What the Wagner Controversy Shows Us
- Thread starter skylark
- Start date
Ashley voiced her disagreement with the scoring. I don't think it was particularly disrespectful. She said she was furious; she was being honest with her emotions...she did not put a death wish against judges. You can disagree with Ashley on her marks and agree with the judges. But the so-called "turmoil" is just the phenomena of social media where every celebrity is scrutinized and every social media participant becomes an expert on human psychology. I'm chiming in as a non-expert in psychology or skating by saying that although Ashley could have received higher PCs in her FD, I did not see her marks as scandalous. I also think, as human beings, the judges were slightly tainted by a lack-luster season with her poor judgement in not developing this LP earlier and especially pulling out mid-skate at Skate America for an existing medical condition. She ran out of "mulligans". I think Ashley has moved on and I think we all should.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
As of 24 hours ago, Ashley had not moved on.
... I don’t think people feel comfortable enough saying they aren’t okay, and right now I am not okay. But also, someday, hopefully soon, I’ll be able to make myself be okay! ...
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd-0VougaaT/?taken-by=ashwagner2010 (Jan 15)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd-0VougaaT/?taken-by=ashwagner2010 (Jan 15)
She hopes to move on soon, but she had not yet moved on.
I hope GS will move on soon as well, but her absence from the Olympic team is/was major news, especially for Ashley fans. I can understand that it is a topic of ongoing discussion.
(Regarding the thread topic, my two cents are that I don't think the Twitter reaction is gender-related.)
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- Jan 28, 2013
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I don't think the reaction is gender related.
I think the reaction is to a perception - right or wrong - that she is a poor sport. I think this is exacerbated by a perception - right or wrong - that she had already been "given a pass" to the Olympics once, and now she expected it again. There is also a perception - right or wrong, but I happen to believe this one - that her PCS scoring complaints are a mask for the true issue, which is placement.
I think the real wrench thrown into the works happened over Thanksgiving at Skate America. When Bradie Tennell wow'd everyone with two solid performances on a pretty big stage, I think it caught many people unaware. And, sure, she had done very well at some Senior B's - but Skate America was a big reveal to a lot of people.
I imagine that at the beginning of the season, everyone assumed that the Olympic Team would be Ashley, Karen, and a someone else. Both of those skaters had their troubles over the course of the season, and then Bradie showed up with solid technical programs and an attitude that she could deliver those performances every day of the week.
A narrative had been building over the course of a year, and then Bradie Tennell upset the applecart a month before trials. It had to effect the skaters. And then, to top it off, she skates well before them at Nationals SP, and blows the roof off the house and the scores. And they have to respond when it counts the most.
And then, Mirai is throwing 3A's and showing steady nerves all of a sudden?
It was "time's up" for talk and "game on" for delivery. Their competition stepped it up and Karen and Ashley couldn't respond.
The fight for the third spot was tight, and one of them was going to win, and one was going to lose.
And I think the real knife in the back was that most people didn't particularly care that Ashley was on the bad end of the deal.
I think the reaction is to a perception - right or wrong - that she is a poor sport. I think this is exacerbated by a perception - right or wrong - that she had already been "given a pass" to the Olympics once, and now she expected it again. There is also a perception - right or wrong, but I happen to believe this one - that her PCS scoring complaints are a mask for the true issue, which is placement.
I think the real wrench thrown into the works happened over Thanksgiving at Skate America. When Bradie Tennell wow'd everyone with two solid performances on a pretty big stage, I think it caught many people unaware. And, sure, she had done very well at some Senior B's - but Skate America was a big reveal to a lot of people.
I imagine that at the beginning of the season, everyone assumed that the Olympic Team would be Ashley, Karen, and a someone else. Both of those skaters had their troubles over the course of the season, and then Bradie showed up with solid technical programs and an attitude that she could deliver those performances every day of the week.
A narrative had been building over the course of a year, and then Bradie Tennell upset the applecart a month before trials. It had to effect the skaters. And then, to top it off, she skates well before them at Nationals SP, and blows the roof off the house and the scores. And they have to respond when it counts the most.
And then, Mirai is throwing 3A's and showing steady nerves all of a sudden?
It was "time's up" for talk and "game on" for delivery. Their competition stepped it up and Karen and Ashley couldn't respond.
The fight for the third spot was tight, and one of them was going to win, and one was going to lose.
And I think the real knife in the back was that most people didn't particularly care that Ashley was on the bad end of the deal.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
If I were Ashley I would keep quiet and mind my p's and q's. Any of the other 3 girls could get injured and she's starting to easier and easier not to chose her even if the spot opens up. I'm sure there are provisions to not take her even if she is 1st Alternate.
I would also have agreed to go to 4CC to show I was still playing the game and seeing if anything shook lose. I would only really let my feelings show after it was too late for me to be chosen. But then I'm older and more politically minded than Ashley.
I would also have agreed to go to 4CC to show I was still playing the game and seeing if anything shook lose. I would only really let my feelings show after it was too late for me to be chosen. But then I'm older and more politically minded than Ashley.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
People hate Ashley Wagner. They just do. Four year fans are dumb and have no idea of context and still see her as some kind of evil maleficent figure, sweeping in to steal poor Mirai's Olympic spot. I bet 90 percent of those people leaving nasty comments on twitter and Facebook have no idea she is the only American women in ten years to get any kind of world medal. Most avid fans of the sport are touchy about any outspoken athletes and but especially harsh on her, if she said half of the the kind of crap Patrick has about her competition the negative threads would be never ending here. Even Gracie, who was being snotty on twitter literally all nationals was praised on here! But Not Ashley. Ashley is untalented, Ashely is ungrateful, Ashley expects the world handed to her, Ashley behaves like a spoiled brat brat blah blah blah. She was robbed of a national title last year and of a bronze this year. It's been broken down many times in the Nationals free skate thread and in the furious thread of how obvious the judges were messing with the pcs to get the team they wanted. She just made it easier for them with the popped jump. Wether you love Ashley or hate her, her record cannot be denied. She is the one, not Gracie, or Polina, Karen, or Mirai, or Bradie, or Courtney to keep USA figure skating relevant all these years. All of those women I just named would be thrilled to have the medals and international success Ashley has. It's such a shame that fans and the general public are so harsh on her. When without her, USA skating would be so much worse off then it is now. I hope time remembers her much more kindly and accurately then then she is treated now.
It seems that Ashley is blaming everyone except herself. IMO Ashley figured that she was a shoe in for the Olympics and took it for granted. She says that she is happy for the other girls but in the same breath, she should be on the team...The game can't be made twice. The only way that she went to the last Olympics was not by her own work but because some one else had to stay of the team for her to go. Did she expect the same this time? I think yes and she voiced her opinion which is her prerogative...
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- Feb 19, 2006
YASQUEENnnnnnn
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2011
I think it is really bad how people ( usually people who don't regularly follow skating and just follow it when there is some sort of scandal) quickly blame the skater who was picked over another skater. No skater has that power. The decision is made by the USFSA. Ashley got the wrath in 2014 and now Adam is being hounded. People are telling him he should not be on the team and that he stole Ross' spot.
It is just so dumb to blame the skater.
I like that Ashley is vocal and opinionated. Her LP was not great, but the judges did kind of mess with her. They did her no favors. You can argue that she should have fought more for it. Added a combo to another jump after missing the second 3/3 maybe. But the idea that female skaters have to be quiet and ladylike is archaic. The USFSA has to evolve like everyone else. Maybe we can start by calling them women instead of 'ladies'. (which drives me nuts btw)
It is just so dumb to blame the skater.
I like that Ashley is vocal and opinionated. Her LP was not great, but the judges did kind of mess with her. They did her no favors. You can argue that she should have fought more for it. Added a combo to another jump after missing the second 3/3 maybe. But the idea that female skaters have to be quiet and ladylike is archaic. The USFSA has to evolve like everyone else. Maybe we can start by calling them women instead of 'ladies'. (which drives me nuts btw)
Canada does call them women. Hooray for us!
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Well, quite a few people were vociferous about it. Many agreed that Wagner was underscored at her own Nationals, and Karen is very fortunate to be going to the Olympics. But, honestly, at least Wagner had that Olympic experience and it helped her out in the following quadrennial, I think. She is allowed to be frustrated though at missing out on this one, and it's understandable that some will derisively tell her it's justice for Mirai or whatever, and others will defend her and cry bad judging even if it won't change the result. That's what people do after skating competitions. They'll make fun of skaters they don't like who fail, and they'll support the ones they like who they think were robbed.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Really?
Just a few weeks ago my bf said (regarding female figure skaters), "They're women. Not ladies." And I'm like "Yeah, I know they should be called women... but unfortunately the skating world calls them 'ladies'." This is pleasant to hear.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
On Canadian television they kept referring to them as "girls" at Nationals which IMO is just as bad. It kept reminding me of the trash NBC projected during the 1996 Olympics where the women's team final opened with that insufferable "little girls dancing for gold" fluff piece. :sarcasm:
As for the the Wagner drama, there's definitely truth to the idea that she's being hated on more than usual because she isn't a pageant queen who's just gonna sit her ass down and wave her arm to the crowd with pursed lips like people stuck in the 60s think female athletes should behave.
And she's right anyway, her PCS compared to the top 3 women at Nationals were a joke (she didn't say that, but I'm saying it). I saw the pieces where she talks about her scores and I don't understand how people can say she's a brat or entitled; she didn't throw her teammates under the bus or say they were overscored, she merely questioned her scores (and in a respectful manner at that). She's already at Patrick Chan's level of hate on these forums (warranted in his case though his whines don't make it to the news as often as Ashley... hmm, I don't know why...) and I wonder how much worse she would be treated if she were to outright trash her competitors like he often does. Meh. I was never a fan of Ashley but this treatment of her and how she was just dumped at Nationals really left me unhappy.
Really?
Just a few weeks ago my bf said (regarding female figure skaters), "They're women. Not ladies." And I'm like "Yeah, I know they should be called women... but unfortunately the skating world calls them 'ladies'." This is pleasant to hear.
Yep. I have my programs right here, and they're women. Also check out the results page and video archive for the recent championships (I'd say the schedule, but it's nearly unreadable and heavily abbreviated).
I think it changed some years ago.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2013
I'd much prefer if they kept calling them Ladies and started calling the men Gentlemen. Figure skating is a very classy and sophisticated sport after all. :yes:
Worse. I can hear Debi saying it, but didn't think she was commentating any more.
I've seen this mentioned a few times, but only three combos are allowed in a freeskate. This was her third. Another combination would have been invalidated anyway.
I noticed how on the Skate Canada stream Ted kept saying girls and Debbie kept correcting him, he was so funny because he too corrected himself several times. But that's great, the constant corrections made me realize he was making an effort.
As far as i'm concerned Ashley has no one but herself to blame. Three times she had a chance to quality for the Olympics and she failed all three times including being off the podium the last two times when all she had to do was be on the podium when their were three spots. Maybe if she had skated better those times there would never have been any controversy but she didn't and she never seems to blame herself for underachieving in Olympic years.