2017 Four Continents Free Dance

[SnowWhite]

Not a conspiracy, just the USA judge.



I don't remember them saying that about Carmen. They said something similar about their Olympic season FD and about their past programs in general.

They definitely said it about Carmen in something I watched. With the Olympic FD it was mostly about it not ending up being the story they wanted to tell, but with Carmen it more about there being so much further they felt they could have taken it. It was in the context of the interviewer saying they thought Carmen was V/M's best ever program.

 

[Mrs. P]

because if they're at their best they should break WR. I feel fairly ok with their score, p/c's WR got all level 4, v/m got only one level 3 here ,which is one more level 4 than gpf that's why they get SB, their pcs is lower than gpf so that's why I don't really think the score is "generally inflated". the shibs' score is weird tho I agree, now I really can't stop myself from believing what Mark Hanretty've said..

Even if it was true (which he provided no receipts) I don't see how that has bearing on the scores they earned.

Should we expect the Shibs to hire a hitman to go to Montreal? :sarcasm:

 

[all that]

They definitely said it about Carmen in something I watched. With the Olympic FD it was mostly about it not ending up being the story they wanted to tell, but with Carmen it more about there being so much further they felt they could have taken it. It was in the context of the interviewer saying they thought Carmen was V/M's best ever program.

It was here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehJ0UnOPmtc

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

because if they're at their best they should break WR. I feel fairly ok with their score, p/c's WR got all level 4, v/m got only one level 3 here ,which is one more level 4 than gpf that's why they get SB, their pcs is lower than gpf so that's why I don't really think the score is "generally inflated". the shibs' score is weird tho I agree, now I really can't stop myself from believing what Mark Hanretty've said..

The Shibs were able to score 113+ for their "Fix You" FD last season when this FD, no matter what you feel about it personally, is a more challenging program and more difficult in the areas that matter in the sporting aspect of ice dance. But believe in the conspiracy crap from someone who admitted he can't be objective about the Shibs if it makes you feel better about life. I hope the Shibs keep it up and improving their scores in ways their detractors cannot even believe.

 

[demarinis5]

Congrats to the podium finishers! I thought the Shibs and V/M were the class of the field at this event. That said,
all of the top teams were amazing! It was a great night of ice dancing!

 

[blackey]

The Shibs were able to score 113+ for their "Fix You" FD last season when this FD, no matter what you feel about it personally, is a more challenging program and more difficult in the areas that matter in the sporting aspect of ice dance. But believe in the conspiracy crap from someone who admitted he can't be objective about the Shibs if it makes you feel better about life. I hope the Shibs keep it up and improving their scores in ways their detractors cannot even believe.

chill, i'm not trying to detract them. I like them a lot, but it's a different thing that whether I think they deserve their score. I actually "personally" like them, but while I'm trying to be "objective" I just can't understand their score. if that make sense.

 

[NoNameFace]

The Shibs were able to score 113+ for their "Fix You" FD last season when this FD, no matter what you feel about it personally, is a more challenging program and more difficult in the areas that matter in the sporting aspect of ice dance. But believe in the conspiracy crap from someone who admitted he can't be objective about the Shibs if it makes you feel better about life. I hope the Shibs keep it up and improving their scores in ways their detractors cannot even believe.

I get that for some that level of execution can be 'weirdly unreal', but Maia and Alex are known for it and they started to use it as an asset, their trademark quality and more expose it in their programs from past 2 seasons. And if you're able to execute your stuff in that way, it gets easy on eyes, hence better perception, regardless of personal preferences for the program.

I mean - it's all about being consistently good, solid in doing stuff and then became better, then get recognized and rewarded. 115+ is not that shocking really considering almost 59 TES and overall polish and quality of that performance. And to be honest - I'd get them more closer in FD to Tessa and Scott, both programs are quite different for me, but same appealing, but today's performance of Virtue/Moir was not as sharp and precise like at GPF/Nationals, still very much engaging and captivating though, an asset of only top performers.

If you have goods, learn to flaunt them and use them for your own good. Shibutanis learned that lesson and bear the fruits now, who can blame them?

 

[Mrs. P]

I get that for some that level of execution can be 'weirdly unreal', but Maia and Alex are known for it and they started to use it as an asset, their trademark quality and more expose it in their programs from past 2 seasons. And if you're able to execute your stuff in that way, it gets easy on eyes, hence better perception, regardless of personal preferences for the program.

I mean - it's all about being consistently good, solid in doing stuff and then became better, then get recognized and rewarded. 115+ is not that shocking really considering almost 59 TES and overall polish and quality of that performance. And to be honest - I'd get them more closer in FD to Tessa and Scott, both programs are quite different for me, but same appealing, but today's performance of Virtue/Moir was not as sharp and precise like at GPF/Nationals, still very much engaging and captivating though, an asset of only top performers.

If you have goods, learn to flaunt them and use them for your own good. Shibutanis learned that lesson and bear the fruits now, who can blame them?

Yes. You only have to look just two years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1tRmVvTuG0) to see how much of a different team they have become. They always had strong basics, but didn't have the programs to show them off beyond the surface.

 

[bramweld]

Yes. You only have to look just two years ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1tRmVvTuG0) to see how much of a different team they have become. They always had strong basics, but didn't have the programs to show them off beyond the surface.

Its just basically the same movements improved to different music. They really don't have much range

 

[Plisskin]

I missed this competition and just saw the results...can someone tell me what Mark Hanretty said about the Shibs?

 

[Mrs. P]

Its just basically the same movements improved to different music. They really don't have much range

I'll grant that the movements are similar, however they are EXECUTED far better now then they were two years ago. They have tried to do the quiet-introverted programs before, Memoirs of a Geisha come to mind, but they never could execute the programs to make them powerful. That's the point that No Name Face is making.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

chill, i'm not trying to detract them. I like them a lot, but it's a different thing that whether I think they deserve their score. I actually "personally" like them, but while I'm trying to be "objective" I just can't understand their score. if that make sense.

Except you brought up Mark Hanretty who said some pretty nasty stuff about them and attempts to delegitimize them. He even went as far as try to malign them as people without actually saying anything. The other stuff I didn't mind. Think of it this way, the way I see Hanretty is the way a lot of Grishuk/Platov fans see Tracy Wilson. IMO, Wilson is my favorite commentator the rest of the time, but her commentary on Grishuk/Platov was really questionable at times and revealed some personal issue.

Now on to another topic, I agree with those who thinks U.S. judge Sharon Rogers needs to be investigated. Her scores were way too blatant. In no universe does Virtue/Moir deserve a SS score in the 8.00s. Placing them behind both the Shibs and C/B shows nationalistic judging at its most shameless.

I missed this competition and just saw the results...can someone tell me what Mark Hanretty said about the Shibs?

I'm catching up on the videos now, but my comments on Hanretty were due to his comments on TSL (after that video and Dave and Jonathan Beyer's Nationals recap I've decided to no longer watch TSL) where he almost made it personal and tried to spread a rumor about them but then stopped short from actually saying anything. I suspected he didn't like them when he started commentating at Worlds last season and kept attributing the Shibs' success to some American conspiracy or machine and was undermining them the whole time. I can handle critique, but there's something more to his commentary than actual critique.

 

[NoNameFace]

Its just basically the same movements improved to different music. They really don't have much range

I am fully aware that this program could be taken like you said and considered as 'lack of range'.

But for me, 'range' is quite vague/subjective term to describe, depending on team I'm addressing it to. Teams like Piper and Paul or Tessa and Scott have kind of 'conventional' diverse range among their material done during all years of competing and if they're all on board with that and feel comfortable with various stuff, can pull it off successfully, then it's a win-win for them and audience (or at least me in particular).

But then we could consider having 'range' in certain area/streamline/style, at least that's my opinion - Maia and Alex and Gabriella and Guillaume, maybe also Anna and Luca are having this kind of 'range', excelling themselves inside of certain convention (at least Maia and Alex could be considered as such looking at last 2 seasons), expanding certain direction taken technically/artistically etc.

For me, both approaches and 'range' interpretations are equally interesting and attention-worthy. As long as the team itself is feeling confident and comfortable with material, it's all good base to comprehend. Lately, I'd rather take superbly done program by team inside their preferred style/convention of expressing themselves over risky stuff done poorly or with no confidence. It all depends.

 

[blackey]

well, when someone's score getting increasing rapidly, you always tend to find some reason, at least for me, not saying i believed it.

 

[Barb]

V/M were not at their best and almost got a WR again. The Shibs got almost 4 points over their PB. P/C on the other hand skated their best FD and yet it wasn't enough for a SB. I was only referring to the fact the panel (especially technical panel) seemed more lenient here. We very rarely see level 4 for steps in the FD and yet both V/M and the Shibs got it this time.

Comparing P/C GPF VS EUROPEANS and Shibs GPF vs 4CC the most evident improvement from one competition to another were the Shibs.

 

[Mirunna]

Comparing P/C GPF VS EUROPEANS and Shibs GPF vs 4CC the most evident improvement from one competition to another were the Shibs.

If we are talking strictly as regards the FD I strongly disagree, I think that the improvements made by P/C in this department were huge.
If we are talking about the competition overall I agree, since P/C kind of messed up the SD at Europeans.

 

[Mrs. P]

I am fully aware that this program could be taken like you said and considered as 'lack of range'.

But for me, 'range' is quite vague/subjective term to describe, depending on team I'm addressing it to. Teams like Piper and Paul or Tessa and Scott have kind of 'conventional' diverse range among their material done during all years of competing and if they're all on board with that and feel comfortable with various stuff, can pull it off successfully, then it's a win-win for them and audience (or at least me in particular).

But then we could consider having 'range' in certain area/streamline/style, at least that's my opinion - Maia and Alex and Gabriella and Guillaume, maybe also Anna and Luca are having this kind of 'range', excelling themselves inside of certain convention (at least Maia and Alex could be considered as such looking at last 2 seasons), expanding certain direction taken technically/artistically etc.

For me, both approaches and 'range' interpretations are equally interesting and attention-worthy. As long as the team itself is feeling confident and comfortable with material, it's all good base to comprehend. Lately, I'd rather take superbly done program by team inside their preferred style/convention of expressing themselves over risky stuff done poorly or with no confidence. It all depends.

I agree with your points above. I do think the FD they haven't gone too crazy other than the Michael Jackson one from the Olympics, which I think didn't work well for them in hindsight. I guess it could be argued that there are similarities in their most successful FDs in their career-- Cinema Paradiso (2009-juniors), Nat King Cole (2011-when they grab bronze), Fix You (last season) and this year's Evoltuion. But I feel there are differences between all four too.

I think my other issue with the "lack of range" claim is that they have done three successful SDs, which by their nature are very different. In fact, I think that is where people have bought into them more. I'd very interested to see how they do with Latin next season...they really struggled with it in 2011-2012, but I think they can make it work much better this time around.

well, when someone's score getting increasing rapidly, you always tend to find some reason, at least for me, not saying i believed it.

Their score increased on TES, not PCS. Their PCS has been in the 56 range since the GP series. The PCS went up slightly (from 56.18 to 56.83) but most of the point differential is in TES, which is cause they got a level 4 on a step sequence and better +GOE on some of their elements.

 

[Barb]

If we are talking strictly as regards the FD I strongly disagree, I think that the improvements made by P/C in this department were huge.
If we are talking about the competition overall I agree, since P/C kind of messed up the SD at Europeans.

I am talking only about FD.

 

[Mirunna]

I am talking only about FD.

Then we agree to disagree

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

People can have range but not depth. Some people can have depth but no range. The best is to strive for both, but if you've been competing for a long time, then people don't believe you have range anymore. It's like when a famous actor (I think Laurence Olivier) told Daniel Day Lewis to not take on too many roles because actors only have 30 faces and taking on too many projects will make the audience believe you no longer have range. If one has a distinct style that's memorable and captivating, then they can also be accused of not having range. When one doesn't have a distinct style, but tries to experiment with different ones, they'll be accused of not having an identity and being lost.