Ladies SP - 2014 European Championships

[mirai4life]

Happy for Adelina

 

[jan]

Julia still skates as a junior. I do enjoy her skating but you can definitely see her lower skating skills when she is skating and during footwork. She often steps on a flat edge. In a couple of years I can see her developing this but she is nowhere near the top skaters right now.

 

[Icey]

I guess im on the minority but Caro's program seems empty. On the other hand Julia's was rushed. So much going on in that routine.

Yes, it seems more like an exhibition piece than a competitive program. I think the plunge in the neckline of her dress is too much for Ave Maria. That being said, she did skate it beautifully.

 

[Layfan]

I agree. The over the top faux cheesiness is just too much. I was LMAO and at the same time held my mouse button over the [X] wanting to close the window - badly. It is so bad, that I just can't stop watching it...

And too much make-up on her, IMO...

Too much exaggerated posing in that program, as well...

now I have to watch it

 

[MarysGarden]

First I do not support the current trend, and the subjective discrimination is not my view, but the term is just a reflection on what the judges might have said to defend their practices today. Bodily handicap or its related deficiency often characterized by junior skating, has to do with both aesthetic appeal as well as technical limitation. First of all, if you have less than ideal or advantageous ratio between your height and weight with respect to your own body shape, that critically affects your skating and how it appeals to the audience. Say Rachel Flatt - I don't intend to depreciate Rachel; on the contrary I adore her - due to her body shape her skating often fail to project ideal curvature in her move; her entire body often swings as if she is ready to fall aside or her upper body lacks of high degree of freedom; her arms movement does not show smooth transitions, struggling in incorporating into what she appeared to portray and reenact in her performance. In that sense, she was handicapped. Juniors often cannot absorb the impact of landing adequately into their body which unsettles dynamics of their motion on ice immediately after their landing. that's why you see often their free leg through the roof. That those jumps ought not to be subject to GOE, or considered as excellence nor relevant to juxtapose with senior level skating is my view. Its mimetic, let us say in Platonic sense- flaws constitutes egregious incompatibility to justify its inclusion to senior arena. That's why you cannot help feel that their skating inherently bear disruptiveness in motion like a stringed puppet. That's why their performance looks a series of fractured movements, which is of course not their fault. that's natural and inborn defects in younger body. Figure skating is a sport in constant motion on which skaters are required to make aesthetic buildup with uninhibited set of body language. This linearity embedded in the sport entails physiological compatibility and its merit. Especially in terms of sport science, it is critical for a skater to retain optimal ratio of your body to command your skating. Would you say Midori Ito capable of evoking aesthetic beauty in her best skating like the way Peggy flaming did? Obvious isn't it? If you observe today's skaters, some often lean forward after landing or experience a violent swing due to what was begotten from physiological imbalance. what I meant by the previous post was that judges seem less discerning on this kind of defects, which is good news for those who are subject to these flaws, that is, younger skaters whose skating remains junior.

One of the very best observation that I read in this forum. Very well said. I strongly agree. I appreciate it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I will never view the sport thru those eyes. I will always like the chronic flutzing, junior skating, boneless kid from Russia. Somehow despite all of these she HAS established herself amongst the top 5 in the world. Blame the judges and protocols all you want. I personally think they have been fairly harsh on Julia with the exception being Russia GP. The fact is her and all of her fellow Russian babies are here to stay. They will be rewarded well when they skate well and a lot of us think a good skate is a good skate. Regardless of your body type and age.

This may blow your mind but I actually like her wonky double axel. Boom. Mostly due to how she transitions out of it in the SP. I'm actually surprised there isn't a thread on her Axel.

Back to the topic: I am wondering If Carolina can overcome these two IF all three skate clean in the FS. I'm starting to think all 3 clean is very likely. They all seem on their game. Never thought I'd feel this confident in Adelina but I'm betting she brings it. That was so sad at the GPF FS. She may have grown from it and vowed never again. She may indeed be very fortunate that Julia was at Nationals and Euros to keep her on her toes in prep for Olympics

 

[hippomoomin]

I remember during a competition last year one of the two British commentators said a double axel Julia way can get a skater lots of momentum for the jump after it. And he didn't think it was a bad technique at all (the other commentator did think so). Is it possible that her coach taught her that way to get the 3T after it more secure?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This may blow your mind but I actually like her wonky double axel. Boom. Mostly due to how she transitions out of it in the SP. I'm actually surprised there isn't a thread on her Axel.

The transitions and short setup are the only redeeming factor with that double axel. She didn't land it on an outside edge either (it's more of a flat... although that might make sense for her if she doesn't want to have too much of a running curve on the axel exit to do a 3T, for example).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I remember during a competition last year one of the two British commentators said a double axel Julia way can get a skater lots of momentum for the jump after it. And he didn't think it was a bad technique at all (the other commentator did think so). Is it possible that her coach taught her that way to get the 3T after it more secure?

The 2a-3t-2t is in her FS. In the SP it's a 3(f)Lz-3t. I think she does a 2a early in the SP to allow herself the 3f later and stay within the program restrictions and recieve bonus for the 3f. I'm not very informed on the technical regulations and someone else will probably correct me. I will agree with the thinking that her carrying speed out does make a great deal of sense and being that the 3t after her axel is arguably her best jump in her FS, this speed is crucial. Why has no one nicknamed her ------ I love her the most but that's an appropriate name for her haters to use.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The 2a-3t-2t is in her FS. In the SP it's a 3(f)Lz-3t. I think she does a 2a early in the SP to allow herself the 3f later and stay within the program restrictions and recieve bonus for the 3f. I'm not very informed on the technical regulations and someone else will probably correct me. I will agree with the thinking that her carrying speed out does make a great deal of sense and being that the 3t after her axel is arguably her best jump in her FS, this speed is crucial. Why has no one nicknamed her Flutzniskaia. I love her the most but that's an appropriate name for her haters to use.

For a while there, she certainly put the lip in Lipnitskaia. I think skaters should be called by their names, and not juvenile nicknames that insult them.

 

[Frenchie]

I think she does a 2a early in the SP to allow herself the 3f later and stay within the program restrictions and recieve bonus for the 3f. I'm not very informed on the technical regulations and someone else will probably correct me.

No correction necessary! You get a 10% bonus for any jump you do after the halfway mark (1:25 for the SP; 2:00 for the ladies' FS). So she gets more points by having it this way than switching the placements from 2A and 3F. But if you put 2 jumps in the second half, then you get the bonus for both.

Why has no one nicknamed her Flutzniskaia. I love her the most but that's an appropriate name for her haters to use.

Since when is it the job of those who love a skater the most to give that skater's haters good ideas?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The haters need all the help they can get. Good for you Canadian Skater Guy. I may find flaws in some skaters but I certainly have nothing but respect for them. Whether they are the best in the world or the beginners at my local rinks. No need for silly name calling. I'm just surprised that with the polarizing effect Julia has on fans, I haven't seen that nickname anywhere.

Plus I creatively edited my post.

 

[Icey]

Are you allowed to skate to Ave Maria at the Olympics?

 

[Skater Boy]

Jenna really is the Cher of figure skating, isn't she?

Cher - I wish we could turn back Jenna. sorry I am tired of her. she has lingered in below mediocrity but I give her credit for trying and due to lack of competition in Britain she will be a multi national champion. I wouldn't mind seeing someone else do the freeskate. I hope does her short program at olys but doens't make the long program - why just to give someone else a chance. she has had her chance or chances and she didn't capitalize them in any meaningful way; it is time someone else got their chance even just to skate the ir long program at oly's.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I'm not a huge fan of Carolina's new SP. Actually I just don't like the music But Caro was soooo elegant and gorgeous. Love her hair and the BACK SPIRAL! I think it can be her signature (not the risky salchaw on the last minute)

Top 3(Yuna/Mao/Caro) have same sorts of SPs for this Olympic, it will be interesting to compare them back to back at the Games.

Carolina is far and above the most artistic skater out there today. I don't understand Yu-na's PCS when Carolina's transitions, seamless choreography, speed, edge work as shown here outclassed her and everyone else my miles. That was a truly olympic program, I would love to see this get the scores it deserves in Sochi. I wasn't always Carolina's fan, but her maturity and understanding of the music as well as her huge jumps and speed and ability to actually HOLD OUT the positions makes me really appreciate skating.

 

[burntBREAD]

Are you allowed to skate to Ave Maria at the Olympics?

Why wouldn't you be able to? I recall (at least) Sarah Hughes and Fumie Suguri skating to it in their SPs in 2002.

 

[Elaine]

Although I prefer Julia's programs to Adelina's, I really enjoyed Adelina this time. Julia's small and low jumps sometimes make me kind of nervous. I really wonder how she can get the 2 and half rotation on that low axel. She's improved it a bit since last year, but still...

Carolina is far and above the most artistic skater out there today. I don't understand Yu-na's PCS when Carolina's transitions, seamless choreography, speed, edge work as shown here outclassed her and everyone else my miles. That was a truly olympic program, I would love to see this get the scores it deserves in Sochi. I wasn't always Carolina's fan, but her maturity and understanding of the music as well as her huge jumps and speed and ability to actually HOLD OUT the positions makes me really appreciate skating.

IIRC, in the last competition Yuna and Caro competed together (WC last year), Caro got a higher PCS than Yuna's for the SP. Yuna got higher one for the LP but she nailed everything completely and Caro didn't, so it seemed right to me. (Oh wait. even for the SP Yuna went almost clean other than a questionable wrong edge on her flip and Carolina didn't but I felt OK with those PCSs)
You can't compare PCSs from different competitions, especially in this case considering Yuna competed only at one B-class competition and a National this season.
So I don't think there has been any case that Yuna gets unfairly better PCS than Carolina's in the same competition.

What about Sochi? We'll see. I think if both do clean SPs at the Games, Yuna should be ahead of Carolina because of the technical difficulty. For PCS itself, I don't think Carolina outclasses Yuna and everyone else BY MILES in terms of transitions, choreography, speed, edge work. Maybe any other skaters, but not Yuna and perhaps not Mao. The PCS gap between them should be very close, IMO.

BTW I agree with you on Caro's maturity. I appreciate it so much and it's one of the reason I've been enjoying this sports for recent years.

 

[HalfTriple]

I will never view the sport thru those eyes. I will always like the chronic flutzing, junior skating, boneless kid from Russia. Somehow despite all of these she HAS established herself amongst the top 5 in the world. Blame the judges and protocols all you want. I personally think they have been fairly harsh on Julia with the exception being Russia GP. The fact is her and all of her fellow Russian babies are here to stay. They will be rewarded well when they skate well and a lot of us think a good skate is a good skate. Regardless of your body type and age.

This may blow your mind but I actually like her wonky double axel. Boom. Mostly due to how she transitions out of it in the SP. I'm actually surprised there isn't a thread on her Axel.

Back to the topic: I am wondering If Carolina can overcome these two IF all three skate clean in the FS. I'm starting to think all 3 clean is very likely. They all seem on their game. Never thought I'd feel this confident in Adelina but I'm betting she brings it. That was so sad at the GPF FS. She may have grown from it and vowed never again. She may indeed be very fortunate that Julia was at Nationals and Euros to keep her on her toes in prep for Olympics

My criticism does not mean that I don't like Julia or any skater with less than perfect quality. Nor do I blame judges; simply I diagnose. By the way, I also like her double axel. Julia's double axel is a very sign of her ingenuity. That's my favorite in her skating aside from her musicality.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

:thumbsup:

My criticism does not mean that I don't like Julia or any skater with less than perfect quality. Nor do I blame judges; simply I diagnose. By the way, I also like her double axel. Julia's double axel is a very sign of her ingenuity. That's my favorite in her skating aside from her musicality.

 

[Nater]

I remember during a competition last year one of the two British commentators said a double axel Julia way can get a skater lots of momentum for the jump after it. And he didn't think it was a bad technique at all (the other commentator did think so). Is it possible that her coach taught her that way to get the 3T after it more secure?

The DA technique is terrible. And Commentators (especially Eurosport) tend to try to be as positive as possible about skaters (not a bad thing, mind you). I take what they say with a grain of salt. If Lipinski, Kirk, and Lipnitskaya had found some great secret technique to this jump for combinations then everyone else would be doing it by now, and the judges wouldn't be giving Lipnitskaya -1 to +1 GoEs on average for her Double Axels while giving Sotnikova consistent +2's across almost all the competitions where she lands it cleanly (compared to Lipnitskaya's clean DAs).

She rotates right off the ice with no step up. The jump is whippy/spinny and basically skims the ice. She rotates fast, that's why it works. This technique only works for skaters who rotate extremely fast which depends on factors some skaters cannot control (like body type) which is why most skaters we see doing this share common characteristics. It works for her. It's probably too late to change it (clearly too late to change before the Olympics) and she had growth spurt so I don't think her judges should have tried to mess with it too much, anyways...

But there is nothing good about that technique. It's all wrong.

If she has another growth period and maybe gains weight she may be forced to completely rework this jump, and she'll have trouble with some others as well as many of them are quite whippy.