2015 World Team Trophy Mens SP Apr 16

[karne]

I noticed this morning as soon as I woke up that the ISU had uploaded the full men's SP and I got really excited. Here, I bet they'll have it now! I gleefully thought.

But no. You fast-forward through the warmup in part 2, they call his name...and insta-skip to some slo-mo replays, in which the only thing I learn is that he has a new spin position (doing the catch in front now) and the end pose.

Dammit, ISU.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Lololol That one judge's PCSs for Voronov...

I'm assuming that whole column is Lolita, The Russian judge,
It always baffles me though, She must've known no one else but her would give him 9's ( ) for components and +2 on almost everything,
So why put herself out there as a shady judge when she would have her scores eliminated anyways (Since they're the highest).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Also, regarding Kovtun sent over Gachinski to Euros and Worlds, a lot of that was based on Kovtun's solid JGPF (1st - essentially clean skates, including a FS with a quad and two 3A) and Gachinski's poor skates on the GP (7th and 9th places).

Kovtun at the JGPF earned over 222 points overall, and 149.78 points in the FS (225 overall and 150+, if he had been allowed a second footwork sequence). Comparatively, Gachinski's grand prix FS scores that season were 135.77 at Rostelecom (209.84 total) and 129.84 at Skate Canada (199.58 total). At Russian Nationals, Kovtun was only 3-4 points overall behind Gachinski and Menshov (who the fed hates and screwed over anyways). Beating Kovtun by 3 points at Nationals is hardly a case to send Gachinski definitively to Euros, especially when he had bombed his international events -- yes, he's a former World bronze medalist, but he was pretty bad (other than 2012 Euros) since then, and was certainly doing poorly on the GP in the pre-Olympics season so the Russian Fed probably wasn't too keen on putting their chances in him. Seeing that Kovtun delivered 2 international freeskates around 150 (over 150, if the FS had an extra sequence), while Gachinski had barely cracked 135 on the Grand Prix, it seemed that sending Kovtun made more sense to the Fed for Euros.

Following 2013 Russian Nats, Kovtun's FS score at Euros was 152 points which was way ahead of Voronov's FS score of 131, and Kovtun ended up 16 points ahead of Voronov overall. Arguably, Voronov deserved the Worlds spot over Kovtun (I mean, he had a GP bronze at least, that season), but even still Voronov would have needed skates of his life to end up qualifying 2 spots for Russia since the judges weren't giving him particularly good PCS (his PCS at NHK was less than Kovtun's PCS at the Junior GPF). And Euros sealed Voronov's World chances, with Kovtun beating him so soundly.

So, while it seemed unfair for Kovtun to be sent over Gachinski, Voronov and Menshov to Euros/Worlds, it kinda made sense (even if it didn't get the result of 2 spots -- not that the Russian fed would have got them with Gachinski/Menshov/Voronov).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I said rarely completed two quad Sps. He doesn't accomplish it. Falls and pops all season! I consider completed as two landed.

Yes it's a battle of special treatment of both plushenko and kovtun! But I support plushenko special treatment because of all his major success! Kovtun should be nowhere near plushenko even in special treatment pcs scores. In a perfect fs world with no special treatment voronov or menshov would've been in sochi! But it wasn't that way.

The point about gachinski was only that gachinski beat kovtun at nationals. Neither should've been anywhere near euros or worlds. That needed to be menshov in 2013 for that euros spot. Plushenko, voronov, menshov substitute gachinski

Kovtun did bomb euros 2013. Double axel in sp and fs second half collapse

I said kovtun was actually really good in the fs at 2014 teb!

Other than Menshov, he's the only skater this season to have completed an SP with two clean quads.

He's the only skater ever to have done an SP with 2 clean quads in more than one competition. Other than Reynolds, he's the only skater to have ever attempted 5 quads in one competition.

As for his 2nd half collapse in 2013 Euros FS, there was no such thing. Yes, he Zayaked his 3S+2T by doing a 4th combo, but that's not a "collapse" error. He still landed 2 quads and 2 triple axels -- which is another reason the fed probably sent him to Worlds, because he was the only Russian man that season to land a quad in the SP and a two quads in the FS -- and even with the Zayak he still gave pretty much a "clean" FS. Voronov at Euros unfortunately had a cost Zayak on his 2A+3T+2T because he turned a 4T+3T into a 3T+3T -- but he also doubled a 3F, and had a UR 3A with a bad landing. Too bad, because he had a clean SP.

 

[gmyers]

I'm assuming that whole column is Lolita, The Russian judge,
It always baffles me though, She must've known no one else but her would give him 9's ( ) for components and +2 on almost everything,
So why put herself out there as a shady judge when she would have her scores eliminated anyways (Since they're the highest).

Yes but it's cover for allies who are free then to give lower 9s upper 8s

Also, regarding Kovtun sent over Gachinski to Euros and Worlds, a lot of that was based on Kovtun's solid JGPF (1st - essentially clean skates, including a FS with a quad and two 3A) and Gachinski's poor skates on the GP (7th and 9th places).

Kovtun at the JGPF earned over 222 points overall, and 149.78 points in the FS (225 overall and 150+, if he had been allowed a second footwork sequence). Comparatively, Gachinski's grand prix FS scores that season were 135.77 at Rostelecom (209.84 total) and 129.84 at Skate Canada (199.58 total). At Russian Nationals, Kovtun was only 3-4 points overall behind Gachinski and Menshov (who the fed hates and screwed over anyways). Beating Kovtun by 3 points at Nationals is hardly a case to send Gachinski definitively to Euros, especially when he had bombed his international events -- yes, he's a former World bronze medalist, but he was pretty bad (other than 2012 Euros) since then, and was certainly doing poorly on the GP in the pre-Olympics season so the Russian Fed probably wasn't too keen on putting their chances in him. Seeing that Kovtun delivered 2 international freeskates around 150 (over 150, if the FS had an extra sequence), while Gachinski had barely cracked 135 on the Grand Prix, it seemed that sending Kovtun made more sense to the Fed for Euros.

Following 2013 Russian Nats, Kovtun's FS score at Euros was 152 points which was way ahead of Voronov's FS score of 131, and Kovtun ended up 16 points ahead of Voronov overall. Arguably, Voronov deserved the Worlds spot over Kovtun (I mean, he had a GP bronze at least, that season), but even still Voronov would have needed skates of his life to end up qualifying 2 spots for Russia since the judges weren't giving him particularly good PCS (his PCS at NHK was less than Kovtun's PCS at the Junior GPF). And Euros sealed Voronov's World chances, with Kovtun beating him so soundly.

So, while it seemed unfair for Kovtun to be sent over Gachinski, Voronov and Menshov to Euros/Worlds, it kinda made sense (even if it didn't get the result of 2 spots -- not that the Russian fed would have got them with Gachinski/Menshov/Voronov).

Kovtun was supposed to be extrmely better than menshov and gachinski not just 4 points worse!

Other than Menshov, he's the only skater this season to have completed an SP with two clean quads.

He's the only skater ever to have done an SP with 2 clean quads in more than one competition. Other than Reynolds, he's the only skater to have ever attempted 5 quads in one competition.

As for his 2nd half collapse in 2013 Euros FS, there was no such thing. Yes, he Zayaked his 3S+2T by doing a 4th combo, but that's not a "collapse" error. He still landed 2 quads and 2 triple axels -- which is another reason the fed probably sent him to Worlds, because he was the only Russian man that season to land a quad in the SP and a two quads in the FS -- and even with the Zayak he still gave pretty much a "clean" FS. Voronov at Euros unfortunately had a cost Zayak on his 2A+3T+2T because he turned a 4T+3T into a 3T+3T -- but he also doubled a 3F, and had a UR 3A with a bad landing. Too bad, because he had a clean SP.

2013 worlds has the post halfway point collapse not euros -euros does have the zayak .

 

[Mrs. P]

So why is the WTT Men's SP the Maxim Kovtun thread? :think: He's gotten more post then the seven people who finished above him!

My two cents: I don't see why we can have a more nuanced discussion about Kovtun without resorting to "hater" or "boohoo he's so hated by fans" status.

My take on Kovtun is that when he brings the quads and the 3As, he is a forced to be reckoned with, but I think it's done to cover quite a few weaknesses, which is why, even with execution of quads and 3As, he doesn't get those super high scores relative to others who also do the quads. And when those quads and 3As are MIA or not cleanly executed, there isn't much left to hold him up. He doesn't do a flip or a loop.

I do think Kovtun has sincerely tried to improve his artistic weaknesses, especially in reaching out to Charlie White during their time on The Ice to work on step sequences, but it's definitely still a work in progress. I also think he does tend to do a lot of reprogramming on the fly to make up points when me makes an error, which means he doesn't give up as others claim.

So today, he had a major step out on the 4S and a 3A<. He isn't necessarily the best at the non-jump stuff, so the result a TES of 36.58. For comparison (on TES only), Jason Brown got 36.50 with a 4T<<, 3A< and a 3F-3T(x) at 4CC SP, but he made up for those DG/UR with his spins and steps. Kovtun's score is similar, despite fewer URs because 1.) he front loaded all this jumps and 2.) his spins and step levels + GOE held him back.

I think Maxim is talented and had moments of brilliance this season, but it's clear there are some stuff he has to work on in the off-season (like every skater out there ).

 

[daphenaxa]

My baby Han Yan did so well today that was really beautiful. Still problematic on the 4t but the rest was perf!! Now he can say adios to this very unfortunate choice of music and work on a stellar program for next season.

My other baby Yuzu was so upset, that was quite sad. But I think he still skated really well.

On another note, ISU really should stop with this judges' anonymity thing. Literally, the scores are all over the place!!

 

[SashaJuliaSpins]

That Russian split is really incredible. Especially in slow motion. Looks like he could stay up there and have a leisurely cup of tea if he wanted to

It was indeed a thing of beauty! I'd join him for the leisurely cup of tea!

I could watch that Russian split on replay fo hours, it's a move I really like, looks powerful but fun. And Jason really makes it justice. :agree:

U could hear the gasp from the audience when he hit the split! I could start with his hair but I don't think they score it!

 

[Mrs. P]

Someone (ahem, Sam or sabinfire) needs to do a Jason Russian-spilt-a-tron complete wtih Matrix-style video effects! Someone make this happen PLEASE!!

 

[sabinfire]

Someone (ahem, Sam or sabinfire) needs to do a Jason Russian-spilt-a-tron complete wtih Matrix-style video effects! Someone make this happen PLEASE!!

Is there a really good HD source out there (other than the captured live-streams)? I mean, most of the ISU livestreams (including mine) aren't bad, just curious if anyone has a link to a Japanese TV broadcast in HD handy.

 

[Mrs. P]

Is there a really good HD source out there (other than the captured live-streams)? I mean, most of the ISU livestreams (including mine) aren't bad, just curious if anyone has a link to a Japanese TV broadcast in HD handy.

Are you talk about just WTT or in general?

 

[Rissa]

I'm assuming that whole column is Lolita, The Russian judge,
It always baffles me though, She must've known no one else but her would give him 9's ( ) for components and +2 on almost everything,
So why put herself out there as a shady judge when she would have her scores eliminated anyways (Since they're the highest).

My theory: some judges deliberately overscore a skater they particularly favor, precisely because they know that the highest score would be eliminated. They want to make sure the next high score stays in. If they suspect another judge might give Kovtun 8.75, they want that 8.75 to count so they give 8.75 too or 9 just in case.

 

[sabinfire]

Are you talk about just WTT or in general?

Oh, I guess with WTT on my mind and this being a WTT thread, I thought you may have had in mind WTT footage. Sleep deprivation is a problem once again. Have plenty of stuff from past events, of course.

 

[Mrs. P]

Oh, I guess with WTT on my mind and this being a WTT thread, I thought you may have had in mind WTT footage. Sleep deprivation is a problem once again. Have plenty of stuff from past events, of course.

Well WTT footage of course -- but yeah, figure you could use other events as well. But yeah, let's hope we'll see some Japanese coverage soon!! WTT needs to be included!

Haha, thank goodness this is the last event of the season -- you probably need a vacation!

 

[dorispulaski]

The wtt footage by Japan Figure Skating on dailymotion is of Japanese TV. I am just sad he had not uploaded more stuff.

 

[Mrs. P]

The wtt footage by Japan Figure Skating on dailymotion is of Japanese TV. I am just sad he had not uploaded more stuff.

The person has to sleep sometime. I'm thinking we'll see more stuff later on today or tomorrow!

 

[gmyers]

So why is the WTT Men's SP the Maxim Kovtun thread? :think: He's gotten more post then the seven people who finished above him!

My two cents: I don't see why we can have a more nuanced discussion about Kovtun without resorting to "hater" or "boohoo he's so hated by fans" status.

My take on Kovtun is that when he brings the quads and the 3As, he is a forced to be reckoned with, but I think it's done to cover quite a few weaknesses, which is why, even with execution of quads and 3As, he doesn't get those super high scores relative to others who also do the quads. And when those quads and 3As are MIA or not cleanly executed, there isn't much left to hold him up. He doesn't do a flip or a loop.

I do think Kovtun has sincerely tried to improve his artistic weaknesses, especially in reaching out to Charlie White during their time on The Ice to work on step sequences, but it's definitely still a work in progress. I also think he does tend to do a lot of reprogramming on the fly to make up points when me makes an error, which means he doesn't give up as others claim.

So today, he had a major step out on the 4S and a 3A<. He isn't necessarily the best at the non-jump stuff, so the result a TES of 36.58. For comparison (on TES only), Jason Brown got 36.50 with a 4T<<, 3A< and a 3F-3T(x) at 4CC SP, but he made up for those DG/UR with his spins and steps. Kovtun's score is similar, despite fewer URs because 1.) he front loaded all this jumps and 2.) his spins and step levels + GOE held him back.

I think Maxim is talented and had moments of brilliance this season, but it's clear there are some stuff he has to work on in the off-season (like every skater out there ).

No flip no loop FUSPs for spins. All energy on two different types of quads and triple axels he's not even consistent with. Three jumping passss with double axels and triple salchow jumps.

 

[sabinfire]

Any video of Max's SP surface yet? I found it by accident.

 

[Mrs. P]

Any video of Max's SP surface yet? I found it by accident.

Not yet! Please post. (to the video thread too)

 

[sabinfire]

The quality isn't great and it's buried behind a bunch of Chinese/Japanese software, I'd have to re-post for GS.