2016 ISU Congress

[Mathman]

A-ha!!! See? I knew Leonhard Euler had something to do with figure skating!

This is unrelated to the formula about e ^(i theta), but ...Euler’s Second Law (q,v.) extends Newton’s laws concerning angular momentum to the case of an extended three-dimensional rigid body (“Theoria motus corporum solidorum seu rigidorum,” 1765). Keep you body stiff while you are spinning and pull in your arms. You will spin faster. (Do not change positions. No haircutters. Biellman's just make you topple over. )

 

[ice coverage]

New ISU document today:

ISU Communication No. 2014
Single & Pair Skating
Some changes in General Regulations, Special Regulations and Technical Rules accepted by the 56th ISU Congress

http://static.isu.org/media/339062/2014-sandp_changes-accepted-by-the-2016-isu-congress.pdf (four-page PDF)​

From:

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...l-and-special-regulations-and-technical-rules (Jun 15)​

 

[Meoima]

Comparison of PCS before and after http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/005G2DRcgw1f4wj22n393j316o1kwngm.jpg

:handw::handw::handw:

 

[Rissa]

So freaking MAD that programs have likely been shortened and that there will be a new draw procedure to ensure that the top 2-3 always get to skate last. Kill me. Way to further prevent people coming from behind to win a medal and make it easier for judges to "save" their best marks for last.

If the abolishment of anonymous judging comes at this price :noshake:.

If programs have NOT been shortened and the one less jump element will be substituted by a 2nd choreography sequence or something of that nature, I can live with that, I guess.

But seriously, changing the draw to ensure the top 3 after the SP skate last is unnecessary and seriously hurts the event in cases where the top 4/5/6 are very very very close to the top 3, like at the ladies LP at Worlds this year. Sure, let's hold back showstoppers like Ashley Wagner from bringing down the house at the end of the night because she skated early in the SP and didn't place top 3! NO!

Give everyone in the top 6 a fair shake at getting to skate later. Then again, this wouldn't matter so much if judges didn't hold back marks. Sigh.

You do realize that "coming from behind" so to speak, happens as often in the SP as in in the LP and skaters who did brilliantly in the SP are sometimes held back in the LP just because the skated earlier? You give the example of Ashley, and I agree, but many have voiced the opinion that Pogo should have been ahead of Ashley and the only reason she wasn't was because she skated earlier. It goes both ways. Actually showstoppers, in my opinion, are likely to get great scores no matter the skating order brcause they are, well, showstoppers.

And from the entertainment POV the rule does make sense. It's a bit of a bummer if a skater who has no chance to be on the podium skates last, like, who cares? Of course it could still happen now but not as often.

About the removal of one jumping pass: from the discussion at FSU I understand it was supposed to be for Men and Pairs.

 

[Ice Dance]

And from the entertainment POV the rule does make sense. It's a bit of a bummer if a skater who has no chance to be on the podium skates last, like, who cares? Of course it could still happen now but not as often.

I care. I enjoyed Jason's LP last season very much and in part because I didn't have to listen to the commentators try to convince us he had a shot at winning. I could just enjoy the performance.

I almost always find the GP events more boring because of the defined start order. I want the judges to have to do their job, not just keep handing out higher scores because they know the favorite is coming up later. From an entertainment standpoint, I want a fair competition. Anything else, IMO, does not equal entertainment. Or a sport.

Perhaps we will now see more upsets from outside the final warm-up group, but I don't see evidence of that based on years of GP results.

 

[gkelly]

You do realize that "coming from behind" so to speak, happens as often in the SP as in in the LP

How? Everyone starts the SP with the same 0 points.

At most, in events that seed the SP draw, the earlier skaters may be at a disadvantage in terms of skate order as well as reputation, but they're not starting out "behind" in this competition itself.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Comparison of PCS before and after http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/005G2DRcgw1f4wj22n393j316o1kwngm.jpg

:handw::handw::handw:

If "originality of composition" is now a criteria hopefully that will be seen as a mark against warhorses.

 

[gkelly]

If "originality of composition" is now a criteria hopefully that will be seen as a mark against warhorses.

The composition of the program, not the choice of musical composition.

A program with original choreographic ideas to overused music would still score higher there than a generic program to unfamiliar music.

 

[ice coverage]

The short program hasn't actually been shortened. In theory, for some skaters it may have been lengthened.

It had been 2:50 maximum. So anything over 2:50 would get a deduction, but anything under was fine, even it was much shorter.

Now the length is defined as 2:40 +/- 10 seconds, similar to the way freeskate lengths are defined. So 2:50 is still legal, 2:51 or longer would still get a deduction, and now 2:29 or shorter would also get a deduction.

And the new halfway point is 1:20 instead of 1:25.

Stupid questions:

Is it possible that the five-second difference would help some skaters delay their second jumping pass until the second half of the program to get the 10% bonus?

Or will the five seconds be negligible in that respect? Meaning that if their second jumping pass has not been choreographed after the 1:25 mark in past seasons, it likely will not be choreographed after the 1:20 mark this coming season?

 

[Rissa]

I care. I enjoyed Jason's LP last season very much and in part because I didn't have to listen to the commentators try to convince us he had a shot at winning. I could just enjoy the performance.

I almost always find the GP events more boring because of the defined start order. I want the judges to have to do their job, not just keep handing out higher scores because they know the favorite is coming up later. From an entertainment standpoint, I want a fair competition. Anything else, IMO, does not equal entertainment. Or a sport.

Perhaps we will now see more upsets from outside the final warm-up group, but I don't see evidence of that based on years of GP results.

Good for you I guess.

But while audience can enjoy any good performance, the fact that it's a competition being watched, as opposed to the show, means the placement chances matter and watching a performance that is going to be overall irrelevant at that point is much less exciting for most than a performance that could upset the leaders order.

How? Everyone starts the SP with the same 0 points.

What I meant that in SP there are skaters who do unexpectedly well. I should have worded it better.

 

[daphenaxa]

wow i am really against the reduction of one jumping pass but tbh especially in the pairs. They don't jump all that much to begin with!!! Are they gonna have to do only one side by side or one throw? That's a really weird decision tbh.

 

[Ares]

And the new halfway point is 1:20 instead of 1:25.

Stupid questions:

Is it possible that the five-second difference would help some skaters delay their second jumping pass until the second half of the program to get the 10% bonus?

Or will the five seconds be negligible in that respect? Meaning that if their second jumping pass has not been choreographed after the 1:25 mark in past seasons, it likely will not be choreographed after the 1:20 mark this coming season?

5 secs is negligible but If I recall correctly one of Pogorilaya jumps in SP was placed just few seconds before 2nd half so she could benefit from that if that was the rule.

 

[Rissa]

wow i am really against the reduction of one jumping pass but tbh especially in the pairs. They don't jump all that much to begin with!!! Are they gonna have to do only one side by side or one throw? That's a really weird decision tbh.

In Pairs yes, it's not good but what I'm mostly against regarding Men is the shortening of the program more that throwing out a jumping pass. It'd give other elements (spins, steps) more weight. On the other hand it'd give quads more weight too... unless the jumping pass to be thrown out was a combo, but it'd be a shame. I'd love it if they threw out a jumping pass but added another step/choreo sequence, lol.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I like that the LP will be skated in the reverse order of placement. We all know that skating later is an advantage, so I prefer seeing that advantage "earned" rather than given randomly.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I like that the LP will be skated in the reverse order of placement. We all know that skating later is an advantage, so I prefer seeing that advantage "earned" rather than given randomly.

Ah, but it is not a pure reverse order draw like they have in ski jumping and alpine skiing. That would be too sensible! :sarcasm:

Here is what the new rule says:

Rule 513, paragraph 2, Draws for starting order in Free Skating
For ISU Events, OWG and WYOG the last two groups are divided into 2 sub-groups each (top 3+next 3 in Singles, top 2+next 2 in Pairs, top 3+next 2 in Ice Dance) with a separate draw in each sub-group. The best placed skaters in Short skate in the “later skating” sub-group.

Source: http://static.isu.org/media/339062/2014-sandp_changes-accepted-by-the-2016-isu-congress.pdf​

They had the opportunity to do something that would greatly improve the spectacle of the competition for everybody watching, and they've made a hash of it!

---

There has been another PDF released:

Communication No. 2017
Decisions of the ISU Council
http://static.isu.org/media/339560/2017-decisions-of-the-isu-council-dubrovnik.pdf​

I've picked out a couple of things.

Firstly, as well as being a full member of the figure skating branch, the Ice Skating Association of Ireland is now a provisional member speed skating branch as well.

I know this won't matter much to most of you. But, hopefully the ISAI being affiliated to more than one branch of the ISU will give impetus to the campaign to get a permanent full-sized ice rink in the South. It's not fair on Southern skaters or their teams that they have to travel up here to the North just to get proper practice.


If you skip through to the final page, that is where you find the big announcement. Changing countries.

At the start of May, I highlighted the proposal in this post, and told you that it can be found on page 50 of the VERY long PDF.

Well, the ISU council's proposal has indeed been passed. HOWEVER, there have been some changes to point 2. c)

In the proposal, the embargo period was 18 months for ISU run events, and 12 months for others.

In the accepted revision, the embargo period has been unified, and is now 12 months for any event (ISU run or otherwise).

Well, the embargo may still be there, but at least bringing it down is a step in the right direction!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[AlexRus]

There has been another PDF released:

Communication No. 2017
Decisions of the ISU Council
http://static.isu.org/media/339560/2017-decisions-of-the-isu-council-dubrovnik.pdf​

The required Minimum Technical Elements Score (...) to participate in Senior ISU Championships (...) can only be obtained in Senior International Competitions

Previously - both at Senior and Junior competitions.

Is this change good? I believe not. Why?

1. Nikol Gosviani qualified to Euro at Nats (24-28 Dec 2012), she had no minimum TES because did not compete internationally. In very short time before Euro (21-27 Jan 2013) she competed only as Junior in Poland (9-12 Jan 2013) and got technical score. In so short time RusFed could include her only to Junior list of this competition, in Senior it would be much more difficult (because Seniors obtain World Standing points and new pretenders to these points are not welcome). She was 6th at Euro, so her technical level was absolutely adequate.

2. Polina Edmunds was JGP Finalist at season 2013-2014, at US Championchips (05-12 Jan 2014) she earned the Olympics spot. If her Junior technical score would not be counted, she would need to compete at Senior B in very short time.
She was 9th at Olympics, so her level was no doubt adequate.

We see several cases when not-counting of Junior technical score could make unneeded problems for skaters who no doubt were good enough for Championships or Olympics.​

 

[grotesm1]

Basically, the new draw rule is a compromise to keep both the TV people and the skaters happy. The TV people didn’t like having to show a skater who had no chance of winning as the last skater in a group (i.e. Shoma Uno in Men at this year’s Worlds). At the same time, skaters who consistently finished 1st in the Short didn’t like always having to skate last in the Free Skate (40 minutes or so after the warm-up is a long time to keep muscles loose and warm).

Now skaters who finish 1st or 2nd in the Short will at least have a chance to draw not to skate last. At the same time, the TV people will get the drama they want with the best skaters from the Short “fighting it out” for first place at the end of the competition.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, grotesm1, and thanks for joining us. Post often, post long!

 

[Rissa]

Now skaters who finish 1st or 2nd in the Short will at least have a chance to draw not to skate last. At the same time, the TV people will get the drama they want with the best skaters from the Short “fighting it out” for first place at the end of the competition.

They have always had a chance to draw not to skate last in championship competitions, they even had a chance to draw first in the group, right after warmup. In Boston Hanyu who was first after SP drew the second starting slot.

 

[Pamigena]

They have always had a chance to draw not to skate last in championship competitions, they even had a chance to draw first in the group, right after warmup. In Boston Hanyu who was first after SP drew the second starting slot.

The first 3 after the SP now have zero chance that they'll have to skate first, second or third in the free skate, but the chance that they'll have to skate last has actually increased, because now they draw 1 out of 3 and no longer 1 out of 6 .....Right? :roll9: