Should ISU introduce mandatory costumes?

[lariko]

Are you suggesting skaters having no costumes at all?

Yes. I prefer athletic gear, like in other sports. During summer Olympics, women beach volleyball rose this issue, and I think it’s long overdue in figure skating. I think athletes should compete in gear that helps them, rather than hurts them. I watch a few Nature of Things shows where current champions try matching results in period gear. They all comment on how uncomfortable the old gear is. I think the same will happen if skaters are allowed to compete comfortably. I think it’s not an accident that N. Chen notoriously wore basically athletic attire his entire career. This is not what any woman figure skater can even contemplate.

See my other post on health concerns.

And, yes, costumes underscore economic inequality of skaters.

In the end of the day, womenswear in figureskating is absurd. I mean, people resisted introduction of helmets in hockey because their enjoyment was reduced without seeing players’ faces. But theyare okay. And they don’t demand hockey to be played in speedos no matter how many new fans such a move will bring. The fans will survive without upskirting and skaters will have fewer pneumonias, ice burns and maybe fall less as well as won’t have to scrape together every every year for a new wasteful, disposable, sweat-stinking piece of gauze and spandex.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Yes.

Sorry, I mustn't have made myself clear enough. I was trying to crack a joke that it sounded like you were encouraging skaters to wear nothing whatsoever.

Hence the disagreeing GIF, and the Matteo Guarise reference.

I prefer athletic gear, like in other sports. During summer Olympics, women beach volleyball rose this issue, and I think it’s long overdue in figure skating. I think athletes should compete in gear that helps them, rather than hurts them. I watch a few Nature of Things shows where current champions try matching results in period gear. They all comment on how uncomfortable the old gear is. I think the same will happen if skaters are allowed to compete comfortably. I think it’s not an accident that N. Chen notoriously wore basically athletic attire his entire career. This is not what any woman figure skater can even contemplate.

See my other post on health concerns.

And, yes, costumes underscore economic inequality of skaters.

In the end of the day, womenswear in figureskating is absurd. I mean, people resisted introduction of helmets in hockey because their enjoyment was reduced without seeing players’ faces. But theyare okay. And they don’t demand hockey to be played in speedos. The fans will survey without upskirting and skaters will have fewer pneumonias, ice burns and maybe fall less as well as won’t have to scrape together every every year for a new wasteful, disposable, sweat-stinking piece of gauze and spandex.

Completely agree about wearing gear that is comfortable, and doesn't hinder movement. There is no point wearing something that could potentially hold you back.

I am torn about helmets. From the safety perspective, I am all for it. Hey, they have had them in speed skating for years, and they just go round in circles. They don't have things like jumps and throws. But, the difference is that the helmets are paired with bland bodysuits in speed skating. Helmets would look out of place with the pretty outfits that we have in figure skating.

Then again, who says you can't look good while wearing a helmet? Check out these pictures of the sponsor's mascot (Big Ed) and his assistants (the Smilers) from the 2010 British Superbike Championship:

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4892197422_23e79a6c35.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/05/69/ea0569013ae5bfd1667fe96de3135b3b.jpg

(In case you are wondering, the sponsor was an insurance company. The championship is now sponsored by a different insurance company, which does not have a mascot).

Just to make clear - full motorcycle helmets would not be suitable for figure skating. They would raise the centre of gravity far too high, and make doing jumps or throws more dangerous. But, the type of helmets used in speed skating or ski sports would be perfect.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[lariko]

Sorry, I mustn't have made myself clear enough. I was trying to crack a joke that it sounded like you were encouraging skaters to wear nothing whatsoever.

How, if the paragraph started with ‘I prefer skaters wearing athletic wear’? I thought it was a clearly stated thesis.

 

[lariko]

In terms of helmets, I think there is no clarity, but it’s no brainer that athletic wear will be safer, more comfortable, healthier, practical and make far more sense than current stuff. If anyone disagrees, I suggest they put on a swimsuit, wrap a piece of gauze around their hips and go make laps at a skating rink at max speed they can for 20 minutes.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I am an ex-pro skater. I am also a qualified tailor, who now professionally makes figure skating and dance centred practice wear and custom costumes for competition.

Firstly, if anybody puts on a swimsuit, wraps a piece of gauze around their hips and does 20 laps of a full size rink at maximum speed, I can guarantee that they will wish the swimsuit was smaller as they will be sweating buckets by the end of it. Skating competition programs is very hot work!

Personally, I love the costuming aspect of figure skating. I am not overly keen on the rich/poor divide when it comes to the price of them, but there are ways around it and, frankly, the people who make the costumes deserve to be paid for their work. It takes many, many hours to apply the decoration that many skaters want. If they can't afford to pay for those hours of somebody's time, then there is always the option to decorate the costumes themselves. Or even learn to sew and make them from scratch. Some skaters have sponsors who pay for the costumes. And, obviously, not all costumes are heavily embellished. I did costumes for some junior ice dancers this year with absolutely no bling on them at all and the feedback has been excellent, from spectators, judges and other skaters alike. (Ashlie Slatter and Atl Ongay-Perez, if you need to look.)

My main focus for costumes, however, is comfort. The skater has to be comfortable and confident in what they are wearing. The cut is a major part of this, but so is colour and embellishment. It's a pressured and scary place out there on the ice in front of judges and audience and if some bling helps the skater cope, then it's valid. And, needless to say, the costumes should be easy to launder.

Of course, I do award a "Golden Cabbage" every season for what I consider to be the worst costume but I would never in a million years tell the skaters who got it.

 

[el henry]

In the past, Donovan Carrillo had next to no funding.

He always had beautiful, bling-y, costume-y, costumes.

It can be done.

 

[gkelly]

For those who missed it, the original post did say

And of course, this is fake news. ISU, to my knowledge, are NOT doing this.

This thread is a hypothetical question posed by the OP, not a report of anything the ISU has actually considered.

Theatre on Ice competitions include a segment called Choreographic Exercise in which all skaters must wear plain black outfits. Here is an example of some:

2018 National Theater on Ice Competition | Senior Choreographic Exercise

SUBSCRIBE to the U.S. Figure Skating Channel: https://usfigu.re/ytsub Watch all of our playlists here: https://www.youtube.com/user/USFSVideo/playlists Follo...

www.youtube.com

These are not required costumes, but rather choices by each team about what to wear within the strict limitations of what they are allowed to wear for this competition segment. It's not "mandatory costumes" in the sense that everyone has to wear the exact same thing.

Some teams choose to have the women wear black tights with black skating dresses (or leotards and separate skirts, or separate shirts and skating skirts). Some have the women wear leggings and shirts. Or unitards with or without skirts. Or shirts and pants. The men always wear the latter.

Some have long sleeves and turtlenecks. Some have 3/4 length sleeves, some short sleeves, some sleeveless -- with a variety of necklines.

The teams don't necessary train in these competition outfits. But whether they choose a more covered or less covered design, heavier or lighter fabric, might be influenced by the temperatures at their training rinks.

I can't imagine that the ISU designing one set of clothing for women and one for men and requiring all skaters in solo and couple disciplines to wear the exact same same outfits as their competitors, regardless of body type or preference for feeling warm or cool etc.

I could certainly imagine restricting clothing options for a technical program to solid colors without ornamentation (may not required to be black, and probably not forbidding lighter colored tights).

Less likely for rhythm dances where the clothing is expected to reflect the selected dances as traditionally performed off ice. And less likely for free programs where individual expression of a choreographic theme would be more encouraged.

The current rules say "the clothing of the Competitors must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition – not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing may, however, reflect the character of the music chosen. The clothing must not give the effect of excessive nudity inappropriate for the discipline. Men must wear full length trousers."

In the past, skirts have been required for women and sleeves for men.

I could imagine them getting stricter about imposing more restrictions to eliminate or restrict the use of sequins/crystals, illusion fabric, drapy material other than simple skirts, etc., in attempt to shift the the traditions more toward athleticism and less toward theatricality.

But in general, the ISU has never explicitly encouraged skaters toward theatrical costumes of any kind -- the rules have only forbidden or permitted various kinds of creativity that the skaters themselves (and designers they hire) come up with.

Skaters choosing to display wealth or the appearance of wealth through what they wear at competitions has been a part of skating culture at least since the fur-trimmed costumes in the days of outdoor rinks and furrier's daughter Sonja Henie as the one to beat.

Many skaters will try to one-up each other in having what they consider the most beautiful or striking costumes, and many skaters will try to express visual creativity and/or to express artistic creativity in relation to program themes.

At lower levels, some skaters may enjoy the idea of creativity but don't have the skating skills to show as much creativity with on-ice skills.

I guess the question is whether as fans we prefer to enjoy and encourage the skater-driven costume creativity aspect of skating culture, or whether we would prefer to see it reined in with focus more on the technical skills.

Personally, I am torn. I wouldn't mind having one competition phase or separate discipline that focuses primarily on technical skills with as little distraction as possible from other sources such as clothing, and another that focuses on a total artistic package where creative use of skating skills remains primary but supported by freer rein in music and costume choices.

 

[noskates]

I think instituting anything mandatory that isn't directly related to the actual skating is ridiculous. Figure skating has enough problems without adding something like this. I can just imagine the blowback if they tried it. Negative attention from the media, etc. which figure skating does not need. There are costumes that I think are inappropriate (Loena's barely there dress, for example) but other than saying "what the heck" I got so involved in her program that I didn't even think about it. This is a very bad idea. I also don't want to see "figures" come back. It was boring to watch and I don't think it added to anything. Skaters seem to have been doing okay without them. I also fail to see how a costume can affect the health and welfare of a skater. That's a bit of a stretch for me. Wasn't there a time when a skater would lose points because of their costume? Maybe that's the way to approach the issue. But that opens up a whole can of worms. Isn't it up to the individual federations to ensure their skaters are presenting well?

 

[Moxiejan]

Responding to this:
The current rules say "the clothing of the Competitors must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition – not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing may, however, reflect the character of the music chosen. The clothing must not give the effect of excessive nudity inappropriate for the discipline. Men must wear full length trousers."

Imho (as a fuddy-duddy who has been a skating fan since Carol Heiss), the “modest” needs to be addressed with the increasing lack of coverage of women’s bottoms — especially in pairs that do extended overhead lifts with legs split, but even in singles. During this fall’s comps, i’ve seen numerous instances of the under-panty creeping up to where it’s essentially a G-string. Yes, i know that in most cases skaters are wearing tights & we’re not seeing “actual skin,” but the impression of near-nudity remains. I would be fine with a rule that requires what in swimsuits is called a boy-cut bottom.

 

[ladyjane]

I love costumes. I mostly don't like sports except figure skating, and the constumes are an important part of that.

 

[yume]

Yes, i know that in most cases skaters are wearing tights & we’re not seeing “actual skin,” but the impression of near-nudity remains. I would be fine with a rule that requires what in swimsuits is called a boy-cut bottom.

 

[surimi]

I enjoy watching beautiful costumes, for me it's a part of the experience. That said, even plain costumes can look beautiful, and I'm satisfied with the current variety of colors, decoration, styles and cuts. The one thing I would welcome are some guidelines when it comes to revealing and appropriate costumes. Watching something that looks like underwear or bikini, with some transparent fabric draped over it, is just strange. And I agree with @Moxiejan regarding covering women's butts; that's something I would appreciate.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but to me, plain black clothes look boring in a gala (especially when they come double in pairs and dance couples), unless one is skating to funeral music, or something super hardcore. Looking at you, Italian pair from NHK...

Costumes shouldn't be mandatory. Costume damage and loss can happen any time - one of the NHK skaters this week located his in a nick of time. It would be unfair to penalize skaters for mishaps.

@WednesdayMarch , since you are a costume maker, I'd like to ask if you consider outfits sold in normal stores safe to skate in? As in, aren't they a bigger risk for rips and tears, and pieces and decoration falling off, than outfits designed for competing in?

Interesting topic overall.

 

[yesterday]

Looking at you, Italian pair from NHK

I'm not entirely sure how you mean this, but as the empty chair and their skating suggested a loss in their social environment, they were absolutely dressed properly.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I enjoy watching beautiful costumes, for me it's a part of the experience. That said, even plain costumes can look beautiful, and I'm satisfied with the current variety of colors, decoration, styles and cuts. The one thing I would welcome are some guidelines when it comes to revealing and appropriate costumes. Watching something that looks like underwear or bikini, with some transparent fabric draped over it, is just strange. And I agree with @Moxiejan regarding covering women's butts; that's something I would appreciate.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but to me, plain black clothes look boring in a gala (especially when they come double in pairs and dance couples), unless one is skating to funeral music, or something super hardcore. Looking at you, Italian pair from NHK...

Costumes shouldn't be mandatory. Costume damage and loss can happen any time - one of the NHK skaters this week located his in a nick of time. It would be unfair to penalize skaters for mishaps.

@WednesdayMarch , since you are a costume maker, I'd like to ask if you consider outfits sold in normal stores safe to skate in? As in, aren't they a bigger risk for rips and tears, and pieces and decoration falling off, than outfits designed for competing in?

Interesting topic overall.

Okay. Firstly, I am all for a rule that bottoms should be covered but I thought we actually had that? Aka The Katarina Witt Rule?

I will agree that there have been some rather too "naked" costumes on show this season, including one in the Juniors that I would have given a costume deduction for and a strongly worded piece of advice to the skater concerned and their coach. Yes, we know that there is, in reality, very little actual skin on show and it's mostly covered with skin-toned fabric and/or "illusion mesh" but when it gives the illusion of being naked, surely that's pretty much as tasteless as just leaving it naked anyway? Looks less blotchy and possibly bruised but... No. Let's not be tacky. Nobody wants to feel they're about to see your breakfast.

Are outfits sold in normal stores safe to skate in? I would say that yes, in the main they are. They should be at no more risk of rips, tears and pieces of decoration falling off than those "designed for competing in". The thing here is that anybody can design and make something to wear to skate in and they are totally at liberty to decorate it as they see it. Back when I was first competing, rhinestones were unusual at levels lower than national, and we mostly used sequins. They were sewn on individually and tied off, to ensure that if one came free, it wasn't followed by a whole string of them. And yes, it took for-ev-er to do just one dress, but it was safer so we did it that way.

These days we have beautiful crystals with which to cover anything and everything we choose and anybody who wishes can do that, by whichever method of application they choose. Some of which are better than others. It scares me half to death that one - or more - of those beautiful little crystals is going to come adrift, fall onto the ice and meet a blade. (And don't get me started on people who insist on sticking extra crystals on their boots. Crystals on boots should be applied at the construction stage, where they have no chance of falling - or being knocked - off.)

So now you're going to be terrified whenever anybody steps on the ice with a crystalled costume and that's all my doing...

Also, feathers are even more risky. And fringe can be a minefield unless you're absolutely certain it's not going to drop any bits.

The main advantage of having costumes designed, made and fitted by a professional should be in the fit, the comfort, the quality of construction and the creative interpretation of the skater's ideas rather than a mass produced, generic design who may or may not fit. (Industry standard has all womenswear made to a B cup fitting. Did you know this? It's why most women find that bustlines don't quite fit, buttons gape, etc. Whilst Lycra has fantastic stretch properties, some people need a lot more fitting in that department.) But don't ever dismiss out of hand somebody's mother or grandmother who is a dab hand with a serger. Just make sure she's tested her method of crystal application for safety both before and after laundering...

 

[surimi]

I'm not entirely sure how you mean this, but as the empty chair and their skating suggested a loss in their social environment, they were absolutely dressed properly.

It didn't suggest anything at all to me, hence my impression, which remains unchanged. Weird choice of a gala topic, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Amei]

Health: I have a hard time thinking that 'health' argument as being a valid reason to nix a historical aspect of figure skating with costumes when we see in situations where the ladies usually have more control over what they wear like practices and exhibitions are sometimes equal to or more revealing and/or make them colder than a lot of competition dresses. Example: Mariah Bell's exhibition costume last year was a crop top and shorts, now I wasn't wearing either 1 of them, but comparing the 2, I would put the exhibition outfit as being the colder attire. And ladies do have the option to wear bodysuits/pants, most just choose not to.

Cost: Similar to the lack of coverage with costumes - that is often times dictated by choices of the coaching team or the skater. A lot go with more embellished dresses, but they don't have to, they are making that choice.

 

[Amei]

I love costumes. I mostly don't like sports except figure skating, and the constumes are an important part of that.

Its a historical aspect of the sport and honestly how many active figure skaters would vote to get rid of costumes if they had the choice?

And there are some skaters that costumes help them with the performance aspect of skating and/or set the mood towards their performance. Example: Chock/Bates Snake dance - if Madison was just in a pair of leggings and a shirt, would that performance still hit the same way as it does when she's in costume? She's a great performer but I don't think it would hit the same.

 

[surimi]

Okay. Firstly, I am all for a rule that bottoms should be covered but I thought we actually had that? Aka The Katarina Witt Rule?

I will agree that there have been some rather too "naked" costumes on show this season, including one in the Juniors that I would have given a costume deduction for and a strongly worded piece of advice to the skater concerned and their coach. Yes, we know that there is, in reality, very little actual skin on show and it's mostly covered with skin-toned fabric and/or "illusion mesh" but when it gives the illusion of being naked, surely that's pretty much as tasteless as just leaving it naked anyway? Looks less blotchy and possibly bruised but... No. Let's not be tacky. Nobody wants to feel they're about to see your breakfast.

Are outfits sold in normal stores safe to skate in? I would say that yes, in the main they are. They should be at no more risk of rips, tears and pieces of decoration falling off than those "designed for competing in". The thing here is that anybody can design and make something to wear to skate in and they are totally at liberty to decorate it as they see it. Back when I was first competing, rhinestones were unusual at levels lower than national, and we mostly used sequins. They were sewn on individually and tied off, to ensure that if one came free, it wasn't followed by a whole string of them. And yes, it took for-ev-er to do just one dress, but it was safer so we did it that way.

These days we have beautiful crystals with which to cover anything and everything we choose and anybody who wishes can do that, by whichever method of application they choose. Some of which are better than others. It scares me half to death that one - or more - of those beautiful little crystals is going to come adrift, fall onto the ice and meet a blade. (And don't get me started on people who insist on sticking extra crystals on their boots. Crystals on boots should be applied at the construction stage, where they have no chance of falling - or being knocked - off.)

So now you're going to be terrified whenever anybody steps on the ice with a crystalled costume and that's all my doing...

Also, feathers are even more risky. And fringe can be a minefield unless you're absolutely certain it's not going to drop any bits.

The main advantage of having costumes designed, made and fitted by a professional should be in the fit, the comfort, the quality of construction and the creative interpretation of the skater's ideas rather than a mass produced, generic design who may or may not fit. (Industry standard has all womenswear made to a B cup fitting. Did you know this? It's why most women find that bustlines don't quite fit, buttons gape, etc. Whilst Lycra has fantastic stretch properties, some people need a lot more fitting in that department.) But don't ever dismiss out of hand somebody's mother or grandmother who is a dab hand with a serger. Just make sure she's tested her method of crystal application for safety both before and after laundering...

Thanks a lot for your insights! I imagine flexibility of the material has to be a big bonus on professionally made sports costumes, but I may be mistaken. There are people who are able to contort their bodies into complex spins while wearing normal clothes, so what do I know!

 

[surimi]

Example: Mariah Bell's exhibition costume last year was a crop top and shorts, now I wasn't wearing either 1 of them, but comparing the 2, I would put the exhibition outfit as being the colder attire.

Or Liza Tuktamysheva's flight attendant gala But IIRC, she did get sick not long after that one.

 

[yume]

Okay. Firstly, I am all for a rule that bottoms should be covered but I thought we actually had that? Aka The Katarina Witt Rule?

I will agree that there have been some rather too "naked" costumes on show this season, including one in the Juniors that I would have given a costume deduction for and a strongly worded piece of advice to the skater concerned and their coach. Yes, we know that there is, in reality, very little actual skin on show and it's mostly covered with skin-toned fabric and/or "illusion mesh" but when it gives the illusion of being naked, surely that's pretty much as tasteless as just leaving it naked anyway? Looks less blotchy and possibly bruised but... No. Let's not be tacky. Nobody wants to feel they're about to see your breakfast.

I don't think that the rule still exists. Or it may have been replaced by something more evasive that allows this freedom. Something like half of your body must be covered. Well, tights are covering half of skaters' bodies......may be why deductions are rare.

I'm sometimes surprised by some costumes i see skaters wearing, especially juniors or very young seniors. I'm tired of this see trough trend. There are too many dresses that look like underwears.

And youtubers (and even media generally) enjoy the revealing bottoms. Too many times i've seen butts as clickbait.