Russian patronymics

[CodyRhodesDiva]

I checked out the FSkate.ru skaters database on the web archive page and I noticed a lot of figure skaters (past and present) have the following patronymics:

Alekansrovich/Aleksandrovna
Sergeyevich/Sergeyevna
Andreyevich/Andreyevna
Vladimirovich/Vladimirovna
Nikolayevich/Nikolayevna
Alekseyevich/Alekseyevna
Viktorovich/Viktorovna
Mikhailovich/Mikhailovna
Dmitrievich/Dmitrievna
Ivanovich/Ivanovna

But what about these patronymics?

Yurievich/Yurievna
Igorevich/Igorevna
Yevgenievich/Yevgenievna
Maksimovich/Maksimovna (I do know that Yevgenia Tarasova's patronymic is Maksimovna)
Anatolievich/Anatolievna
Valerievich/Valerievna
Olegovich/Olegovna
Vyacheslavovich/Vyacheslavovna
Borisovich/Borisovna
Vasilievich/Vasilievna
Pavlovich/Pavlovna
Romanovich/Romanovna
Gennadievich/Gennadievna
Konstantinovich/Konstantinovna (Irina Rodnina's patronymic is Konstantinovna)
Grigorievich/Grigorievna
Antonovich/Antonovna
Leonidovich/Leonidovna
Nikitich/Nikitichna
Arkadievich/Arkadievna
Danilovich/Danilovna
Denisovich/Denisovna
Eduardovich/Eduardovna
Lvovich/Lvovna
Ilyich/Ilyinichna
Fedorovich/Fedorovna
Glebovich/Glebovna
Georgievich/Georgievna
Kiriilovich/Kiriilovna
Maratovich/Maratovna
Petrovich/Petrovna
Ruslanovich/Ruslanovna
Stepanovich/Stepanovna
Stanislavovich/Stanislavovna
Timofeyevich/Timofeyevna
Vadimovich/Vadimovna
Valentinovich/Valentinovna
Vsevolodovich/Vsevolodovna
Vladislavovich/Vladislavovna
Arturovich/Arturovna
Yegorovich/Yegorovna
Artemovich/Artemovna

Is it possible for these figure skaters to have these patronymic in addition to the ten most common ones?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Is it possible for these figure skaters to have these patronymic

Well the patronymic depends on the father's first name so for example if Konstantin Menshov had a kid their patronymic would be Konstantinovich/Konstantinovna.

Now I'm not sure what happens in Russia if you don't know who your father is, or if you're estranged or something. Can you pick your own patronymic? Use your mother's name instead? Or does it have to be a male relative's name (like your grandfather's)? Or just not have one at all?

 

[MGstyle]

I think the fact adheres, regardless of the relationship with the father. Lipnitskaya's full name is listed as Julia Vyacheslavovna Lipnitskaya, although the father Vyacheslav left the family even before she was born and they barely know each other.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Anatolievich/Anatolievna

3 words:

Tatiana Anatolyevna Tarasova.

But, I agree. The names on that second list are a lot less common as patronyms. Which, by extension, means that the names they are derived from were not popular 2 generations previously. (Remember: although the patronym is derived from your father's name, it was your grandparents that named your father! )

---

Thank you for starting this thread, @CodyRhodesDiva. Because I started wondering something related to patronyms last week, but I didn't want to start a vew thread just to ask what is probably a silly question.

I don't know if it happens much in Russia, but in many countries it has become common for children to be given a diminutive as their full legal name. For example:

• a kid could be given the name "Tim", but it not actually be a shortened form of "Timothy"
• a kid could be given the name "Tom", but it not actually be a shortened form of "Thomas"

(I picked these particular examples because it is common for couples who have twin sons to call them "Tim" and "Tom").

In cases like this, how would the patronym work?

Imagine a guy who is officially named "Sasha" (rather than "Alexander") by his parents goes on and has a kid. Would that kid have the patronym "Sashavich", or would the kid still be required to have the patronym "Alexandrovich", even that is not what the kid's father is officially named?

I know. I think too much.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[lariko]

Now I'm not sure what happens in Russia if you don't know who your father is, or if you're estranged or something. Can you pick your own patronymic? Use your mother's name instead? Or does it have to be a male relative's name (like your grandfather's)? Or just not have one at all?

With the caveat that this was 30 years ago, not in modern, much different times, a mother’s name is rarely used, but it had been and could be done. If the father’s name is known, unless the mother insists it’s her name, the patronymic will be recorded at birth, derived from father’s name. In adoption cases, the patronymic could be changed, iirc, but not simply in a divorce or when paternal rights are revoked. Changing anything about the name involves courts (or did thirty years ago) even if it is done at the issue of the first internal passport at 16.

I don’t know what the rule is for an orphan/child with an unknown father, but I believe whoever fills the paperwork can chose one.

 

[lariko]

Imagine a guy who is officially named "Sasha" (rather than "Alexander") by his parents goes on and has a kid. Would that kid have the patronym "Sashavich", or would the kid still be required to have the patronym "Alexandrovich", even that is not what the kid's father is officially named?

If Sasha was officially recorded as his first name (that would be weird though, because the full official form of a name is strongly favoured in the paperwork), it will be Sashovich/Sashovna. The same way, the foreign names will be used as the base for patronymics.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Now I'm not sure what happens in Russia if you don't know who your father is, or if you're estranged or something. Can you pick your own patronymic? Use your mother's name instead? Or does it have to be a male relative's name (like your grandfather's)? Or just not have one at all?

With the caveat that this was 30 years ago, not in modern, much different times, a mother’s name is rarely used, but it had been and could be done. If the father’s name is known, unless the mother insists it’s her name, the patronymic will be recorded at birth, derived from father’s name. In adoption cases, the patronymic could be changed, iirc, but not simply in a divorce or when paternal rights are revoked. Changing anything about the name involves courts (or did thirty years ago) even if it is done at the issue of the first internal passport at 16.

I don’t know what the rule is for an orphan/child with an unknown father, but I believe whoever fills the paperwork can chose one.

You know, I wouldn't have even thought of what would happen in situations like these, but it is very interesting to hear.

It does sound like a bureaucratic nightmare. Which is the last thing that the families involved need.

As I've said before a number of times, I've always liked the naming system used in Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries, where official names use the surnames of both parents. (Given name Father's surname Mother's surname for Spanish names; Given name Mother's surname Father's surname for Portuguese names). Because I liked the way that it honours both sides of your family, rather than just the one. But, now that you have started me thinking about single parent families, I can see the drawbacks to these systems.

So, thank you for asking the question, @anonymoose_au, and thank you for enlightening us, @lariko.

If Sasha was officially recorded as his first name (that would be weird though, because the full official form of a name is strongly favoured in the paperwork), it will be Sashovich/Sashovna. The same way, the foreign names will be used as the base for patronymics.

That is another of the random thoughts that pop into my head solved.

The reason I was wondering is because I have heard stories about Czech officials putting "-ová" onto the ends of foreign females' names when filling out forms whether it is actually part of their name or not. And then this causing problems overseas when some documents have the name with the "-ová" and other documents have it without the "-ová". So, I was wondering if similar situations could arise if Russian officials insisted on using full names for forming patronyms if the diminutive was actually the father's official name.

Thank you again, @lariko. Both answers have been very interesting and eye opening.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[LadyB]

Judging by some single-mum skaters (whose parents were not married and split up prior to birth), at least some mothers/families in the 80s and early 90s seemed to have opted for the grandfather's name as patronym in the absence of the biological father in line with tradition.

@MGstyle The Lipnitskaya example is very interesting.

 

[lariko]

The reason I was wondering is because I have heard stories about Czech officials putting "-ová" onto the ends of foreign females' names when filling out forms whether it is actually part of their name or not. And then this causing problems overseas when some documents have the name with the "-ová" and other documents have it without the "-ová".

That’s okay, my grandfather, back before Russians were allowed out of the country much, had to be issued a driver’s licence for use abroad. It had to be in Latin script. Enter the traffic police official who stares at the Latin alphabet that doesn’t have a symbol for ‘sh’. So, they just spelled his name in Latin, but in the middle of it, they put the Cyrillic Ш because you know, in a pinch, ‘em heathens will get it... I saw the document, it was hilarious.

 

[Fanou]

The same way, the foreign names will be used as the base for patronymics.

Ok, so I have a question. Let's imagine a little girl called Anastasia, with a Russian mother and a French father. The French father can be called Jean-Claude Lebreton for instance, something very French.
How do you form the patronymic and the surname ? Jean-Claudovna ? Lebreton remains the same or becomes Lebretonova ???

 

[lariko]

Ok, so I have a question. Let's imagine a little girl called Anastasia, with a Russian mother and a French father. The French father can be called Jean-Claude Lebreton for instance, something very French.
How do you form the patronymic and the surname ? Jean-Claudovna ? Lebreton remains the same or becomes Lebretonova ???

I think for the ease of use, only the first name of the hyphenated FIRST name will become patronymic. The LAST name will remain exactly the same in Russian as in the Western name. So, her full name will be recorded as

Anastasia Jeanovna Lebreton

way back when last names were less stable, the last name of the father might have been Russified as well, but with a different suffixes than for patronymic. Lermont became Letmontov. But not today, the last name will not change. It won’t even get female for a girl like with Zagorskii (a Russian girl would have been Zagorskaya).

So, anyone so inclined, can create themselves a 3-part Russian name:

First Name (unchanged)
Patronymic Name: your father’s name with the suffix -ovich/ovna (male/female) or -evich/evna (male/female) depending on how your father’s name ends and what sounds better to ye friendly Russian ear (yeah, I know)
Last Name (unchanged)

no luck for your middle name