WADA Compliance Review Committee / RUSADA

[Naya]

No OAR, only "nationless" athletes w/o any national symbols of identity. Quotas still by federation and passport most likely.

Wonder if supporter flags and nationalistic paraphernalia are still allowed ...

And what to do about judges representing Russia? Neuter those too? And officials , i.e. Lakernik and those other old men which might be 'tainted' by previous scandals?

Many, (even domestic that have the guts to speak out) athletes and governing bodies demand a complete and thorough top down cleansing of the whole political column that supports Russian sports.

So Russians won't be able to form a team under any condition?

What a mess. Rusada's president Yuri Ganus is the only one who has been critical of the stance of sports officials in Russia. It's complicated, but I hope athletes there finally understand how serious the situation is and begin to demand real changes in Russia sports system.

 

[Miriam090]

No OAR, only "nationless" athletes w/o any national symbols of identity. Quotas still by federation and passport most likely.

So looks like no team event in 2022 then for the Russians....

 

[WeakAnkles]

No OAR, only "nationless" athletes w/o any national symbols of identity. Quotas still by federation and passport most likely.

Wonder if supporter flags and nationalistic paraphernalia are still allowed ...

And what to do about judges representing Russia? Neuter those too? And officials , i.e. Lakernik and those other old men which might be 'tainted' by previous scandals?

Many, (even domestic that have the guts to speak out) athletes and governing bodies demand a complete and thorough top down cleansing of the whole political column that rules Russian sports.

I would lead the cheers if there was "a complete and thorough top down cleansing of the whole political column that rules Russian sports." They have politicized the problem as much if not more than anyone else, and frankly I get enough politics from my idiotic country.

 

[Edwin]

So Russians won't be able to form a team under any condition?

Good question, about team events. I don't know, there could be more 'neutral' entries in the Olympics for various reasons. Grouping them all together?

Pure team sports will have to compete in blank outfits, I suppose any possible FS team event that falls under this rule will be conducted the same.

 

[klena]

This politically driven decision was expected.

I am from Crimea (Russia) and like no one else I understand the reasons.

 

[beachmouse]

Now, this is interesting, because despite being cleared by FINA, the Chinese swimmer Sun is being pursued by WADA who want that ruling overturned.

Why is it that WADA only chose to go after him, but not Gaitlin? Talk about a bad look! It's like if you're Chinese or Russian obviously you must be stopped, but if you're not it's more like "Oh, okay, you made a mistake. You've learned your lesson and won't do it again? Righto."

If WADA wants credibility it has to act the same way to everyone, otherwise it's not just conspiracy theories...

Part of the anger over the Sun case is that FINA and the Chinese federation attempted to allow him to serve his first doping ban in secret during a down time on a swimming schedule. As flawed as the USA itself can be over doping offenses, it's also pretty open in other ways and anyone in the world can go to the USADA web site and see how frequently top athletes have been tested over the course of their elite careers.

From what I'm reading of the decision, I like it. The status quo couldn't go on and I feel like it's a good balance between shaking the dirt out and allowing an elite competition pathway for clean athletes.

It's probably easy to copy and paste the athletics/track and field authorized neutral athlete policy in place because of Russia's permaban from that organization. Which generally requires a solid biological passport and record of clean tests outside the offending country. For Russian skaters, I'd be pretty much begging to be tested at any international competition and training camp I'm at in order to build my clean permanent record.

More importantly, it goes after 'the suits' as Craig Lord describes them- the officials who use every big global sporting competition as a luxury vacation with their trip paid for by their federation or the sporting global board. (I've got a friend of a friend who is a politician highly placed in Germany's anti-doping efforts and while she really does mean well in those attempts, she will also never turn down a free trip involving a first class flight and a five star hotel to the Olympics or football World Cup) So no more trips to Brazil in January for a global federation-sponsored conference on biathlon youth development.

I think it will also help make clean Russian athletes more confident in speaking up and trying to make changes from within and global pressure will make retaliation against those athletes by their federation less likely. One of the strongest voices for claning up Russian track and field has become high jumper Maria Lasitkene, who reacted about as expected to the ban:

https://www.rt.com/sport/475391-maria-lasitskene-wada-russia-ban/

Lasitskene, who this year became the first woman in history to win three high jump world titles, emphasized that Russian athletes have been forced to fight alone for their rights, without any help from Russian authorities.

“My future plans? I will fight for my rights to compete. I have never planned to change my citizenship and I’m not planning to do it now. I will prove in the jumping sector that Russian athletes are still alive, even in neutral status.

“I have been doing it for the last many years. The only thing that upsets me is that Russian authorities have been protecting athletes only on paper, without any concrete actions.”

 

[DSQ]

Tbh I’m upset because some of these skaters, especially Russian skaters let’s be honest, Beijing will be their only Olympics and to not represent their country... figure skating isn’t athletics or cycling there isn’t much doping.

I don’t know but if the accusations are true then I understand but I feel for the innocents.

What annoys me the most is WADA want to get tough on cheats but when the UK wanted to ban our cheats from the Olympics for life they wouldn’t let us. These mixed signals does make the Russian decision feel political.

 

[Edwin]

I think it will also help make clean Russian athletes more confident in speaking up and trying to make changes from within and global pressure will make retaliation against those athletes by their federation less likely. One of the strongest voices for claning up Russian track and field has become high jumper Maria Lasitkene, who reacted about as expected to the ban:

https://www.rt.com/sport/475391-maria-lasitskene-wada-russia-ban/

I honestly hope so, but given the rabid and aggressive 'fan base' in some sports (including FS), those athletes that speak up now are really taking risks. Chances of them being mobbed by 'patriotic' thugs while the police looks the other way are real.

It all depends now on politicians and mass media, and already the known camps are firing off their arguments.

TASS maintains a reasonable English language press service. Read for instance this: https://tass.com/sport/1097295,

https://tass.com/sport/1097255,
https://tass.com/sport/1097379

I think it is unlikely CAS will overturn WADA's decision, since it was taken unanimously, and sort of is a continuation of the status quo, with additional stripping of OAR status in the Olympics, while allowing squeaky clean athletes to compete neutrally. So in most eyes the best compromise possible.

But if the CAS ruling takes very long Russia's participation as Russia in the 2024 Olympics are also in jeopardy.

Now we have to wait for ISU's commentary and position, Russia is also very strong in speed and short track skating, having lots of neutral athletes winning medals looks isn't particularly attractive to sponsors from Russia i'd think.

I for one hope WADA toughens up on all doping cases, ban offenders for life.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

Will they also be banning Russian flags and such in the audience?

 

[Naya]

Now that Russia is banned again, Maria Lasitkene will probably move abroad (just for training), in order to atest she is under a strong anti-doping system and don't lose another Olympics.

 

[Edwin]

Will they also be banning Russian flags and such in the audience?

No official word yet. Might depend on the LOC 'arena policy'.

But given the behaviour of the Russian fanatics in Sochi 2004, so patriotic that many consider it offensive? Tokyo 2020 and Beijing 2022 aren't exactly cheap venues, so I think that will keep a lot of 'fanooligans' out.

 

[[email protected]]

Tbh I’m upset because some of these skaters, especially Russian skaters let’s be honest, Beijing will be their only Olympics and to not represent their country... figure skating isn’t athletics or cycling there isn’t much doping.

I don’t know but if the accusations are true then I understand but I feel for the innocents.

What annoys me the most is WADA want to get tough on cheats but when the UK wanted to ban our cheats from the Olympics for life they wouldn’t let us. These mixed signals does make the Russian decision feel political.

There are 2 camps. One camp is wooing WADA'a decision as the victory in the war with doping. The other camp is booing WADA'a decision as a clear punishment for the things which have little to do with sports. We had a long thread with arguments of double standards, of Serena not letting inspectors in, of TUE when serious drugs are taken before the competitions for the condition which is even not officially recognized in many countries, etc. But I don't think that any of participants changed their camp after that. It's futile. Therefore, I don't think that I will continue to participate in the discussion before new developments take place.

There was a strong "patriotic" push in Russia not to go to Korea as OAR. I think that was exactly what those who started this whole thing wanted - to make Russia isolate itself. I am so glad that the common sense prevailed and the team went to the Olympics. With Russian flags allowed at the stands this whole OAR business was like a not funny joke. I remember hockey final - it was Russia all over.

This time for the very same stuff which happened 6 years ago they want to go further - apparently, "OAR business" was a fiasco. Russia was there and Russia won 2 key gold medals. And even not letting S/K and S/B compete backfired. After Ivan wrote a letter to IOC asking for explanations and received none they were seen as "martyrs". Not the outcome WADA wanted. "Russia does not want to isolate itself? Then we shall isolate Russia"

If they by any means limit the participation of Russian ladies in the worlds and Olympics the whole sport will be devalued. Let us hope that "an old fox Bach" figures out another compromise.

 

[KOBOT37]

Russia will appeal to CAS within 21 days, where the final ruling will be made.

What will that bring, apart from lots of money to expensive law firms?

CAS is unlikely to rule a political decision.

Things aren't that clear.

During 2018 winter Olympics Russian Olympic Committee was banned, now AFAIK it's not.

It can be argued that according to olympic charter National Olympic committees have right to display flags,in other words, if ROC isn't banned it can be argued that banning it's flag from Olympics is in fact unlawful.

and anyway, even if they had no chance, they would still go to CAS, first of all, that means things wont change until spring and secondly, Russian government needs to show that they are doing everything they can to defend their athletes

 

[beachmouse]

Now that Russia is banned again, Maria Lasitkene will probably move abroad (just for training), in order to atest she is under a strong anti-doping system and don't lose another Olympics.

If they can afford to do so, a lot of track and field professionals 'follow the sun' according to the time of year because it's easier to get motivated to train outside in pleasant 20C/70F conditions than to face the same workout in a soulless poorly-lit multipurpose sports building where it's -10C and windy outside.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

No official word yet. Might depend on the LOC 'arena policy'.

But given the behaviour of the Russian fanatics in Sochi 2004, so patriotic that many consider it offensive? Tokyo 2020 and Beijing 2022 aren't exactly cheap venues, so I think that will keep a lot of 'fanooligans' out.

I don't think they will. They said they would for pyeongchang, but they didn't

 

[Naya]

If they can afford to do so, a lot of track and field professionals 'follow the sun' according to the time of year because it's easier to get motivated to train outside in pleasant 20C/70F conditions than to face the same workout in a soulless poorly-lit multipurpose sports building where it's -10C and windy outside.

Yes, I know about this, but in Lasitskene's case, now she is moving abroad mostly to secure she is clean and get the right to compete. I think she will choose Germany.

 

[Edwin]

If they by any means limit the participation of Russian ladies in the worlds and Olympics the whole sport will be devalued. Let us hope that "an old fox Bach" figures out another compromise.

As a Russian citizen, do you still trust your leadership and media? Do you really want 'politics' to change and cast your vote accordingly?

AFAIK, the proven clean athletes can still compete in blank costumes and without Russian flag and anthem in the medal ceremony. Wether they personally want to, or are inhibited by their government actively boycotting a World Championships? Too early to tell.

Much depends now on how the Russian government and by extension the mass media under their control react and how the public opinion will be shaped. I can already imagine the shouting matches on Channel One's live "Время покажет": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcyDFewEvsk , where it has already begun.

 

[starla16]

As a Russian citizen, do you still trust your leadership and media? Do you really want 'politics' to change and cast your vote accordingly?

AFAIK, the proven clean athletes can still compete in blank costumes and without their flag and anthem in the medal ceremony. Wether they personally want to, or are inhibited by their government actively boycotting a World Championships? Too early to tell.

Much depends now on how the Russian government and by extension the mass media under their control react and how the public opinion will be shaped. I can already imagine the shouting matches on Channel One's live "Время покажет": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcyDFewEvsk , where it has already begun.

wouldnt mean nationless mean no quota ?
so it all depends on ranking and seasons best

Then Trusova, Shecherbakova, Tuktamysheva, Kostornaya, Zagitova and Med have all the chance to compete at Worlds in the future
not sure about maybe also in Olympics ?

 

[KOBOT37]

Chances are, Lasitskene wont be allowed to compete anyway, regardless of where she goes.

Case of Russian Track and Field is much worse than rest of the Russian sport, most likely, entire team will be banned like they were in Rio

 

[Edwin]

wouldnt mean nationless mean no quota ?
so it all depends on ranking and seasons best

Then Trusova, Shecherbakova, Tuktamysheva, Kostornaya, Zagitova and Med have all the chance to compete at Worlds in the future
not sure about maybe also in Olympics ?

I assume quota are still divided over LOC and by passport i.e. 3 per LOC according to the rules. The ISU and IOC databases of athletes won't chance their nationality. There is no neutral category apart from rare cases where a LOC isn't accredited yet.

RUSADA has lost its accreditation, despite having been compliant and clean with WADA since its restructuring, so all domestic doping checks are invalidated by default?

It is good our favourite Russian skaters have competed and been tested abroad many times per season. Like others have said, a proper record and large number of clean samples is for their benefit, no matter the discomfort of not being able to pee into a bottle with an official watching. They have to stay squeaky clean, not even taking ordinary cold medicines that might get recognised as masking agents, their parents need to be careful too and doctors need to keep all kind of records for years to come, a continuous and all inclusive paper trail. No unmoderated social media excursions 'to interact with the fans', we all know where these can lead to.

And we should seriously hope no envious federation/individual starts a rumour or files an accusation out of spite.