálie Taschlerová / Filip Taschler

https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1442432886070644736

 

[DenissVFan]

Josefin and Nikolaj might have an easier time going to the Olympics to compete in half-pipe skiing under a different flag than as actual elite figure skaters representing Sweden:

 

[alexocfp]

I certainly applaud Sweden for wanting to be competitive and not want waning to send someone to get embarrassed score wise, but as I said earlier, they attempted to qualify for the Olympics with an athlete they themselves sent.

Why bother to qualify in the first place, especially with a skater who they know what she can and can’t do?

When said athlete qualified, they then said in effect forget what you just saw.

Look, they could easily have said we don’t think enough of our skaters to fund them to go to the Olympics and so if we qualify, they have to pay for the trip out of their own pocket.

The Swedish fed has done a lot of things wrong here but at least there are honest about what they think of their current skaters.

I prefer honesty to pretending they are overjoyed. Got to give them credit for that at least.

It also helps the skaters that become sympathetic figures in the skating community and might lead to them getting outside the fed funding by angered fans and observers.

Had it been me, I would have milked this angle dry. Might as well try to monetize it. Haha

 

[pete]

I certainly applaud Sweden for wanting to be competitive and not want waning to send someone to get embarrassed score wise, but as I said earlier, they attempted to qualify for the Olympics with an athlete they themselves sent.

Why bother to qualify in the first place, especially with a skater who they know what she can and can’t do?

When said athlete qualified, they then said in effect forget what you just saw.

Look, they could easily have said we don’t think enough of our skaters to fund them to go to the Olympics and so if we qualify, they have to pay for the trip out of their own pocket.

The Swedish fed has done a lot of things wrong here but at least there are honest about what they think of their current skaters.

I prefer honesty to pretending they are overjoyed. Got to give them credit for that at least.

It also helps the skaters that become sympathetic figures in the skating community and might lead to them getting outside the fed funding by angered fans and observers.

Had it been me, I would have milked this angle dry. Might as well try to monetize it. Haha

It's the swedish olympic committee that has those rules not the swedish skating federation. I'm sure the swedish fed was delighted how well Josefin did at worlds

 

[el henry]

I certainly applaud Sweden for wanting to be competitive and not want waning to send someone to get embarrassed score wise, but as I said earlier, they attempted to qualify for the Olympics with an athlete they themselves sent.

Why bother to qualify in the first place, especially with a skater who they know what she can and can’t do?

When said athlete qualified, they then said in effect forget what you just saw.

Look, they could easily have said we don’t think enough of our skaters to fund them to go to the Olympics and so if we qualify, they have to pay for the trip out of their own pocket.

The Swedish fed has done a lot of things wrong here but at least there are honest about what they think of their current skaters.

I prefer honesty to pretending they are overjoyed. Got to give them credit for that at least.

I agree, why send them at all to qualify or why not let them self fund? And it doesn’t help that Josefin is such a joy to watch.

so many feds are honestly overjoyed to send a qualifying athlete to the Olympics and would honestly never be embarassed by their scores, however “low”. I prefer that attitude to that of the Swedish fed, (ETA: make that Swedish Olympic Committee) if they are in fact somehow “embarrassed“ by such a high score and placement at a Challengers comp, but they’re gonna do what they’re gonna do. And it’s sad for the hardworking athletes.

 

[Skatesocs]

I certainly applaud Sweden for wanting to be competitive and not want waning to send someone to get embarrassed score wise, but as I said earlier, they attempted to qualify for the Olympics with an athlete they themselves sent.

Look, they could easily have said we don’t think enough of our skaters to fund them to go to the Olympics and so if we qualify, they have to pay for the trip out of their own pocket.

The Swedish Olympic Committee are the ones who have this policy. The skating fed sent whom they did. And I think the Swedish Skating Federation and its skaters are entitled to proper judging and accurate assessment of her abilities. If that had happened, maybe the SOK would have known she had great potential

I agree though that if the athlete is offering to pay, then they should let them. Different from other committees and federations who end up defunding athletes because they don't see potential in them - when the scoring tells them so, of course - because they're running dry. But some money matters more than some other.

It also helps the skaters that become sympathetic figures in the skating community and might lead to them getting outside the fed funding by angered fans and observers.

And how this matters for some countries and skaters and coaches... more than some others.

 

[DenissVFan]

It's the swedish olympic committee that has those rules not the swedish skating federation. I'm sure the swedish fed was delighted how well Josefin did at worlds

Yes, they were sent to Worlds by the Swedish Figure Skating Association (and Worlds have higher technical score requirements than the Olympics). It's the Swedish Olympic Committee that thinks they aren't good enough (despite them getting spots and having much higher technical scores than required by the ISU for that event).

 

[DenissVFan]

For reference:

minimum technical scores for Worlds:

men: SP - 34.00, FS - 64.00
women: SP - 30.00, FS - 51.00

minimum technical scores for the Olympics (the latest version I found):

men: SP - 28.00, FS - 46.00
women: SP - 23.00, FS - 40.00

So to even qualify for Worlds and try to get an Olympic spot before Nebelhorn you have to significantly surpass the standards the ISU finds Olympic-worthy.

Now let’s have a look at Nikolaj’s and Josefin’s best technical scores (I don’t know if they scored higher at some competition not counting towards SB - I’m just using their best segment scores listed by the ISU):

Nikolaj:

SP TES: 39.05 (2021 World Championships)
FS TES: 74.33 (2020 Nebelhorn Trophy)

Josefin:

SP TES: 32.98 (2021 World Championships)
FS TES: 57.85 (2021 World Championships)

They wouldn’t show up and do crossovers at the Olympics. Nikolaj exceeded the ISU’s Olympic standards by 11.05 and 28.33 points, and Josefin – by 9.98 and 17.85 points.

 

[Seven Sisters]

I too enjoy Josefin’s skating and hope that the Swedish authorities will allow her to claim the place she has earned at the Olympics. Placing 15th out of all the ladies skaters in the World last season should be sufficient proof of her ability to compete against the sport’s best.

As far as I can see, she has not been invited to any Grand Prix events this year. I call on all the host federations to consider naming Josefin to any GP slot that becomes available due to WD, etc (such as Tursynbaeva’s)

If Josefin should get a GP opportunity and do well, it would only support her case. In fact—just naming her to fill an open slot, would show that other federations believe in her as well.