2015 Cup of China Ladies Free Skate

[largeman]

Not much to add here - I watched most of the top ladies on the B. Eurosport Videos. Why did Nicky and Chris keep saying the Japan Open was not an international competition during Mao's program? Otherwise, I did like their commentary.

Yeah I think they meant "non-international" as in "the results are not counted as ISU official international competition scores." What was jarring for me was to hear them say again and again that Mao is a two-time world champion, during both the SP and the FS. I mean come-on . Also they said with this win, Mao becomes the first to win all GP events... when she actually achieved that in 2012 already. Oh well, details I love Chris and Nicky anyway.

Why the **** are people so hung up on the Lutz (not just with Mao but in general)? People try to use this argument that skaters who flutz are terrible skaters. They always like to focus on this one jump (most prominent during Yuna vs Mao). Actually, why are people nitpicking on the UR and edge when she got penalized for them? A jump that has some under rotation or an edge call but otherwise looks great (especially if you have to make a call using slow-motion replay) doesn't necessarily deserve negative GOE (ESPECIALLY when there's already a reduction in base value!) and certainly shouldn't be reflected in the components.

I agree that with today rules, the wrong takeoff edge is penalized adequately.

I can, however, understand people's fixation on the takeoff edge and the view that a flutzer is technically deficient or even "not considered a complete skater." I myself always feel that Mao's flutz detracts from her otherwise beautiful performances, even more than her underrotations do. The takeoff edge is such a big part of why the lutz is a gorgeous (and technically challenging) jump. So a flutz, even with all the nice qualities it may have when Mao does it, just doesn't deserve the same BV (and I am happy the current scoring rules reflect that).

I agree with you that this should not affect PCS though :agree2: (in theory)

 

[treeloving]

Fluzt should not affect pcs at all according to COP, I don't understand why some think it should.

 

[Skater Boy]

I just realized how gifted Joannie Rochette, Michelle Kwan et al are for having a full arsenal of triples. It seems so many ladies cannot do all the triples. Not even the great Mao or Yuna.

 

[largeman]

I just realized how gifted Joannie Rochette, Michelle Kwan et al are for having a full arsenal of triples. It seems so many ladies cannot do all the triples. Not even the great Mao or Yuna.

This is what makes Liza so remarkable. There has been no one like her when it comes to ticking every box: all 6 types of triples, never a doubt about rotation, never a doubt about takeoff edge, quality, technique... Whomever we root for because of our style or aesthetic preferences, sometimes we just need to take a step back and recognize what an incredible jumper Liza is and appreciate the fact we are lucky enough to witness such a talent compete and evolve.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I just realized how gifted Joannie Rochette, Michelle Kwan et al are for having a full arsenal of triples. It seems so many ladies cannot do all the triples. Not even the great Mao or Yuna.

...full arsenal? I don't recall them ever doing 3A in competition. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[hippomoomin]

:clapper:That's called selective perception.

...full arsenal? I don't recall them ever doing 3A in competition. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[solani]

...full arsenal? I don't recall them ever doing 3A in competition. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Haha no. I feel the need to sum it up: We got three ladies - Midori, Tonya and Elizaveta.

 

[solar]

misread a post... whoops

 

[Crossover]

I just realized how gifted Joannie Rochette, Michelle Kwan et al are for having a full arsenal of triples. It seems so many ladies cannot do all the triples. Not even the great Mao or Yuna.

Haha, Rochette and Kwan barely hit 3-3. Besides Kwan was a flutzer, so your post sounds very unconvincing.

 

[iamchrislao]

just a thought: Rika's programs suit Julia Lipnitskaia!!! Seriously! circus-like flexibility, etc. hahahaha

 

[iamchrislao]

Completely agree!!! mao and yuna are way more talented jumpers than those two, not to mention they don't do 3-3s on a regular basis, and michelle flutzed. This is not to take away from joannie and michelle. These two are wonderful skaters, especially michelle. She's a legend. The consistency is just uncanny. 5 world crowns, 2 olympic medals and countless other titles.

...full arsenal? I don't recall them ever doing 3A in competition. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[mary01]

Haha no. I feel the need to sum it up: We got three ladies - Midori, Tonya and Elizaveta.

and Mao, because Mao has gotten the lutz ratified several times in the past, she has also completed the set of all kind of jumps in competition!

 

[solani]

and Mao, because Mao has gotten the lutz ratified several times in the past, she has also completed the set of all kind of jumps in competition!

I don't agree. I love Mao and for me it isn't a problem that she has issues with the edge on her lutz. She is great anyway and I admire her for trying to fix it, because she doesn't need to fix it. With the right layout she can win any competition. She might have gotten the lutz ratified on several occasions, but it was never a clean lutz. But she might join the trio in the future!

 

[mary01]

I don't agree. I love Mao and for me it isn't a problem that she has issues with the edge on her lutz. She is great anyway and I admire her for trying to fix it, because she doesn't need to fix it. With the right layout she can win any competition. She might have gotten the lutz ratified on several occasions, but it was never a clean lutz. But she might join the trio in the future!

I disagree, it was a lutz during the 2008/2009 season, it wasn't as aesthetically pleasing as it looks today, but it was with a clear outside edge, on paper too, so she joined the trio waaay back, but I think her current lutz looks much bigger and has potential to receive bigger goe once she does it like what we saw in practice.

 

[solani]

I disagree, it was a lutz during the 2008/2009 season, it wasn't as aesthetically pleasing as it looks today, but it was with a clear outside edge, on paper too, so she joined the trio waaay back, but I think her current lutz looks much bigger and has potential to receive bigger goe once she does it like what we saw in practice.

Wasn't that the season she did NO lutz in the FS?

 

[largeman]

Wasn't that the season she did NO lutz in the FS?

You're right! Funny enough she did it in the Short. She got a 3Lz with +0.60 at NHK and 3Lz with +0.80 at GPF. To be honest, in slow-motion on youtube it looks ! to me at best, and I think the practice ones she's been doing this weekend (and the 2Lz in the FS) looked better in terms of edge.

 

[mary01]

Wasn't that the season she did NO lutz in the FS?

She had a ratisfied 3lz with good edge at 2008 NHK trophy and at the GPF, both in the short program. that was in the 2008-2009 season when she worked with tarasova. Next season she completely abdoned the jump and focused on the 3A and by 2010-2011 she went back to old habits until this season when she seems to be getting it back under Sato.

 

[solani]

she had a ratisfied 3lz with good edge at 2008 NHK trophy and at the GPF, both in the short program. that was in the 2008-2009 season when she worked with tarasova. Next season she completely abdoned the jump and focused on the 3A and by 2010-2011 she went back to old habits until this season when she seems to be getting it back under Sato.

I don't deny that it was ratified and I don't deny that it was a beautiful jump, but it was a flutz. But you shouldn't forget that this was the season were some people were nitpicking on Yuna's flip, also the judges and I think this might be the reason some of Mao's lutzes were ratified.

 

[mary01]

I don't deny that it was ratified and I don't deny that it was a beautiful jump, but it was a flutz. But you shouldn't forget that this was the season were some people were nitpicking on Yuna's flip, also the judges and I think this might be the reason some of Mao's lutzes were ratified.

If it wasn't a lutz with good edge it wouldn't have been ratified that season, and it was from several tech panels, and it also received good goe from the judges, and even the commentators praised her for it. if you still don't want to accept this reality, it's your problem!

 

[solani]

If it wasn't a lutz with good edge it wouldn't have been ratified that season, and it was from several tech panels, and it also received good goe from the judges, and even the commentators praised her for it. if you still don't want to accept this reality, it's your problem!

As long as I have properly functioning eyes I won't accept this "reality". :dev3:
Anyway, I never wanted to discuss Mao's lutz in the first place, she is one of the very few female figure skaters with 5 clean triples. I just wanted to point out the 3 with 6 clean triples.