2015 Junior Worlds Ladies Short Program March 4

[silverlake22]

Zhenia was great but sad for everyone else. Wakaba was pretty good too, but that program is a snooze. I can't believe she's barely 14, she looks so much older! Thought Medvedeva was maybe a little overscored since the lutz was shaky on the landing and clearly flutz, I think her JGPF SP was better, but I'm just being nitpicky. She was by far the class of the field. Hopefully Sima can rebound for the FS.

Not a good day for the American ladies or Sotskova. Felt bad because Mariya's coach was so stonefaced in the Kiss N Cry. I feel like Mariya looks 2 inches taller every time she competes this season, wonder if growing so fast is interfering with her jumps, she doesn't usually get URs.

 

[Caustica]

evgenia lutz here is a big fat flutz (she did not get the counter at all, not even close), consistently does not get called, does not mean it is right. So she can put lutz and flip in SP. whereas, other skaters has questionable edge calles, will need to change their jump combo. it is not fair.
first, evenia's lutz technique is not lutz at all, it is using loop entry to force a outside edge(similar cheated technique is used by some other Russian skaters as well). But if she can at least keep that outside edge at take off, I will give it to her. but she cannot even manage that. the difficulty of a lutz jump and the credit should be awarded, is not there at all.

Solo lutz is the required jump for junior ladies in the SP so regardless of whether or not Evgenia flutzes she still has to put it in. It bears no effect on her choice of combo jumps. It would only matter if she lips instead of flutzes; in that case she wouldn't (shouldn't?) do 3F in her combo. But 3F isn't her problem, so of course she should use it as her combo.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

For those discussing Zhenia's lutz I made a few videos of her 3lz from JGPF where she got an edge call.

http://youtu.be/egd-GIx4MjU

This video is a bad version but my Internet crashed while uploading the HD and better edited version. When I get back from the rink I'll upload the better version and maybe by then the video from today will be available.

My take...she is the reverse of Polina who approaches her flip on the wrong edge and tries to rock backtp the inside edge at the last possible second. In fact Polina's flip is nearly identical to Zhenia's Lutz. I think both will usually get a ! With the occasional e. Anyway....I'll update this in a few hours for anyone interested.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Solo lutz is the required jump for junior ladies in the SP so regardless of whether or not Evgenia flutzes she still has to put it in. It bears no effect on her choice of combo jumps. It would only matter if she lips instead of flutzes; in that case she wouldn't (shouldn't?) do 3F in her combo. But 3F isn't her problem, so of course she should use it as her combo.

Wakaba however could do 3t-3t , 3z, 2a and avoid the edge calls on her 3f-3t. Instead she is 0 for 7 clean flips this season (counting the FS too) with I believe two full on "e" calls.

 

[shine]

For those discussing Zhenia's lutz I made a few videos of her 3lz from JGPF where she got an edge call.

http://youtu.be/egd-GIx4MjU

This video is a bad version but my Internet crashed while uploading the HD and better edited version. When I get back from the rink I'll upload the better version and maybe by then the video from today will be available.

My take...she is the reverse of Polina who approaches her flip on the wrong edge and tries to rock backtp the inside edge at the last possible second. In fact Polina's flip is nearly identical to Zhenia's Lutz. I think both will usually get a ! With the occasional e. Anyway....I'll update this in a few hours for anyone interested.

IMO it's way harder to "cheat" a flutz into a lutz than it is the other way around. You either have that outside edge takeoff or you don't. That counter rotation cannot be "faked". There's no inbetween. As for Eugenia's lutz, she attempts to hold the outside for a while, but goes into a clear inside edge on the take off, no question. The camera angle on the replay was very good for looking at the edge change. In fact, she holds that inside edge for way too long to not have been picked up by any technical caller. Her body also leans toward the direction of the rotation on the takeoff, which is natural for an inside edge takeoff. Funny, because it actually looks kind of like Edmund's flip.

 

[chuckm]

Medvedeva just eked out that flutz---she had absolutely no runout at all on it. Yet even with the !, 3 judges gave her 0 on it when it really should have been -GOE overall.

 

[Lipea]

she got -.50 overall, with five -1s and one -2. but even if all gave her -2 she would still be pretty well ahead of everyone else. We'll see if it would affect the final standings after FS, but I rather doubt it will. So I don't see the point for discussion here. Right now it is first of all bad for her future to not have a correct edge on lutz. It seems like almost all Eteri's students struggle with edges.

 

[robinhood]

I think right now, the 2 Russian girls are using the same strategy for the lutz. They enter the jump with that "loop" entrance with a clear outside edge but they both roll into the inside or flat at the take off. This is a smart strategy by their coaching team because the callers will sometimes see it or not, although I'd like it if they could fix it from basics as Joanie Rochette
@Sam-Skwantch, could you upload Wakaba's flip? I think it's a clear "e" too and I suppose she could gain huge points with a 3T-3T like Tuktamysheva. She has so much flow...I am really impressed with her

 

[yyyskate]

textbook flip should be on a shallow inside edge(not deep inside edge, which will cause other problems, such as rolling on whole blade, mule kick, pre-rotate etc.), the most important is that flip jumping pass circle is along with the rotation, whereas lutz is counter the rotation. as it shows clearly on ice tracing. wakaba's flip, after her 3 turn, she has problem with holding a secure shallow inside edge, wobbles (this is not good, she needs to improve, ) and deserved a ! edge call, but if you look at her ice tracing, the whole jumping pass circle is still along with the rotation, it is completely different from lip jumpers (e.g. Miki Ando) who will leave a counter ice tracing. Comparing wakaba's flip mechanic to her lutz mechanic, which is completely different. She can clear distinguish a flip to a lutz.
whereas, evgenia here in this comp, her flutz mechanic is almost similar to her flip mechanic (except she forced an outside edge before her flutz jump). The extend of her mistake is bigger than Wakaba's. if her flutz looked similar to Polina's flip, then she should get edge call, whereas Polina should not.
If centain flutzer know that they will only get ! calls and almost got the whole credit of a correct edge jump, they will keep their flutz, whereas, other skaters(also has edge problems) are not so sure they won't get called or a ! call, they will need to think of a way to change either their combo or solo jump.
Every year, there is a required solo jump type for junor is to enforce skaters to learn correct technique, this year, it is "lutz" years, but a flutzer wins all junior comp, the intention of this regulation seems pointless...

EDIT: therefore, I support wakaba to keep flip in her SP, and believe she can completely fix her edge problem and obtain a secure inside edge in the future.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think right now, the 2 Russian girls are using the same strategy for the lutz. They enter the jump with that "loop" entrance with a clear outside edge but they both roll into the inside or flat at the take off. This is a smart strategy by their coaching team because the callers will sometimes see it or not, although I'd like it if they could fix it from basics as Joanie Rochette
@Sam-Skwantch, could you upload Wakaba's flip? I think it's a clear "e" too and I suppose she could gain huge points with a 3T-3T like Tuktamysheva. She has so much flow...I am really impressed with her

I am at the rink for a few more hours but as soon as I get home I'll do it :yes:

Maybe Sabinfire or someone else with their own jumpamatron can beat me to it

I don't understand either why Wakaba doesn't just do a 3t-3t. Not having one clean flip seems a little too telltale IMO. Plus she could make up a few points she loses in PCS.

 

[yyyskate]

why wakaba should keep flip in her SP, i already posted my reasoning, whether she change it to 3T-3T or will 3T-3T bring her more points, even it does, has NOTHING to do with her PCS.

 

[Sandpiper]

Evgenia is a wonderful skater, but once again, I wish her SP weren't such a COPoints program. With that huge score--earned by a shaky ! lutz--I'm starting to worry that ladies skating could head into the "who can do more 'tano/backloading regardless of actual jump/program quality; no progress in terms of actually doing more difficult jumps" route. Thankfully, Evgenia's LP is a much stronger program despite its blatant screams for points, so I look forward to that.

Serafima's fight on her combo was very 6.0: "I refuse to put my foot down; I will make judges count that second jump!" Kinda pointless in COP, since a "smoothly done" step-out would've been seen as less disruptive, but I loved the fight she had. There are many things to like about Sima, but she sometimes ends up undermining the nice things she just offered: big triple jumps but an eeked out 2A, fastest layback in the field that's ruined by that Biellmann position (I understand her GOE due to the speed, but it's kinda unfair to people like Evgenia, Maria, and Elizabet who attain wonderful positions), a certain presence on the ice but strange styling and programs that make her look younger/more vulnerable.

Wakaba has power and probably edged out Sima on the jumps, though her program didn't leave that much of an impression. But she'll definitely improve in the future, and could be a force to be reckoned with.

Yuka Nagai, despite the jump error, was actually my favourite Japanese lady from an artistic standpoint. The music still makes me , but she presented a seamless, more complete program without blatant tricks sticking out.

Since I don't follow juniors too closely, I didn't quite know what to expect from Elizabet, after so many people spoke of how good she was. They... weren't lying! I loved, loved her performance. Something about her reminds me of Satoko Miyahara (but with bigger jumps ): the "old soul" in a tiny body, the interesting spin positions, the refinement of her hands.

Maria... I guess she doesn't get much help when she makes mistakes. It wasn't terrible from a performance standpoint (she has nice movements, though is still a little cold), but she'll need a mini-miracle to get to the podium.

Karen should've gone for a combo... messy or not, at least it would've picked up some points. Maybe a little low-balled on SS, since her speed and ease across the ice looked second to none (Wakaba is also fast, but it didn't look like effortless speed compared to Karen).

Our Canadian ladies... oh my. Ah well, no one watches Canadian skaters for the ladies anyway...

 

[MsLiinaLii]

Little thoughts from the rink.
Unfortunately, I was able to come only for 2 last groups. Just some comments.

Elizabet TURZYNBAEVA - this girl is so small. I liked her flow, shame about mistakes.
Da Bin CHOI - I will out it out here -> i do not like poor posture. The elements were nice, but there was nothing between them.
Karen CHEN - When she is on, when jumps are there, you cannot take your eyes of her. However, the first jump was off-> no combo. We felt like she could have added double there. Her spins are impressive! And yes -> speed, loads of speed and ice coverage.
Maria SOTSKOVA - Just as she stepped on ice I saw how nervous she was. Again, combo! That fall was so unfortunate. Then she had a stumble on her step sequence... I guess Tallinn is not her city.
Yuka NAGAI - Lovely, calm performance. I am not a crazy fan of hers, but she looks really lovely on ice.

Anastasia GALUSTYAN - She did her job, landed the jumps. The overall impression is that she does not have good basics...
Nicole RAJICOVA - Clean performance(if I remember correctly) with lovely smile. For me the highlight was her axel and her smile
Jenni SAARINEN - I was in the event with my Finnish friend(she was a synchronized skater, even a world champion and really rooted for her. Some scary jumps (especially the last one, she had scary body positiob in the air) but overall I liked that she has energetic music and nice performance.
Serafima SAKHANOVICH - She scared everyone with the combo. At first we were like "yes, landed" and then "stand, dont fall". I loove her flow and I could finally see it live.
Evgenia MEDVEDEVA - What a lovely ending of ladies SP! Evgenia was amazing, even with that lutz. I did not even see how half of the programm has passed(as her jumps are in second half). Lovely control, spins, jumps, steps! I love everything about her and i was not disappointed seeing her live for the first time! And she deserved huge applause from the crowd!

P.S. I saw myself in the stream! Yay! xD

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

why wakaba should keep flip in her SP, i already posted my reasoning, whether she change it to 3T-3T or will 3T-3T bring her more points, even it does, has NOTHING to do with her PCS.

I know they aren't related but her low transition scores are a bit shy of Zhenya and Sima regularly. She could pick up a point or more by getting a high GOE 3t-3t and not having to depend on if she gets ! or e.

FWIW: I've always used Wakaba's flip jump of a prime example of all edge calls being overly punished.

 

[karne]

Kailani! :yay:

 

[Watermelondrea]

Both russians incredibly overscored, why does sima get 10 pts more than sotskova? And zheniya should get like all the penalties on her Lutz. Forcing an edge thru the loop technique? And why has she never gotten called on the edge? I used to like her but this is ridiculous.

 

[chuckm]

Yes, Sakanovich's combination was messy, to say the least, yet one judge gave her 0 on it and most gave her only -1. And why did she get higher PCS scores than Higuchi? No doubt because Higuchi beat her at the JGPF... There's no JPN or Asian judge on the panel, just 9 European judges (4 former SSRs, 3 Eastern Euro, 2 Western Euro) so these results are not exactly unexpected...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Loving the conspiracies

As predictable as the results. :yes:

 

[hippomoomin]

Wonder if there is anything wrong with the ice. Most girls here underperformed. Sarafema starts to show signs of struggle due to her flawed jumping technique. I think she would be one of the Russian ladies who would not go very far in the future. Maria Sotskove is such a lovely skater, but please Maria, stopping growing taller. Both American girls make mistakes too. I feel Tyler is always underscored. She has such great musicality and refined movement on the ice, which I don't see that often in American ladies.

 

[Sandpiper]

Yes, Sakanovich's combination was messy, to say the least, yet one judge gave her 0 on it and most gave her only -1. And why did she get higher PCS scores than Higuchi? No doubt because Higuchi beat her at the JGPF... There's no JPN or Asian judge on the panel, just 9 European judges (4 former SSRs, 3 Eastern Euro, 2 Western Euro) so these results are not exactly unexpected...

Credit to Sima fighting and not putting that second foot down, like I said. :yes: Wakaba also had a turn-out in her combo, plus the lipping, and one judge gave her 0. Most gave her -1. We can debate the PCS, but I don't see any discrepancy in how they're judged relative to each other in TES.