Ilia Malinin's quad difficulty

[Trusova4Ever]

A tad OT from the thread topic, but US junior Taira Shinohara is also assigned to the junior men division. A delightful performer, hopefully you will get to see both.

Taira Shinohara has a youtube channel: Figure Skater Taira フィギュアスケーターたいら

 

[Lutzedge]

Good luck to Ilia Malinin at the World Championships this weekend! By what he has done in competition recently, I am guessing he will go for a 4 quad layout in his FS.

 

[chuckm]

Ilia had the second highest TES in the SP, but he's getting the newbie treatment on the PCS side. Camden Pulkinen also got lowballed in PCS despite having a clean SP.

 

[katymay]

Ilia had the second highest TES in the SP, but he's getting the newbie treatment on the PCS side. Camden Pulkinen also got lowballed in PCS despite having a clean SP.

What ticked me off about that is he probably did the biggest 4L that has ever been done in competition. (Koylada -not sure he ever landed one of his competition)

 

[YuBluByMe]

(Koylada -not sure he ever landed one of his competition)

Excuse me? Kolyada landed a legendary 4Lz in the SP at Cup of China 2017. As far as jumps go, it's probably the most famous 4Lz ever landed, but it was the only time he landed it clean. Jin had a monstrous and consistent 4Lz in the 2016-2018 days, but he's struggled with it the past four years. I will say that that now Malinin has the best 4Lz in the world and his only competition are the two guys I've already mentioned.

Ilia had the second highest TES in the SP, but he's getting the newbie treatment on the PCS side.

I had him at 38-39 PCS which would have given him 97-98 in the SP. He still would have been no lower than 5th place, but the judges are 100% going for him. He wouldn't have broken 100 if they weren't. In the free skate, his PCS would be in the 80-82 range if he's clean. He's definitely getting the GOES he deserves and his jumps will stand out even in the final group. His subpar skating won't be too glaring either as he's skating after Grassl not the Japanese men. Before the SP, I had him at 280-285 if clean in both programs. But now we're looking at 290+ The judges aren't skimping out on him at all. He's in good shape to grab a spot on the podium.

 

[treblemakerem]

Ilia had the second highest TES in the SP, but he's getting the newbie treatment on the PCS side.

As he should. His jumps are amazing. But the rest of his skating is not on par with the other skaters yet. (As expected for a skater just out of juniors) I thought his PCS was just slightly overmarked.

 

[Arigato]

What ticked me off about that is he probably did the biggest 4L that has ever been done in competition. (Koylada -not sure he ever landed one of his competition)

Malanin's 4Lz is here - time stamped. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.

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Here's another opening 4Lz at U.S. Nationals. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.




Now for an exceptional 4Lz: Look at Kolyada's blades in the air. Huge height.




Quite a difference between a juniorish 4Lz like Malinin's and a superb 4Lz like Kolyada's. Further, Malinin's slow speed creates a real drag on the overall look of his performances.

 

[chuckm]

In recent years, Kolyada hasn't landed anything other than 4t and 4s. His one landed 4z was in 2017, 4 1/2 years ago. Lately, it's a struggle for Kolyada to skate a clean program even with low-value quads.

 

[treblemakerem]

Malanin's 4Lz is here - time stamped. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.

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Here's another opening 4Lz at U.S. Nationals. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.




Now for an exceptional 4Lz: Look at Kolyada's blades in the air. Huge height.




Quite a difference between a juniorish 4Lz like Malinin's and a superb 4Lz like Kolyada's. Further, Malinin's slow speed creates a real drag on the overall look of his performances.

I think Ilia has a good 4lz. Kolyada and Boyang Jin have better ones. Unfortunately they don’t land them consistently especially Kolyada who hasn’t even attempted it in a while.

 

[TontoK]

In recent years, Kolyada hasn't landed anything other than 4t and 4s. His one landed 4z was in 2017, 4 1/2 years ago. Lately, it's a struggle for Kolyada to skate a clean program even with low-value quads.

I didn't realize he'd been that sketchy on the 4Z. I suppose that's because the one I remember most was glorious... the hair stood up on my arms.

 

[Arigato]

I think Ilia has a good 4lz. Kolyada and Boyang Jin have better ones. Unfortunately they don’t land them consistently especially Kolyada who hasn’t even attempted it in a while.

I'm more concerned with the quality of a 4Lutz, not how frequently skaters attempt it.

 

[treblemakerem]

I'm more concerned with the quality of a 4Lutz, not how frequently skaters attempt it.

Well when they splat on the ice I’d say that’s not very good quality...

 

[Lutzedge]

Ilia is currently sitting in 4th place after his SP at Worlds. Good luck to him tomorrow as he does his Quads and technically loaded FS!

 

[chuckm]

I recall back when Boyang Jin was consistently landing 4Z, the Russian men were all being forced to put 4Z in their programs. The end result was lots of splats and few 4Zs being landed.

 

[TontoK]

I recall back when Boyang Jin was consistently landing 4Z, the Russian men were all being forced to put 4Z in their programs. The end result was lots of splats and few 4Zs being landed.

Years later, there are relatively few men who land 4Z consistently in competition. Maybe 5? Chen, Zhou, Malinin (at least much of this season), Grassl, Jin...

Am I missing anyone? And YES I know others have done it in the past, but we're talking about regularly landing it. It's a rare skill.

 

[moonkat]

Malanin's 4Lz is here - time stamped. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.



Here's another opening 4Lz at U.S. Nationals. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.




Now for an exceptional 4Lz: Look at Kolyada's blades in the air. Huge height.




Quite a difference between a juniorish 4Lz like Malinin's and a superb 4Lz like Kolyada's. Further, Malinin's slow speed creates a real drag on the overall look of his performances.

Maybe if he could do a Quint, it would look impressive?
Ilia's jumps are efficient. I believe this efficiency is required for 4-4, 4A and quints.
I'm posting his 4A attempt here too.

 

[Amei]

Malanin's 4Lz is here - time stamped. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.

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Here's another opening 4Lz at U.S. Nationals. Look at his blades in the air. Not impressive.




Now for an exceptional 4Lz: Look at Kolyada's blades in the air. Huge height.




Quite a difference between a juniorish 4Lz like Malinin's and a superb 4Lz like Kolyada's. Further, Malinin's slow speed creates a real drag on the overall look of his performances.

While Kolyada does have a gorgeous quad lutz when he competed it the jump was a total roll of the dice on whether he'd land it. Malinin could very well be jumping his jumps to control them. Much better to get little to no positive GOE on a landed quad lutz then lose 5 points on a gorgeous quad lutz that ends with the skater on their butt

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'm not buying that Malinin has an non-impressive lutz, but to each their own.

Ilia MALININ SP 2022 US Nationals

Ilia MALININ SP 2022 US Nationals

www.youtube.com

It's a deep edge, pretty much no pre-rotation off the pick, good distance, good extension on the landing straight into an outside spread eagle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLi10P0otk#t=3m50s

Is Kolyada's one quad lutz from 2017 CoC better/the best ever? Yes - massive height and distance, no PR, lands very clearly backwards and amazing flow. But you know what also makes a jump impressive? A skater's ability to consistently execute it.

Kolyada has landed/received positive GOE his 4Z exactly 2 times in 21 attempts: https://skatingscores.com/rus/men/mikhail_kolyada/

Malinin has landed/received positive GOE on his 4Z already 6 times in 10 attempts, in not even a year. https://skatingscores.com/usa/men/ilia_malinin/

 

[kolyadafan2002]

While Kolyada does have a gorgeous quad lutz when he competed it the jump was a total roll of the dice on whether he'd land it. Malinin could very well be jumping his jumps to control them. Much better to get little to no positive GOE on a landed quad lutz then lose 5 points on a gorgeous quad lutz that ends with the skater on their butt

My coaches always wanted me to calm the jumps down to get them consistent. And they were right - a cleanly landed jump is first and most important.

It's worth noting Ilia also doesn't PR the 4Lz so above people were arguing about Kolyads doing no PR. Ilia almost jumps from completely backwards.

And if people take the time to read my username, they'll know I'm not trashing Kolyada. I just think Ilias jumping mechanics are super impressive and his consistency so far is great.

 

[Lutzedge]

Ilia Malinin making history! Clean quad axel in practice. He is just on another level.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CdeK3sLJEVG/