State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[drivingmissdaisy]

But I disagree that you can't force it. The thing is there is talent in the US ranks right now but it's not being pushed enough. If the talent that's already available were pushed harder we might end up with some stronger skaters. With only two spots next year maybe Ashley, Gracie, Polina, Karen, Mariah, Mirai, Courtney, etc. will step up their game. If you want to go to the Olympics you need to be top 2...there isn't a cushion for a 3rd spot which means even the top women will have to be on top of their game. Having that knowledge should force them to work harder and focus more.

I don't know what Russia is doing to get such depth. Any of the top 5 from Russian nationals would have won US nationals if the skaters were judged as international panels would have. Every one of our skaters regularly has meltdowns in competition, except Ashley. Maybe our athletes just lack the work ethic and killer instinct needed. Our most talented woman showed up to every event this season undertrained, while our national champion has failed to post a single international competition score in her career that would have ranked in the top 12 at worlds last year. Meanwhile, in Russia you have two Olympic champions and a world champion who haven't even been able to medal at nationals following their triumphs.

 

[andromache]

I don't know what Russia is doing to get such depth. Any of the top 5 from Russian nationals would have won US nationals if the skaters were judged as international panels would have. Every one of our skaters regularly has meltdowns in competition, except Ashley. Maybe our athletes just lack the work ethic and killer instinct needed. Our most talented woman showed up to every event this season undertrained, while our national champion has failed to post a single international competition score in her career that would have ranked in the top 12 at worlds last year. Meanwhile, in Russia you have two Olympic champions and a world champion who haven't even been able to medal at nationals following their triumphs.

Culture of getting lots of kids involved in the sport young, scouting, recruiting, training them like adult athletes from a young age. That just doesn't happen here in figure skating, though you'll see it in sports like basketball, football, baseball, etc. But does it lead to burnout? Yulia, Adelina (if they competed), and Liza (though Liza not as much) would've placed significantly higher at US Nationals than at their own with their typical performances, but aside from potentially Liza, wouldn't have podiumed.

And maybe US girls aren't pushed as hard? But physical health-wise, Ashley, Gracie, Mirai, Mariah, Courtney - have all been able to skate/compete into their 20s with very minor interruptions due to an overall lack of injuries, or only having minor ones (Gracie withdrawing from GPF in 2014, for example). Then again, our younger girls, Tessa, Karen, and Polina, have all struggled with more injuries than the older girls (also Caroline Zhang.)

Adelina was sidelined after the Olympics due to injury (and whether or not her current "hiatus" is due to lack of motivation or persisting physical annoyances, idk), and Yulia has also struggled with injury this season. Anna has had troubles, but nothing that's kept her down for long. Will the current girls also run into more problems as their bodies finish maturing? I'm just speculating - not claiming that there is some sort of pattern of injury or anything.

And what about Liza's obvious burnout? Would she skate better under a less cutthroat system? The pressure of being number one seems much, much more extreme in Russia than in the US - having to constantly look over your shoulder might motivate some (Evgenia) but be much tougher for others (Liza). Then again, if Liza was a US lady, who is to say her family would've even been able to pay for her training or she would've moved to an elite coach at a young enough age for her to even be somewhat competitive internationally?

 

[moriel]

Well, most russian girls would probably have big troubles affording the training if they lived in USA.
I´ve read in an interview that Liza, when first moved with her mom to St Petersburg, first lived in a flat provided by some sort of charity.
Adelina's sister has health issues - her family isn´t rich either, and they would most likely have to chose between health of one child and an expensive sport for the other one in USA.

 

[topaz emerald]

It could be possible to discuss this statement if they not only worked harder but showed results. So far this work produced very few clean back to back skates from any of them but Ashley. Gracie in fact just had to skate clean once to win - that's how judges wanted to help her last season. She could not. Polina? May be. I liked her in Sochi. But she was no one then. And the biggest blow to her (which I guess is the reason for her lack of motivation since then) was last year Nationals. Nothing to do with double standards internationally.

sorry, I don't agree.

 

[lyndichee]

Well, most russian girls would probably have big troubles affording the training if they lived in USA.
I´ve read in an interview that Liza, when first moved with her mom to St Petersburg, first lived in a flat provided by some sort of charity.
Adelina's sister has health issues - her family isn´t rich either, and they would most likely have to chose between health of one child and an expensive sport for the other one in USA.

Yulia's was raised by her single mother as well.

Ashley Wagner had to work retail before to pay for her skating. It is a very difficult sport to pay for; many American skaters have used GoFundMe in order to pay for their costs. Caroline Zhang and probably more skaters coach in their spare time to earn money to cover training costs.

 

[andromache]

As an American and a compassionate-yet-rational human being, I like that our government/federation/higher level whatevers don't fund the sporting careers of children. There's nothing wrong with having a relatively normal childhood, going to public school, pursuing whatever sport they want for fun as a hobby and for overall physical fitness/health. Lots of kids get to play sports through public school, or can get involved in low-cost team sports in their communities. And you don't have to be talented or rich to participate, though a few sports (really only popular team sports like football and basketball) have the infrastructure where if you do happen to be exceptional, you can get discovered through initial participation in low-cost school/community sports.

It kind of sucks that if you're a little American kid and your dream is to win OGM in figure skating, if your parents are poor, well, sucks to be you. But let's at least help all these poor kids with unattainable sports dreams get a good education and give them the opportunities for social mobility in order to pursue a more attainable career path instead of bemoaning the fact that they can't pursue their unattainable dream, right? (Not that anyone here is doing that, I'm just rambling.)

As a compassionate-yet-rational human being, I'm glad that skating funding programs like Skating in Harlem are helping create accessibility to skating as a hobby for lots of kids, rather than singling out the talented few to help them pursue careers.

As a skating fan, it kind of sucks.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't think we have to have a government funded program to produce great skaters. We have a man who is better than any current Russian skater, and we've had women in the past do great things. I have no doubt that if Michelle needed the technical arsenal to compete with the women today, she would have attained it. Gracie, Mirai, and Courtney have shown that they too can compete with the best women if they could only compete like they practice. Our one rock-solid competitor just does not have the solid 3-3s needed to win the biggest events; a lot of the other women do, but are prone to meltdowns. As a fan, it's very hard to watch.

 

[topaz emerald]

I just watched Mariah Bell's long program practice run through, and it gave me chills! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MS6g88cJrk

 

[fallingsk8er]

Just watched Mirai Nagasu's free skate. She's skating great late in the season just like last year. Nailed that long program with clean jumps. She's going to be in the mix at worlds if she skates like that.


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[FTnoona]

Just watched Mirai Nagasu's free skate. She's skating great late in the season just like last year. Nailed that long program with clean jumps. She's going to be in the mix at worlds if she skates like that.


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Hopefully we will see her at worlds next season. After the SP at Autumn Classic, I thought the judges were ready to go with her again. Then she fizzled during the GP :sad21:

 

[bekalc]

As an American and a compassionate-yet-rational human being, I like that our government/federation/higher level whatevers don't fund the sporting careers of children. There's nothing wrong with having a relatively normal childhood, going to public school, pursuing whatever sport they want for fun as a hobby and for overall physical fitness/health. Lots of kids get to play sports through public school, or can get involved in low-cost team sports in their communities. And you don't have to be talented or rich to participate, though a few sports (really only popular team sports like football and basketball) have the infrastructure where if you do happen to be exceptional, you can get discovered through initial participation in low-cost school/community sports.

It kind of sucks that if you're a little American kid and your dream is to win OGM in figure skating, if your parents are poor, well, sucks to be you. But let's at least help all these poor kids with unattainable sports dreams get a good education and give them the opportunities for social mobility in order to pursue a more attainable career path instead of bemoaning the fact that they can't pursue their unattainable dream, right? (Not that anyone here is doing that, I'm just rambling.)

As a compassionate-yet-rational human being, I'm glad that skating funding programs like Skating in Harlem are helping create accessibility to skating as a hobby for lots of kids, rather than singling out the talented few to help them pursue careers.

As a skating fan, it kind of sucks.

As a compassionate person, I think it would do our society some good to help children succeed. And I think it should be based on merit-i.e talent along with how progressing. Not just in sports but in the arts too.

So many young children especially in the inner cities have very little. This could help the kids learn hard work, discipline, develop some role models, things that can translate into success in other areas of life.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the freaking world. Its ridiculous. Imagine if we started funding programs to help kids find their areas of talent, and kept kids-of the street.

And Michelle Kwan didn't the owner of New York Times help her funding when she was young. Sure the US might get luck and get a kid whose parents have money who is super talented.

But I think giving opportunities based on talent is the way to go.

 

[andromache]

I'm not opposed to rewarding talented kids, but I think encouraging skating as a hobby/pursuit/non-career for MANY poor kids is more important than only allowing a few talented poor kids to benefit.

 

[bekalc]

I'm not opposed to rewarding talented kids, but I think encouraging skating as a hobby/pursuit/non-career for MANY poor kids is more important than only allowing a few talented poor kids to benefit.

What many young poor kids need at not hobbies. So much as opportunities to develop for the future. Hope. That means helping these kids find their nitch whether it be a vocational job (why we don't train for those anymore). I am not opposed to allowing for hobbies and that can keep kids of the street. But what many so very much need is overall development.

The Russian program a lot of those kids also trained to be coaches and were given classes towards. The current world Champion's coach who is coached a lot of Russian's young talent-never had a huge success as an international skater. but is successful as a coach.


We are doing a really poor job helping kids in poor areas get out of poverty. And that should be the main focus. I am not against programs that help develop hobbies, but I think the focus should be helping the under privileged develop skills than can translate to success later in life.

And of course if we were to fund sports/art programs more. I would insist that included in that is also some kind of vocational/educational training as well. For the future.

 

[andromache]

What many young poor kids need at not hobbies. So much as opportunities to develop for the future. Hope. That means helping these kids find their nitch whether it be a vocational job (why we don't train for those anymore). I am not opposed to allowing for hobbies and that can keep kids of the street. But what many so very much need is overall development.

The Russian program a lot of those kids also trained to be coaches and were given classes towards. The current world Champion's coach who is coached a lot of Russian's young talent-never had a huge success as an international skater. but is successful as a coach.


We are doing a really poor job helping kids in poor areas get out of poverty. And that should be the main focus. I am not against programs that help develop hobbies, but I think the focus should be helping the under privileged develop skills than can translate to success later in life.

And of course if we were to fund sports/art programs more. I would insist that included in that is also some kind of vocational/educational training as well. For the future.

Maybe hobby doesn't have the right connotation...because I do 100% agree. Pursuing a sport as a hobby (i.e. not full time) can totally develop all skills to translate into any kind of success later in life. But I don't want a system that tells poor kids that if they aren't talented at something that they can't pursue it as a hobby; even if you never get a double jump, you're still getting a lot out of it.

 

[bekalc]

Maybe hobby doesn't have the right connotation...because I do 100% agree. Pursuing a sport as a hobby (i.e. not full time) can totally develop all skills to translate into any kind of success later in life. But I don't want a system that tells poor kids that if they aren't talented at something that they can't pursue it as a hobby; even if you never get a double jump, you're still getting a lot out of it.

Yes. But do you really think, it should be the same amount of funding for someone who skates for fun as someone whose really learning. And its probably not that expensive to skate as hobby funding wise.

 

[mrrice]

I'm not opposed to rewarding talented kids, but I think encouraging skating as a hobby/pursuit/non-career for MANY poor kids is more important than only allowing a few talented poor kids to benefit.

I agree with this. However, it is a very difficult and expensive sport to do just for recreational purposes. The fact that you can play basketball, football, soccer, and baseball. If 1 person has a ball, EVERYONE gets to play. Figure skating becomes expensive because each person has to pay for their skates, each time they go to the rink. You can buy a baseball and use the same one for years without it costing a penny. You can't play hockey unless every player has an expensive pair of skates.

When I started skating, the thing that really bothered me was that the rental skates always felt different because you never got the same pair twice. I finally got a pair but, that may not be an option for an inner city child. Lastly, as pretty as skating is, it is not for the weak......I learned to skate in Santa Barbara, Ca. it doesn't get cold there. My first time, I was so cold and I also didn't wear gloves which was a BIG mistake and something that several people forget when they first go skating. This makes falling even worse. For most people in warm climates, skating just isn't fun because it takes a while to get good at it and it's too expensive to get good. I hope that made sense.

 

[icellist]

I just rewatched the ladies medalist and am even more certain now that Mirai should've won the silver over Gabby. How did Gabby's mistakes get her such high PCS compared to Mirai's?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I just rewatched the ladies medalist and am even more certain now that Mirai should've won the silver over Gabby. How did Gabby's mistakes get her such high PCS compared to Mirai's?

Did you watch the SP's too?

 

[mrrice]

Ok, here in Ca. This event doesn't start until 11:30am. I'll have to wait until I see the performances to go into detail but, after looking at Karen's scores, I think the US would be wise to consider sending Mirai to Worlds. Karen has very little experience as an international senior and with the strength of the Russian, Canadian, and Japanese skaters, I am truly worried about keeping our 3rd spot.

 

[icellist]

Did you watch the SP's too?

Yes, and just by the number of mistakes (Mirai's fall in SP) compared to Gabby's pop, step-out, and bad spin entry. Gabby performed her FS well during the GP but did not warrant the PCS because you could see her getting slightly flustered by mistakes.