2016 ISU Congress

[StitchMonkey]

The first 3 after the SP now have zero chance that they'll have to skate first, second or third in the free skate, but the chance that they'll have to skate last has actually increased, because now they draw 1 out of 3 and no longer 1 out of 6 .....Right? :roll9:

Yep... that is one way to look at it.

Likewise the person in 4th has a higher chance of having to skate first after the warm up... another least desirable spot... and I think most people are ok with the 4th place skater (at least) having a chance to move up.

This seems like a well meaning attempt at a compromise... but I think it is just silly and more needless rules. If drama was so important, go with reverse skating order... at least that is consistent and thus has an argument that it is fair. At least then people would know what to expect.

 

[Rissa]

At least then people would know what to expect.

Maybe that's their idea of drama: let us kinda know what to expect but not really...

Eh, personally I don't mind either way.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Maybe that's their idea of drama: let us kinda know what to expect but not really...

Eh, personally I don't mind either way.

I am sure i will learn to leave with it and not care that much... still i think it is my last choice of the three options.

 

[grotesm1]

The TV people wanted the rule to be no draw for the last two groups in the Free Skate. They wanted 1 through 10 in the Short to simply skate in reverse order in the last two groups in the Free Skate (like they do at Grand Prix events). But skaters like Hanyu and Ashley Wagner didn't want to have to automatically skate last after doing a good Short. Hence, the compromise. One way or the other, the random draw for places in the last groups in the Free Skate was going to be eliminated at the demand of the TV people (money talks...) but at least now there is some sort of draw. Skaters who finish 1st or 2nd in the Short have a 50-50 chance of not having to skate last.

It's still possible from someone who has a "bad Short" to end up on the podium even if they skate early. Jason Brown went from 8th after the Short to 3rd at last year's Skate America, and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva went from 7th to 2nd at last year's Skate Canada. Evgenia Medvedeva went from 3rd to 1st at last year's Worlds and she skated 1st in the last group.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

The TV people wanted the rule to be no draw for the last two groups in the Free Skate. They wanted 1 through 10 in the Short to simply skate in reverse order in the last two groups in the Free Skate (like they do at Grand Prix events). But skaters like Hanyu and Ashley Wagner didn't want to have to automatically skate last after doing a good Short. Hence, the compromise. One way or the other, the random draw for places in the last groups in the Free Skate was going to be eliminated at the demand of the TV people (money talks...) but at least now there is some sort of draw. Skaters who finish 1st or 2nd in the Short have a 50-50 chance of not having to skate last.

It's still possible from someone who has a "bad Short" to end up on the podium even if they skate early. Jason Brown went from 8th after the Short to 3rd at last year's Skate America, and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva went from 7th to 2nd at last year's Skate Canada. Evgenia Medvedeva went from 3rd to 1st at last year's Worlds and she skated 1st in the last group.

OK, I can understand your cynacism about the TV companies. If the skaters that are more likely to win are skating at the end, then the broadcasters can start their LIVE coverage later.

But, let's be blunt. Can you really see any TV channels starting their LIVE coverage of the FS in the middle of the final group? If you were only going to be showing the final 3 skaters, it would hardly be worth the hassle associated with showing it LIVE. It would be easier to just show it as a highlights package later on.

If a channel was not going to show the entire segment, they would most likely join at the end of the last resurfacing, or else at the start of the final group. And, in either case, this change to the draw would not make any difference to who is shown. It would still be the same 5 or 6 skaters in each group, and the only difference would be that the order would be slightly less mixed up. But, there would still be some mixing up.

So, in reality, very little change to what we had before. Which is a shame. Because, having it as a pure reverse order of the SP results would make the competition so much easier to follow.

As it is, whenever each skater comes on, you have to think "right, where were they compared to the one that's currently leading overall? And where were they compared to the SP leader? Are they in with a shot of winning, or a medal, or are they just skating for pride?" Trying to work all this out means that you don't really get to pay attention to the skater coming onto the ice, and you don't get a chance to get into the routine until after it has started. So, it does spoil the enjoyment of the skating.

With a SP reverse order draw, all you have to do is look to see how far they are ahead of the previous skater, and then you can start enjoying what is happening on the ice straight away.

But, alas, they have just re-jigged the existing system a little. Meaning we will still have to do all these calculations rather than just enjoying the skating.

Thanks a lot! :sarcasm: :disapp:

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Mathman]

^ I don't think that grotesme1's point about TV interests was that they wanted to show less live skating, but rather that they wanted to build to a big climax: this guy is good. This guy is really good. And now, ladies and gentlemen, the moment that you've all been waiting for!

About computing the medal chances of each skater, I think that what the TV people do instead is OK. As each takes his turn, they say, "Here's the current leader board. This guy needs 192.34 points to take over the lead." I guess it is more dramatic when the new guy does surge ahead -- and then the next one scores even higher. It's also cool, though, when an earlier entry slays one competitor after another and holds on for the victory. (The Horatius at the bridge scenario. )

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

^ I don't think that grotesme1's point about TV interests was that they wanted to show less live skating, but rather that they wanted to build to a big climax: this guy is good. This guy is really good. And now, ladies and gentlemen, the moment that you've all been waiting for!

That is what I love about the reverse orderdraw. It builds up the drama up to a climax. And, as grotesme1 pointed out about the random draw system, all too often, the last skater is not in contention, and we know who the winner is already. So, it is a bit of an anti-climax.

About computing the medal chances of each skater, I think that what the TV people do instead is OK. As each takes his turn, they say, "Here's the current leader board. This guy needs 192.34 points to take over the lead."

Ah, but that's assuming that you have commentators that are keeping track of what's going on. :agree: (The Eurosport guys are good commentators, but even they can get lost at times).

Or even assuming that you have commentators full stop.

As you say, if you have commentators in a language you understand that are on the ball, then this is not a problem. But, unfortunately, with so much of the figure skating not being shown on TV, it is increasingly becoming the norm that we have to watch online streams.

The internet is the only place that we can watch other countries' National Championships; Senior B's; Majors that aren't considered important enough to get TV coverage...

Unfortunately, the organisers of these competitions often neglect updating their Entries / Results Pages. And they either don't put up on-screen graphics or, if they do, don't put anything more than the shater's name on them.

In these instances, it can be very hard to keep track of what is going on if the random draw system is in use.

So, that is why I would be in favour of it being in the ISU rules that the Free Skate start order is the reverse of the SP results for EVERY figure skating competition.

I guess it is more dramatic when the new guy does surge ahead -- and then the next one scores even higher.

Exactly! :agree:

It's also cool, though, when an earlier entry slays one competitor after another and holds on for the victory. (The Horatius at the bridge scenario. )

But, that can still happen under the reverse order system if somebody does particularly well in the Free Skate! Mao Asada in the Sochi Free Skate is a good example.


But, hey, it ain't happening, so we have to live with random draws (albeit slightly less random than they were before) for a while longer.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[MaxSwagg]

I love it. What's the big deal? You earn your place to skate in the FS from the SP.

 

[el henry]

I actually think this is a disadvantage for the top SP finishers, and if I were them, I'd be :dev2: I don't think any skater *wants* to skate last, 45 minutes after skating in the warm-up.

I can see drama either way: in the slay count of an early high scorer, or the pressure on the top SP skater to keep their ranking. Should be interesting....

 

[visaliakid]

2016 ISU Congress Highlights

This is by far the most comprehensive report on any previous ISU Congress I have ever read. It provides a comprehensive overview and background on the elections; why and how Didier lost support of the delegates; how all the candidates for President were viewed by congress members that determined the outcome, and why Dijkema (pronounced: “Dike ma” with a stress on the first syllable) was elected.

The following caught my eye: "Another step to openness, at the next Congress in 2018 in Sevilla, Spain media persons will be accredited, and there were also discussions about a live stream of the whole congress."

Thank you to Klaus-Reinhold Kany for this great write-up! A MUST READ!

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/2016 ISU Congress.htm

 

[Snow63]

A simple dance lift may last 7 instead of 6 seconds at the most.

Oh, so they approved this one. Nice

Beginning in the summer of 2018, a pairs free program and men’s free program (with one less jumping element) will be 30 seconds shorter and have only four minutes.

Just noticed this.

In order to get a level 4 for a twist (seniors and juniors), a split is no longer mandatory.

I need the new ISU Handbooks, like, now!

 

[Mathman]

I like the new rule for men's free skate. Those four-and-a half-minute programs always seemed like they were about 30 seconds too long, with one too many jumping passes.

 

[Pamigena]

I like the new rule for men's free skate. Those four-and-a half-minute programs always seemed like they were about 30 seconds too lonmg, with one too many jumping passes.

Totally agree. Thank God the FS at Worlds will be 12 whole minutes shorter. I'm already making plans what I'll do with all that extra free time.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Totally agree. Thank God the FS at Worlds will be 12 whole minutes shorter. I'm already making plans what I'll do with all that extra free time.

I'm thinking about learning how to make my own butter so that 12 minutes will come in handy

 

[eppen]

Alas, do not forget the shortening of the warm-up by two minutes. Your extra time in FS goes up to whopping 20 minutes!

 

[Mathman]

With only 6 jumping passes men can do a layout like

4Lz
4T+3T
4S
4T
3A
3A+2T+2Lo

No wimpy triple Lutzes or half-loop combinations.

 

[Rissa]

The TV people wanted the rule to be no draw for the last two groups in the Free Skate. They wanted 1 through 10 in the Short to simply skate in reverse order in the last two groups in the Free Skate (like they do at Grand Prix events). But skaters like Hanyu and Ashley Wagner didn't want to have to automatically skate last after doing a good Short. Hence, the compromise. One way or the other, the random draw for places in the last groups in the Free Skate was going to be eliminated at the demand of the TV peoplez (money talks...) but at least now there is some sort of draw. Skaters who finish 1st or 2nd in the Short have a 50-50 chance of not having to skate last.

It's still possible from someone who has a "bad Short" to end up on the podium even if they skate early. Jason Brown went from 8th after the Short to 3rd at last year's Skate America, and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva went from 7th to 2nd at last year's Skate Canada. Evgenia Medvedeva went from 3rd to 1st at last year's Worlds and she skated 1st in the last group.

Let me be cynical the other way round: I think you're overestimating the interest thst TV people have in figure skating. I really don't think they cared enough to "want" or "demand" anything. On the contrary, I think it was all ISU's decision in order to draw he interest of the TV people.

That said, I really don't see why it's such a big deal. The change is minor, any given starting order has its pros and cons, and it will make the final result uncertain to the very end I think is a good thing.

 

[StitchMonkey]

With only 6 jumping passes men can do a layout like

4Lz
4T+3T
4S
4T
3A
3A+2T+2Lo

No wimpy triple Lutzes or half-loop combinations.

Is a 3F wimpy if it is part of a 3A+1/2Lo+3F combo? Because that seems a logical step for me. That would be worth more than a 2T+2Lo and crams in another triple.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Most male skaters are now going to be leaving out at least one Triple from their program, either the Flip or the Loop normally, but the Salchow will be chucked if not doing it as part of the 3-jump combo.

 

[leafygreens]

Yes! I'm so happy!

No more having to see my Queen with her persistent back troubles force herself into a position that will only make those problems worse! Skaters' backs all around the world are saved!

Of course the flexible skaters (and their fans) will complain...but as a fan of an unflexible skater (and someone with a screwed up back themselves) I say FINALLY SOME COMMON BLOODY SENSE from the ISU! People call to ban quads all the time "because the injuries!!!" but moan when a skater "doesn't have a good layback" but is forced to do so regardless of how much damage they might be doing to do it.

I agree. I don't know which skater you're talking about But if it men aren't required to do it then why should ladies? I am looking forward to seeing the creativity of other spins that will be performed besides the contorting Biellmanns. The ones who can really do a Biellman well can still do it. It's the best of all worlds to give this choice.

No spirals. No layback spins.

*sigh* Whatever became of ladies' figure skating?

But what is ladylike about hurting your back? :noshake: Remember skaters like Rachael Flatt and Nancy Kerrigan who despised layback because of their back problems. Now they can do something else that is not as dangerous for them. We wouldn't force skaters to do oversplits or things like that so I don't see why layback was ever required.

I agree with pretty much all the other changes, except for the shorter warmup time. I think this is going to be a disaster.