Hanyu's technical viewpoints on judging and the path sport taking

[GoldenWind]

It is clear why he is stating this as the ideal victory- because it leaves no room for doubt or 'ambiguity' as he puts it, not for the sake of gloating over an obliterated competition.
Obviously he wants it to be such that it cannot be attributed to sheer luck, and no doubts can be cast by wondering if this or that disaster had not happened during skater X's skate, or if this or that had been scored correctly someone else would have won (an example of the latter is what is often said about Alina's win over Evgenia at the Olympics. Compare this to Trusova's current win, which, despite debates about PCS, she would still have won because of the margin), which may or may not be true.
That is why he thinks both the gap and the clean skates of competitors are necessary.
And also why he thinks the 2015 GPF is the closest he has gotten, despite, as he himself said, his runner ups not being totally clean in both SP and LP.

As to the scores, which, as others have pointed out before, he is often made to analyze not only his performance, but also his protocols in interviews, and he does so quite frankly. There is nothing wrong with pointing out if there is something here or there that he disagrees with- why must he keep it to himself just because he wins alot? If you disagree with his assessment, that is fair enough, but calling it 'griping' is another thing.

Lastly, the comparison made to comments people make on forums is not to accuse commenters of being unsportsmanlike in the same way skaters, when they are just onlookers.
It is to point out that there will always be schools of thought which, validly or otherwise, will cast doubt on a skater's win over another.

The aim here is not to humiliate anybody.
Besides which there is no reason why any skater should be 'humiliated' by a large margin of victory if they indeed skated their best. It obviously just means whoever came in first did something out of the ordinary.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

“Obviously he wants it to be such that it cannot be attributed to sheer luck, and no doubts can be cast by wondering if this or that disaster had not happened during skater X's skate, or if this or that had been scored correctly someone else would have won... That is why he thinks both the gap and the clean skates of competitors are necessary. ”

You make fair points but this is extrapolating. I’m going by what he specifically said in the interview in response to the question (and under the assumption that the subtitles are accurate). If this was “obviously what he wants” then he should have simply said something to that effect “I want to skate well enough that no matter how well others skate, it’s still enough to win.”

Calling the GPF a “resounding victory” (even if it was the truth or him just being honest) was absolutely unnecessary. If Fernandez/Chen ever referred to his 2016/2019 Worlds win as a resounding victory or pointed out the huge margin of victory over Hanyu/the field, I am certain that some people defending Hanyu’s commanding lead/resounding victory comments would suddenly condemn Fernandez/Chen for being a sore winner. (And for balance, had Chan expressed his satisfaction in a resounding margin of victory over Kozuka/the rest of the field in 2011 Worlds, I would have absolutely called him a sore winner.)

Re: the humiliation part... indicating that you had a commanding lead/resounding victory is IMO humiliating to your opponents because it’s not just indicating you won by a lot but also pointing out that they lost by a lot.

(Also, “Griping” by definition is expressing disapproval/grumbling about something... e.g. Hanyu griping about deserving more points after already winning and by a lot. Or me griping about Hanyu’s comments. )

 

[Elspeth]

“Obviously he wants it to be such that it cannot be attributed to sheer luck, and no doubts can be cast by wondering if this or that disaster had not happened during skater X's skate, or if this or that had been scored correctly someone else would have won... That is why he thinks both the gap and the clean skates of competitors are necessary. ”

You make fair points but this is extrapolating. I’m going by what he specifically said in the interview in response to the question (and under the assumption that the subtitles are accurate). If this was “obviously what he wants” then he should have simply said something to that effect “I want to skate well enough that no matter how well others skate, it’s still enough to win.”

Calling it a “resounding victory” (even if it was) was unnecessary.

If Fernandez/Chen ever referred to his 2016/2019 Worlds win as a resounding victory or pointed out the huge margin of victory over Hanyu/the others, I am absolutely certain that some people defending Hanyu’s commanding lead/resounding victory comments would suddenly condemn Fernandez/Chen for being a sore winner.

(Griping is expressing disapproval/grumbling about something... e.g. Hanyu griping about deserving more points after already winning and by a lot. Or me griping about Hanyu’s comments. )

Funnily enough, a "resounding victory" is almost exactly how Hanyu described Nathan's victory over him in 2019

 

[GoldenWind]

I am taking it from this statement when asked about the commanding lead : No matter what anyone says, whatever the assumptions "I can win".
To me it's pretty clear, but I suppose others can interpret it differently if they want to.

Ad to the resounding victory, however you think he should have more appropriately said it, from his translated comment, is neither here nor there- the intent is the same.
Besides which, his pointing out the large margin or resounding victory was to give an example of something close to the scenario he has described, in keeping with the topic at hand, not to gloat over his competitors.

As to the hypothetical scenario of people accusing whoever of being a sore winner, I am not sure what I shall do with that. People have said they don't see it as unsportsmanlike behaviour- if you are certain they would no an about-face for someone else, there is nothing I can say to that, but it doesn't really counteract the arguments they have made about their stance in this situation.

 

[Interspectator]

I am taking it from this statement when asked about the commanding lead : No matter what anyone says, whatever the assumptions "I can win".
To me it's pretty clear, but I suppose others can interpret it differently if they want to.

Ad to the resounding victory, however you think he should have more appropriately said it, from his translated comment, is neither here nor there- the intent is the same.
Besides which, his pointing out the large margin or resounding victory was to give an example of something close to the scenario he has described, in keeping with the topic at hand, not to gloat over his competitors.

As to the hypothetical scenario of people accusing whoever of being a sore winner, I am not sure what I shall do with that. People have said they don't see it as unsportsmanlike behaviour- if you are certain they would no an about-face for someone else, there is nothing I can say to that, but it doesn't really counteract the arguments they have made about their stance in this situation.

Exactly, it may not be clear in English, but that's how it is in the original.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Funnily enough, a "resounding victory" is almost exactly how Hanyu described Nathan's victory over him in 2019

Eeee that’s a bit hard on himself. He still skated superbly and cleared 300!

But it’s one thing for a second place finisher to acknowledge (or even gripe ) that they lost by a wide margin... and another thing when the winner points that out.

 

[GoldenWind]

As to the griping, I normally take it as 'grumbling'- it seems to give a certain negative connotation when used, which is why I disagreed because I didn't see it as unreasonable grumble, just pointing out a disagreement. In any case, my main point was that, disagreeing with some protocols here and there have nothing to do with whether you have won or not. I suppose your take is that if someone had already won, and by a large margin, they should not voice any disagreements with their protocols when talking about them. That is fair enough, but personally, I don't see it that way.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

As to the griping, I normally take it as 'grumbling'- it seems to give a certain negative connotation when used, which is why I disagreed because I didn't see it as unreasonable grumble, just pointing out a disagreement. In any case, my main point was that, disagreeing with some protocols here and there have nothing to do with whether you have won or not. I suppose your take is that if someone had already won, and by a large margin, they should not voice any disagreements with their protocols when talking about them. That is fair enough, but personally, I don't see it that way.

Thanks for clarifying. Agree to disagree.

 

[yume]

Personally, i can't wait for his next resounding, bossy victory.

 

[1111bm]

I wouldn’t say they’re all the same. He does stick to a particular lyrical style but he does branch out a bit in terms of program types like Let’s Go Crazy and Seimei (which I would absolutely call an iconic program, not just for him but for figure skating in general... similar to Brown’s Riverdance). He’s definitely not as versatile/animated as a skater like Brown or Takahashi, and I wish he would do more competitive programs with more personality/character/charm, like LGC, but it’s not really his brand. I find that with Shoma as well - it would be a bit odd (albeit refreshing) to see a program that’s a bit quirkier.

Exactly, if I got to decide, I personally would also love to see more programs in the vein of PW and LGC from him, knowing that he's very much capable of doing them.

Not that he's not good at that lyrical style of his, but it's not as exciting or unique as those programs. This is also the reason why I was kinda disappointed when he debuted Otonal and Origin, which both feel like Chopin and Seimei version 2.0 respectively. And he's already repeated those 2-3 times, and now he's repeating Otonal and Origin for another season as well... so yeah, all of it does feel same-ish. Which is not to say that I don't enjoy those programs, they just don't scream versatility to me or like he's challenging himself artistically. His skating is obviously more about perfecting variants of what he's already good at.

(and yes, Shoma... sigh. I guess his SP this season is finally, in some ways at least, a departure from his usual style. His FS otoh... not so much)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Exactly, if I got to decide, I personally would also love to see more programs in the vein of PW and LGC from him, knowing that he's very much capable of doing them.

Not that he's not good at that lyrical style of his, but it's not as exciting or unique as those programs. This is also the reason why I was kinda disappointed when he debuted Otonal and Origin, which both feel like Chopin and Seimei version 2.0 respectively. And he's already repeated those 2-3 times, and now he's repeating Otonal and Origin for another season as well... so yeah, all of it does feel same-ish. Which is not to say that I don't enjoy those programs, they just don't scream versatility to me or like he's challenging himself artistically. His skating is obviously more about perfecting variants of what he's already good at.

(and yes, Shoma... sigh. I guess his SP this season is finally, in some ways at least, a departure from his usual style. His FS otoh... not so much)

Yeah, he's kinda settled into this soft classical SP + intense epic LP formula -- I'm half expecting next season to be a Swan Lake SP + Firebird LP (please don't!). It doesn't help that by paying homage to both Weir and Plushenko, neither program quite feels like him (and not just because the music is the same). What I loved most about Parisian Walkways/Seimei/Let's Get Crazy when he first did them was they felt original and personal, and would love for him to try stuff like that again.

I do understand the rationale for repeating Otonal/Origin though (thanks for the video link). It's clearly allowed him to focus on getting a greater comfort level with his elements again. Although next year is still some time before the Olympic cycle, he can afford to experiment more and take more risks in terms of program concepts/characters.

Thanks for the reminder! I hadn't seen Uno's programs this year! Definitely quirkier and different for him. In the SP, his movements are still kinda Uno-esque though and I'd love to see him be less "graceful" and experiment more with body shapes and more staccato movements throughout the program like he does at the end of his footwork. Not a great skate with the falls, but def a program with potential. FS is a bit meh - choreo isn't quite connected enough to the music - and isn't working for me yet but I like how it does show a more sensitive side of him, but you're right - it's kinda same old (like I watched it thinking how well someone like Jason Brown would interpret it).

The rest of the field is bringing unpredictable programs to the table. Brown always brings something interesting and his level of refinement and artistry is hands down (for me) the best out there (SL is a masterpiece in the making). Kolyada and Chen are clearly pushing themselves in terms of exhibiting more personality. And even in not-so-established skaters like Rizzo/Aymoz we're seeing risks from a program/choreography standpoint. His PCS at ACI lower than Aymoz should have sent a bit of a message that if he performs what he's comfortable with and doesn't bring the attack and commitment to the choreography, he could get outscored by those bringing something fresher and more engaging to the table. It was great to see at Skate Canada he was much more "into it", had cleaner skates, and deservedly scored more.

 

[yexiu]

I must be on a different planet. I watched Skate Canada last night and I saw him do an LP that at this time can probably not be beaten, so I'm not sure where he is not keeping up. He had some glitches, but so did Nathan at SA, the only guy who has a chance of beating him. And this at the beginning of the season. Is there some young guy lurking out there I'm not aware of?

LOL, my opinion exactly.

 

[Tsurara]

“Obviously he wants it to be such that it cannot be attributed to sheer luck, and no doubts can be cast by wondering if this or that disaster had not happened during skater X's skate, or if this or that had been scored correctly someone else would have won... That is why he thinks both the gap and the clean skates of competitors are necessary. ”

You make fair points but this is extrapolating. I’m going by what he specifically said in the interview in response to the question (and under the assumption that the subtitles are accurate). If this was “obviously what he wants” then he should have simply said something to that effect “I want to skate well enough that no matter how well others skate, it’s still enough to win.”

I think I see where you're coming from to some extent, besides, no matter the culture, the appropriate level of modesty (or sarcasm) vary person to person due to various circumstances and their background, I believe. Hanyu is not exactly a kind of person who can demonstrate a proper condescending attitude as a 2 times Olympic champion and I can imagine a similar argument coming from anti-Hanyu community of native Japanese speakers as well. (I stay away so I don't know what's actually happening.)

That said,

something to that effect “I want to skate well enough that no matter how well others skate, it’s still enough to win.”

is basically what he said. The point of the interview here is, he does not want to aim to win with his program layout having lower values that the only way to win is to hope others to fail or wish somehow he is the only one receiving high PCS and cause another 'robbed' or 'overscored' argument. People you're disagreeing with see what it means for top athletes to aim to win with a program layout of lower BV in figure skating. (It was such a miserable experience for me when I was cheering for Takahashi and then suddenly realized myself hoping Chan to fail his quad that looked almost always perfect back then.)

As for the GPF comment, he was talking about "ideal" win, meaning, it's something that can happen only in your imaginary perfect world where nobody fail to deliver their own programs. But we live in the real world and the closest it ever got like that in his opinion was that GPF, but mind you, he never said it was even close, afaik.

I believe he is aware that anything close to his 'ideal' win had never happened. I hope you all see the difference of "close" and "the closest" with this context as an English speaker - the closest by this context is not a superlative degree in a general lexical sense, semantic-wise, if that makes it clearer for those who don't get it. (i.e. close < closer < closest in general, but, close >>> the closest, here. Do not rely on dictionary definitions to understand it but be aware of the context.)

We wish for the ideal forums where everyone can communicate without misunderstanding and no language/culture barriers, but we all know it can't happen because we live in the real world. None of us who share translations want any mistranslation or errors, but it's impossible to have perfect ones that everyone agrees. And each of us still try to get there, many times in vain. We can get to sort of the closest to it by each of us trying and sometimes by agreeing to disagree, but it's not even close to the ideal communication, right? I hope you get to see the other side's argument too.

Also, I think it's a good idea sometimes to check up on another translation when available, before quoting from one translation.

I think there is a better translation of this very same interview. It is a bit more accurate and better adopted to English-speaking world. Ok, lets have it as alternative version here as well. Different translation to the same interview:

Part 1 “I really had serious doubts about whether doing steps and transitions into and out of jumps, was being evaluated by the judging panel for just about forever…I have placed the most importance on this and skated (all these years).": https://twitter.com/Iron_Klaus/status/1188817380752969734?s=20

Part 2 (Yuzuru is thinking about removing a lot of transitions): https://twitter.com/Iron_Klaus/status/1188849302396903429?s=20

I didn't read whole things nor compared the two versions (I hate reading embedded texts on Twitter), so it's not about which is better overall, but certain lines you quoted were mistranslated in the original translation (as it took me some time to find where it came from) and Iron Klaus version had a better version of them when I skimmed through.