New strategies for more points in SP?

[Totentanz]

Hello dear members. We were talking about this at "Russian Qualifiers and other competitions" thread. I wanted to ask your opinions about it.

Team Tutberidze is using new strategies for more points in SP this season like doing all jumps tano and doing all jumps at second half. Examples are Serafima Sakhanovich and Evgenia Medvedeva's short programs. Although I like both of these skaters, watching their short programs this season makes me feel strange. I can't describe it. I think that's because of this new strategy that I am not used to see before. One side of me says that "Wow, doing all the jumps at second half and tano, impressive difficulty" but on the other side I find it disturbing the classical pattern of short program.

IJS forces the skaters and coaches to run after as many points as possible they can get. The competition is tight and skaters/coaches who fight for top places are looking for new methods to earn more points. What do you think about this new strategy of team Tutberidze? Do you also think that its distracting or is it fine for you? And what if this method is tried by others in the following years and becomes universally accepted, do you think it will bother the beauty of short program?

 

[Sandpiper]

Well, I don't really follow juniors, so I haven't really seen these programs. But I imagine I'd find them difficult to watch (I think there was one young male skater I saw who did lots of 'tano jumps, and I found it distracting). I think one 'tano jump is enough for the SP.

All jumps in the second half is okay for me, though I'd rather the jumps matched the music rather than being in first half/second half/wherever.

 

[Totentanz]

For people who haven't watched them, here are their videos:
Medvedeva's SP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7aqfUt25Yg
Sakhanovich's SP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJs_0LmYKgY

It will be useful to mention that both have medalled at last season's JGP final and Junior Worlds. This season they weren't eligible for senior GP (since the rule has changed) and they have qualified to JGP final once again.

 

[begin]

I watched Serafima tano the crap out of her program at one JGP and have had enough for the year. And this is coming from someone who normally appreciates technical prowess.

Tutberidze seems to hold little regard for the quality of her pupils' programs. I hope the judges take note of that.

 

[FireOn]

I really hate those tanos.:scowl:
Those girls who jump with arm over the head were often quite forward on the landing and had no flow,
and sometimes they fell hard.

 

[Danja]

For me it`s absolutely fine. As far as figurists are really able to do it. If they are not, they I`d prefer clear jumps at the first half and/or without tanos.

 

[stryke]

There is nothing wrong with it. This is a competitive sport and if you are physically and skilled enough to do harder material to get ahead, you should. A similar skilled skater isn't going to take it easy on you and follow suit because you chose to do the norm and not your full scoring potential. You should have been here for the thread after Evgenias first jgp event this season in Courchevel. It was filled with a bunch of people denouncing her performance because of the tanos. Some of you take this to another level and need to chill out. Using what an above poster wrote as an example: "Tutberidze seems to hold little regard for the quality of her pupils' programs. I hope the judges take note of that." Take note and do what? Score her lower because she doesn't follow this 'classic' routine? That's ridiculous.

I'm personally surprised this is a new thing though I expect and hope to see it more after this season. It's obvious what the top two junior skaters are doing is right and many more skaters will follow their example if they are capable. Here's to the future and 'change' as a whole.

 

[Mathman]

IJS forces the skaters and coaches to run after as many points as possible they can get….do you think it will bother the beauty of short program?

I think that ship has already sailed.

 

[OS]

One thing I have always wondered.

Why don't people do meandering poseography with some lame time wasting 'expressions' like pulling ropes, miming, blow kisses, waving to the audience, flirt, doing the robot, pretend they are a tree, getting angst and more angsy in the first half, including some time wasting spins, long spirals, so they can do all 3 jumping elements in the 2nd half one after another with little or no transition at all, preferably to a thunderous build up to war horse music so to encourages the crowd to clap clap clap along getting excited and elated that totally disorient weaker minded judges in giving high PCS. Is there a rule when you must do at least 1 jumps in the first half?

My strategy can potentially get 4 or 5 points more. If add mad transition and footstep sequence, +2 + 3 more. Basically smoke and mirror first half, most of the content in the 2nd half which leaves a good strong impression. Less effort to go into the choreography or interpretation. Surprised no one attempt it shamelessly yet.... or have they

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think that ship has already sailed.

I dsagree. That ship hasn't sailed, but it's certainly made it a harder ship to get on board. Mao's SP and Kostner's SP from last year were perfect examples of a beautiful SP with huge difficulty.

I'm not a fan of the strategy of putting all 3 jumps in the latter half, but on the other hand, I find it interesting when a skater doesn't immediately power into their first jump 15 seconds into the program. Murakami's SP where she starts with a footwork sequence I found was particularly lovely - it's like, never mind how I jump... let me first show you how I skate.

 

[jenaj]

IJS is kind of like an experiment on lab rats. Every time there is a change in the rules or something is rewarded, everyone changes their behavior, just like the rats do when they have to tap three times for cheese instead of two.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Mao's SP and Kostner's SP from last year were perfect examples of a beautiful SP with huge difficulty.

Kostner's SP didn't have "huge difficulty", though? There were not many transitions, the layback wasn't max level, she didn't attempt a Lutz, and only the double axel was backloaded.

Kostner (and Mao, to a certain extent) was a remnant of 6.0 skating and the only way Kostner was able to get her scores was because of longevity + statuesque form. Nobody is even going to try to skate like she did anymore. Instead, it's going to be all about stuffing in the transitions and maxxing out base values.

 

[Meoima]

IJS is kind of like an experiment on lab rats. Every time there is a change in the rules or something is rewarded, everyone changes their behavior, just like the rats do when they have to tap three times for cheese instead of two.

Exactly how I see it...

 

[Bonnie F]

I think if everyone starts back loading the programs to much, the isu will eventually just limit how many jumps passes can receive the bonus or be performed in the second half. Personally I don't think there should be a bonus in the SP anyway. I would just require that at least one jump take place in the second half or make a rule that all three jump elements could not be performed back to back.

 

[Meoima]

I think if everyone starts back loading the programs to much, the isu will eventually just limit how many jumps passes can receive the bonus or be performed in the second half. Personally I don't think there should be a bonus in the SP anyway. I would just require that at least one jump take place in the second half or make a rule that all three jump elements could not be performed back to back.

I like your thoughts. But do you think ISU will care much about the balance of the prorgams? The way I see it now, it seems they are encouraging skaters to backload their programs.

 

[MalAssada]

This thought keeps coming back to me: The bonus is about distribution. Soon the meaning won't make sense any more, since some programs have all the jumps in the second half instead of distributing them half/half.

 

[Blades of Passion]

A halfway bonus for the SP was the dumb implementation of a better idea, which is the only way ISU knows how to do anything. A bonus is justified but it needs to be later than just halfway through. There should also simply be an outright penalty if all 3 jump elements are done in a row at the start of the program. That's the reason we got the bonus in the first place - because the SP's had become unbalanced with all of the jump elements happening at the start. Of course, while we're at it, there needs to be new rules for footwork sequences (MAKE THEM SHORTER, for starters) and the SP should go back to have 8 elements.